Original freemasonary corrupted, subverted?

a reply to: TerryDon79

Indeed, many knowledge was passed on/communicated through speech so it's no surprise we now end up with different meanings and even teachings. To my understanding the rituals should prevent this from happening, but still.
The same happened with the Bible and the Gnostic text which imo is more extreme, just look at modern Christianity.

It would interesting to know to what extend they were altered or what's the original meaning. It is also a probability that texts were deliberately changed and others were just forgotten.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I see so as far as your concerned there is no factual evidence that ancient masons were Gnostics ?

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: TerryDon79

I see so as far as your concerned there is no factual evidence that ancient masons were Gnostics ?

There is evidence that ancient masons were from varied religions.

a reply to: TerryDon79


A gnostic can never worship the demiurge, you would never find Yahweh displayed in pride of place in their lodge.

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: TerryDon79


A gnostic can never worship the demiurge, you would never find Yahweh displayed in pride of place in their lodge.

And what exactly does that have to do with freemasonry and ancient masons?

a reply to: intergalactic fire

Indeed, many knowledge was passed on/communicated through speech so it's no surprise we now end up with different meanings and even teachings. To my understanding the rituals should prevent this from happening, but still.

The way i see it, the problem isnt the rituals, its the people/personas who wants a "bigger" meaning to being a freemason.. Im pretty sure, some of them enjoy the fear and mystic it brings..

So they add their own stories, Cthulhu, and all of a sudden, its some weird s*** that shouldnt be in there.. Not mentioning any names, but you know who i am refering to..

a reply to: zinc12

I don't think Sethite is an accurate label, but there is plenty of evidence that before the early 1700s Masonic mythology was primarily Noachite, and that shifted as the Hiramic legend gained popularity.

originally posted by: AldarKose
a reply to: intergalactic fire

Indeed, many knowledge was passed on/communicated through speech so it's no surprise we now end up with different meanings and even teachings. To my understanding the rituals should prevent this from happening, but still.

The way i see it, the problem isnt the rituals, its the people/personas who wants a "bigger" meaning to being a freemason.. Im pretty sure, some of them enjoy the fear and mystic it brings..

So they add their own stories, Cthulhu, and all of a sudden, its some weird s*** that shouldnt be in there.. Not mentioning any names, but you know who i am refering to..

they don't teach humor in gypsy school? It's a shame you missed the joke by a good bit.

In modern masonry do they still teach the legend of how it was the children of Lamech (Cainites) who first wrote down the rudiments of the craft on two pillars before the flood or have they conveniently scrubbed that ?

The first civilization was that of Cain and his descendants (Cainites). They built the first city (Genesis 4:17), and together with it they developed an economy (Genesis 4:20), cultivated the arts (Genesis 4:21), and invented technology (Genesis 4:22). These are marks of a civilization.

The Gnostic lodges and the Kabbalistic lodges essentially teach the reverse of each other

Gnostics teach that the Demiurge is the grand deceiver and despise him
Kabbalists teach that YHWH is the true God and worship him
Gnostics teach that Cain was the first victim of the Demiurge
Kabbalists teach that Able was the first victim of Cain
Gnostics teach that the line of Cain are responsible for civilization
Kabbalists teach that the line of Seth was responsible for civilisation.

If then Sethite Kabbalistic lodges took over Cainite operative masonry you would see an attempt to remove aspects.

They would want to bring the origins of masonry forwards to the Temple of Solomon under the guidance of king Solomon and scrub its Canite origins.
They would want to attribute the creation of the Temple of Solomon to King Solomon the wise and present Hiram Abiff (descendent of tubal cain) as a simple workman rather then the one without which nothing could have been accomplished.
They would present King Solomon as the font knowledge rather then Hiram Abiff.
They would venerate YHWH and put that symbol held high in pride of place in the lodge, clearly something that a gnostic cainite lodge would ever do. In fact if a cainite lodge was to put YHWH anywhere it would be on the ground so you walkover it since to them he is a deceiver.

It is questionable that a gnostic lodge would ever transmit the secrets of masonry to YHWH worshippers so what you would end up with would be people using symbols originating in operative masonry but not knowing their true meaning ie the true secrets of the craft would be lost to them.

a reply to: network dude

You need someone to hold your hand when you walk the ladder?

I had a talk with someone today.. They actually said;" Use scientific literacy, which you are accustomed to. Use stories to explain, use art to visualize and foremost intrigue the reader into curiosity..
And i thought about it, and realized i can share a story about science without any spirituality...

I didnt take a any creed or vow, so i have no obligation to any institution than my own secularized state and i know which stories i can share and which i cant.. As long as they are scientific, without any ideals, be one with nature and one with the heavens..

The vows you take, is to defend something that is no longer an issue.. The message is humanity, always was, the messege isnt the problem its the man holding the message..

So enjoy my first story about the rose, but im gonna use a zodiac wheel, and parable it into a rose with the story.. since its not scientific..

Enjoy your day..

a reply to: zinc12
Freemasonry is not about preserving the bloodline of Cain or Seth. Nor is Freemasonry about Zionism.

a reply to: zinc12
I have read the old charges and nothing you say is right. It's all your assumption, it's conjecture.

a reply to: Rapha
That's assuming Freemasonry is dark today or that it ever was.

Anti-Masonry on the other hand has a nice dark history: www.travelingtemplar.com/2013/11/a-brief-history-of-anti-masonry.html

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Really, religious fundamentalists think we're bad. Despots, fascists, and tyrants think we're bad. It does speak for itself on that regard doesn't it.

a reply to: Rapha
It does say something to your character when you agree with the Nazis burning books.

a reply to: zinc12
It's very clear you are confused on the history of actual Freemasonry.

a reply to: zinc12

What if the real ancient Egyptians were the same as the Sitchin annunaki, or Sirians, and they made those human miners - and those were the Jews?

And lots in the bible about the lord doing this and that, it's actually about those aliens or angels passing on what is called freemasonry, to their creations?

And that is why there's so many lies about ancient Egypt?

a reply to: zinc12

"Gnostics teach that the Demiurge is the grand deceiver and despise him
Kabbalists teach that YHWH is the true God and worship him
Gnostics teach that Cain was the first victim of the Demiurge
Kabbalists teach that Able was the first victim of Cain
Gnostics teach that the line of Cain are responsible for civilization
Kabbalists teach that the line of Seth was responsible for civilisation. "

It might be that some of the annunaki, or elohim, wanted to wipe out their miners / genetically engineered humans. And some didn't. Maybe they were evil so they wanted to get rid of them, and maybe some of them hid some instead, so they wouldn't die, perhaps like in the flood story. Maybe they just wanted to get rid of them as some of the aliens had interbred with them (which is still a line in the bible, guess the conspiracy must have forgot to censor that one). So there might be aliens (terms here don't really mean anything) who taught the humans they saved one thing, and aliens that taught the humans they saved something else, plus in the meantime also aliens telling people that those other aliens are mad demi-urges who keep a deranged world going, since they may have kept their evil creations going.

Just speculation, but based also in lots of accounts of these kind of things.

a reply to: visitors

What lies are there about ancient Egypt?

a reply to: TerryDon79

What?! How can you be registered at a conspiracy forum and not know at least some about that?

originally posted by: visitors
a reply to: TerryDon79

What?! How can you be registered at a conspiracy forum and not know at least some about that?

the 2 have nothing to do with each other.

Now, what lies are there about ancient Egypt?

a reply to: TerryDon79

How do very well known of conspiracies regarding Egypt not to have to do with conspiracies?

You don't know that the Sphinx is way older than the usual false guesstimates claim? You haven't heard of the extensive underground complexes at Giza? That they keep trying to pretend are not there. I don't know if they use d-notices or similar, but lots of other countries broadcast it as normal news.

There's hieroglyphs of Egyptians wearing masonic aprons.

There's lies about everything. You don't actually fall for any of the mainstream stupidity surely? A healthy dose of Full Disclosure would fix that if so.

a reply to: visitors

So the usual rhetoric without any proof?

Gotcha!

Also, just because we're on a conspiracy site doesn't mean we have to believe every conspiracy.

originally posted by: visitors
There's hieroglyphs of Egyptians wearing masonic aprons.

Post one.

Wow. Based on the anti-Mason sentiments, I'm *really* missing something about my masonic career!

Here I was, enjoying my Wednesday eve's with a bunch of guys, having a drink and a laugh, trying to do some charitable work and making ourselves better people.

When actually, we seem to have a dark and hidden agenda, stemming from gassing people, burning books and God knows what else?

I must be missing a chapter in my blue book....