Why is God's plan so inefficient?

Matthew 7
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Pretty much all Christians believe that they have the right answer while everyone else who holds different beliefs is wrong.

If only a few find the way then how are the billions upon billions of Christians throughout history considered "few" when they died believing Jesus died for their sins? That's a pretty big number, but maybe that's few when compared to the majority who didn't make it? This leads me to my main question:

If only a few people make it to heaven while the vast majority go to hell, why did God come up with a way to salvation that he knew infinitely beforehand would wind up sending billions or even trillions of people to hell, people he supposedly loves more than anything else?

Why did God choose such an inefficient and ineffectual way to salvation? Why would he do this knowing full well the consequences of his choice? Why would he choose faith, something intangible and unprovable, knowing the majority of people who will ever live won't be able to come to grips with such a system?

Doesn't God want everyone to be saved? If so, does the majority going to hell mean that he does not get what he wants which is salvation for everyone? This scenario reminds me of the "God making a rock so big..." paradox. The only way past this paradox for believers is blind faith, which brings us full circle back to the original question, why faith over something far more effective?

Thoughts?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

why faith over something far more effective?

Like Love, and caring for others?

The gospels seem to point in that direction... wouldn't you say?

a reply to: Akragon

Absolutely.

The world is lacking in true love for our fellow human beings and other life. I'd say love , true love, is a pretty narrow gate in this world full of hate.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

From my point of view:

Faith can point you in the right direction to follow the golden rule but it is the following of golden rule that makes you follow golden path that both Yeshua and Buddha taught.

The spiritual realm could be more persuasive and put other level feedback here so that the backlash of doing something against the golden rule becomes more direct. But that would mean ignorance would not be allowed on that level.

That does not suit an exam like environment where testing is one if the purposes.

But I am probably not the one you want to reach with this opening statement. The spiritual I have experienced do not care about "human religion clothing" and see what is within.

I hope you are happy in the bliss.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Because it is a made up story, created by men, for the purpose of controlling the masses.

Nothing more.

a reply to: Sargeras

one could also argue that "god" created a system to "save" the ones that see right thru the bull#...
and later on invented "jezus" to calm down the flock, that is willfully ignorant.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Akragon

Absolutely.

The world is lacking in true love for our fellow human beings and other life. I'd say love , true love, is a pretty narrow gate in this world full of hate.

Yep. Much easer to puff up with pride, hate, revenge, greed, thats what is expected of us. If you don't theres something 'wrong' with you. How difficult it is to be humble, walk away from a fight, forgive those that do us wrong.

Let it go….

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

god only loves u if u do his bidding... sounds like a loving being to me.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Most religions seem illogical to me.

I see the physical world as a classroom with karma and reincarnation being keys to being trained and given opportunities to experience different aspects of humanity over many lifetimes.

Are you attempting to point out the logical flaws within the Christian world view? What is your reason for this I wonder?

Maybe hell is reincarnation and we have to do another 80 yrs of tests.

Or maybe people aren't enforcing slavery or burning those outside Israel enough?

Great question.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Why did God choose such an inefficient and ineffectual way to salvation?

Have no fear, Brother.

You are in attendance at a very prestigious "school." There is nothing to experience here except for a single decision, and that's whether you perform, throughout your incarnation, service to yourself, or service to others.

In my opinion, there's no such thing as salvation; you are ONE - and that ONE never ceases to exist.

Inefficient in whose economy? Yours?

Maybe your economy and God's economy don't calculate efficiency the same way. In that case, God's way would be right and yours wrong because He is God.

Shut off the lights on your way out.

a reply to: incoserv

lol, thanks for a good laugh

God Despises A Coward..........
Written in the book of revelation.

Why?????????

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'm having trouble with your post...

At first you are asking a lot of questions. After contemplating them, I was going to ask you, "Why are you asking?" But asking what?

There is a disconnect between your opening quote and then your original question.

This made me look at some of your other posts and I think you are not really asking anything of anyone:

The bible is an allegorical commentary on the human condition, not a literal history book. I think it's time we start looking at the Holy books (whichever they are) from a very personal viewpoint. Only when you internalize the narrative are you able to decipher its true meaning.

So, where do we go from here? I think your own answer was the best.

originally posted by: TheBwaap
a reply to: incoserv

lol, thanks for a good laugh

Any time.

You know I'm right, though.

The creator gets to make the rules. His creation, His rules, His economy, His way. Anybody got a problem with that, they can take it up with the creator. I hope they let me know how that goes for them.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Have you actually tried asking Him or are you just yelling at the rest of us?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If only a few people make it to heaven while the vast majority go to hell, why did God come up with a way to salvation that he knew infinitely beforehand would wind up sending billions or even trillions of people to hell, people he supposedly loves more than anything else?

Without engaging in the the numerous and insurmountable logical impossiblities required for any God to exist, I find it amusing that religious people often claim any people have gone to heaven at all, when the bible itself teaches that noone goes to heaven until the second coming.

Everyone who has died is waiting in hades, according to scripture, not heaven or hell. They will be judged and their final destination decided when Jesus finally comes back, not before.

An amusing example of people not knowing what the hell they are talking about, even when they claim to be talking about the "one absolute truth".

Doesn't God want everyone to be saved? If so, does the majority going to hell mean that he does not get what he wants which is salvation for everyone? This scenario reminds me of the "God making a rock so big..." paradox. The only way past this paradox for believers is blind faith, which brings us full circle back to the original question, why faith over something far more effective?

He wants everyone to be saved, but only if they are willing to put on a tie and go down to church on Sunday, blindly follow those people who are claimed to speak for Him, and accept that He exists in the first place. So He, in His infinite wisdom, wants everyone to blindly follow those who calim to speak for Him, accept that He exists based on millenia-old writings, and without any subsequent input from Him at all... It's a ridiculous paradox and I agree, any attempts to reconcile it with reason only leads to circular, headache-inducing illogic.

Why is the U.S. so damn religious anyway? It was founded as a secular country, not a Christian one...

a reply to: Metallicus

very nice, I have similar opinion also about karma at least...

But what happens when you figure it out and get out of karma and the death and rebirth cycle?

well some old religions or philosophies are describing that and this is one of the parts of complete realization of our absolute nature. For instance first and all the others Buddhas invented many teachings how to achieve that or at least how to life your life in a way that you will get better one next time.
That kinda is general theme that is going on also in Zen, Bon, Tao, hinduism, etc... Who knows, maybe there is something to it?

Well anyway don't waste life, that is kinda the key point.
Learn to think good, talk good and be good.

Also gods may just be another type of beings in worlds which are more subtle than ours, and when they appear here for some reason they have "magical" powers due to ... dunno...maybe getting out of a human karmic cycle and learning a bit more of real nature hmm? or maybe they are beings who have gained a lot of good merit in previous lives and have a life experience of a god and are still in karmic circle? hmmm ?

interesting thoughts wouldn't you say?

So what is god's plan indeed?
well it depends...there are probably many gods just like humans : )

maybe some have a plan for earth but I think we ALL have free will and can only really choose to be true to one guy and "god".
to yourself.

well this are kinda just thoughts that came after I read your post. Just an opinion.

; )

well this is also an answer from me for the topic in general. Gods are many and maybe our beliefs combined with intent and emotional energy are feeding them somehow. So I would be very careful who and how I would worship.

But do we truly need god's assistance to advance spiritually?
are some gods playing like a game with us?
or even better do gods even WANT us to advance to their level?

guess what, I think there are some bad apples on every tree. : )

So good questions are also maybe this:
- what kinda god is in the old and new testament for all the bible lovers : ) ?
- what kinda gods are in other religions?
and the best one, for last:
- what about the religions which are not about gods but more about personal development?

these are more of a rhetorical questions.
But if anyone likes, please answer and share opinions...

a reply to: UniFinity

The problem I have with karma is that is makes no logical sense..

Do those who have significant misfortune occur to them in life deserve it for some unknown reason?

Did the millions of Jews put to death during WW2 have such a serious karmic imbalance that they simply 'had it coming'?

How can one know what their "karma balance" is at any given time? Why do bad things happen to good people? How is "karma" nothing more than faith based 'pat on the back' from the universe when you do good, and a metaphysical 'boot in the balls' when you do bad? How is it any different than the "God's myterious plan/will/work" that Christians like to bring up everytime something happens to a person or people, good or bad?

It all seems like a bunch of faith-based metaphysical rubbish with no basis in actual reality, and no basis for making any kind of predictions to me..

It seems that, like belief in God, the more vigorously people attempt to justify or defend a belief in karma the more abstract and irrational the idea becomes.. The arguments in favour of it seem to range from karma being so vague and undefined as to lose all material significance, to karma being so influential and specific as to be completely unresaonable and illogical...

I think of it as nothing more than a poetic expression of "do unto others...", and not really to be taken literally.