HB2, North Carolina mandate to hate homosexuals.

originally posted by: Freija

Are all trans people the same? Clearly not. Do I think this whole thing is way more complicated than people can understand or want to understand? Absolutely, but I don't have all the answers nor the inclination to involve myself in the debate that some trans women are more trans than others or more "woman" than others.

You say that, then basically call the entire State of NC backwards because most have the same confusion you admit to.

It's a shame tolerance isn't one of those qualities you push.....oh wait.

Why is it insulting to say that someone who is transgender has a mental issue? It isn't saying they are crazy. Its merely observing the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria that led to gender reassignment as a treatment.

I can completely get behind the notion of "they were born this way" in the context of there being a self perception that is not typical among the rest of the human population. What I have a hard time with is, "they were born this way" in the context of it being expected to be seen as rational.

In the same way a non-GD person should be understanding of the mindset that gets a person to gender reassignment, someone who undergoes such should be understanding of people who just cannot get their heads around it. It isn't a typical behavior.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That is like saying that intersex people have mental issues.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That is like saying that intersex people have mental issues.

When its a diagnosis in the DSM, it is not an untrue statement.

But its not psychosis. Hell, i get the blues during the winter. That's called "Seasonal Affective Depression" (or one of its corrolaries). That is a "mental issue", and it isn't insulting to have it said to me.

But to the average joe, the thought of sexual reassignment is wholly foreign and irrational. People have a hard time understanding any thinking that deviates from what they are familiar with. If we spend all our time being offended, I think the defensive reaction it will create will continue to shut down any kind of attempt of mutual understanding.

Its not like I need to "get it". I already do. But good people I know who don't would be called a "bigot", and I just don't think that is fair.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Why is it insulting to say that someone who is transgender has a mental issue? It isn't saying they are crazy. Its merely observing the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria that led to gender reassignment as a treatment..

Mental issues or emotional issues? Figured we needed some guidelines.

What Is Mental Health? The state of your mental health involves successful cognitive thinking, or the ability to stay focused with sustained, divided and selective attention, and the capability to process information, store information in our long-term memory, the ability to understand what we hear and see, along with the function of logical processing and reasoning. Additionally, it involves volitional reasoning, or the ability to make a conscious choice or a reasonable decision through willful determination.

What is Emotional Health? One useful and positive definition of emotional health might be the capability to express all of your emotions in an appropriate way. This definition is tricky though, in that a two-year-old might run the gamut of all different types of emotions, which although might be normal for them, is totally inappropriate for an adult. Typically, a good definition of optimal emotional health is positive management and an expression of your emotional actions and reactions void of any unhealthy stress or depression. www.selfgrowth.com...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Why is it insulting to say that someone who is transgender has a mental issue? It isn't saying they are crazy. Its merely observing the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria that led to gender reassignment as a treatment.

Because its like saying you have mental issues if you're born with green eyes, but your brain tells you you have blue eyes (very simplistic).

That's not a mental issue. Its a birthright. You were born with your brain telling you you have blue eyes. From your brain you see blue eyes.

Is it a diagnosis or a recognition that your brain is dominate in defining who you are?

I personally do not like the word diagnosis used in connection with Gender Dysphoria. Its not an illness.

a reply to: Annee

I think that is another problem that, at some point, will have to be overcome. To a rationalist, it takes quite a bit of effort to believe that a person can be what they perceive themselves to be. If i look at you and see green eyes, your eyes are green. The only dispute you can have would that the wavelength isn't in the correct range, but the end result is scientifically measurable.

While there are animals that change gender (frogs, etc), humans are fairly unique in the animal world in that we choose to alter our outward expression of gender.

Regardless, I think that much more traction could be gained by growing skin thick enough to actually withstand what it'll take to find a mutual understanding. For all parties involved. I mean, I (as someone who is fairly vocal in support of LGBT issues) end up ont he short end of the stick quite often because while arguing on behalf of LGBT people I invariably say something that offends someone. Its very off putting, and doesn't really endear people to the conversation.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

I think that is another problem that, at some point, will have to be overcome. To a rationalist, it takes quite a bit of effort to believe that a person can be what they perceive themselves to be.

I would not use the word perceive.

I've been fascinated by the newish technology of brain scans for several years. Reading stuff elsewhere then ATS.

I'm fascinated by brain science in general. I'm one who believes we are born who we are. That the brain has more to do with who we are then science once thought.

I realize not everyone is going to accept that. But, it is my position.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Regardless, I think that much more traction could be gained by growing skin thick enough to actually withstand what it'll take to find a mutual understanding. For all parties involved. I mean, I (as someone who is fairly vocal in support of LGBT issues) end up ont he short end of the stick quite often because while arguing on behalf of LGBT people I invariably say something that offends someone. Its very off putting, and doesn't really endear people to the conversation.

I do understand your position - - - and know you are accepting and open minded.

Even though some concepts are difficult to fully wrap your brain around. It really is asking a lot.

Speaking of mouth breather... Exactly what rights do you think you have had taken from you? The right to free Enterprise? nope. The right to travel freely anywhere in the US and conduct business? Nope. The right to a decent education and healthcare? Nope. The right to not be discriminated while looking for employment? Nope. You literally posses every right a straight individual possesses. However you do believe its your right to walk into a known Christian business, where people have busted their ass to make successful and destroy it because you're looking for an easy law suit. You could have easily left a bad review and gone elsewhere for service but you didn't. Why is it people like you think its your right to force others to do business or even interact with you when they clearly do not agree with your lifestyle? What, because you said so? pfffft. a reply to: Rocker2013

originally posted by: network dude
You say that, then basically call the entire State of NC backwards because most have the same confusion you admit to.

It's a shame tolerance isn't one of those qualities you push.....oh wait.

It isn't a matter of "confusion" but one more of stepping on toes and political correctness. Do I have my own feelings and opinions or feel there are some grey areas in all of this? Certainly but dare I tread away from the party line or acknowledge there may be some middle ground, ambiguities or make slight concessions to the arguments of someone like Teikiatsu to possibly foster further discussion, you can't just go "Ah ha" and throw the baby out with the bath water or point to some fatal flaw in the logic of all this.

HB2 is insidious and discriminatory beyond just the bathroom issue. Looking specifically at the bathroom issue as it may apply to situations involving nudity (which taking a pee doesn't), it is complicated and I admit it is difficult to draw the line and I may have a hard time seeing through my own bias as a female that isn't thrilled at prospect of penises in the shower next to me either (although I've seen plenty - my ex-husband even has one). Unquestionably, I wouldn't be particularly comfortable with that but is it a realistic scenario? The broad definition of transgender as an umbrella term certainly does have its limitations and drawbacks but I think even bringing up the issues that I have indicates a willingness to explore perspectives different from my own.

I also don't believe that a transgender woman that lives full-time as such, is under medical care and on hormones is going to be parading around naked with dangly bits exposed except possibly within the context of "tranny porn" cishet men are so fond of and where this whole "chicks with dicks" visualization comes from in the first place. I know kids aren't going to be doing this - most teenagers don't want to leave the house with a pimple let alone expose something to them that is a very private and a very embarrassing disfiguring deformity or birth defect.

Allow me some time to do some research and reach out to a few of my contacts. Let me review the position of the "Transgender Borg Collective" and see what their position is on this because I honestly don't know exactly what is being asked for in terms of acceptance where nudity might be involved. At any rate, I think this is more complex than either side wants to admit, I'll concede to that and that blanket policies probably aren't beneficial to either side of the argument.

Nice try, network dude but regardless of the bath/locker room transgender aspect, North Carolina's law is still discriminatory and prejudicial.

a reply to: AVtech34

If you serve to the public, you serve the public. It's that simple.

a reply to: Deaf Alien no, it really isn't. What the gaystapo are doing is predatory, militant attacks on businesses for profit. The funny thing is, Muslim owned shops out right refuse service to homosexuals and not a damn thing in the news about it.

originally posted by: AVtech34
The funny thing is, Muslim owned shops out right refuse service to homosexuals and not a damn thing in the news about it.

Can you prove this?

louderwithcrowder.com...a reply to: kaylaluv

Its literally the first search on Google. I'm not doing the rest of your research for you.


Even though it may be seen as satire, they refused. regardless if he was trying to only prove a point.

originally posted by: AVtech34
louderwithcrowder.com...a reply to: kaylaluv

Its literally the first search on Google. I'm not doing the rest of your research for you.

Even though it may be seen as satire, they refused. regardless if he was trying to only prove a point.

Oh, that one.

Did he refuse to bake the cake?

He is not required to decorate or put writing on a cake that he finds offensive.

a reply to: AVtech34

We already know about that guy.

a reply to: Annee But its not ok for a Christian run business to do? Its ok that you people hate Crowder, it makes his little videos that much more entertaining.

i wonder if you can have a democratic baker....only bakes wedding cakes if democrats are getting married, republicans?...no way

originally posted by: AVtech34
a reply to: Annee But its not ok for a Christian run business to do? Its ok that you people hate Crowder, it makes his little videos that much more entertaining.

If state has an anti-discrimination law including LGBT

If a gay couples orders a standard cake they would sell to a straight couple - - they are required to do it.

They are not required to do special decorations or wording they find offensive.