Leaving the Conservative movement after decades....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
So from your post, I can't tell if your a Sanders supporter or a Cruz guy? Both seem to use the same rhetoric in attacking Trump...

And there in lies your problem.

Even when someone tells you something straight up, you still can't tell what they mean.

Trump has basically told you that everyone in congress is a bought and paid for puppet of corporate special interest and he openly admits that he has bought his share of politicians over the years in order to get what he needs from them, making him the Puppeteer.

If your so against establishment politics, why would you vote for anyone who openly admits to being part of that process?

On another note, there may be a very good reason that the attacks on Trump all sound the same, despite coming from different sources.

It may just be because they're true.

a reply to: Flatfish

I find nothing straight up about your posts.

The thread was my disaffection and departure from the Republican agenda/trap. It is about a third party that is less divisive and more pragmatic to the current situation the U.S. faces. Largely due to our Federal Gov't.

Trump has been your target, no mention of your preferred candidate or party or the very concept of a third party.

Nothing but dump on Trump.
The attack is straight forward. The motive behind it is not even mentioned. Nor the thread.

I see Trump as a tool to that third party. Perhaps valid in his intent and perhaps not. No different from all the other candidates if your honest with yourself.

He has gone further than anyone thought, largely by tapping into the general disaffection with Washington politics.

I find myself forced to defend him as the degree of attacks and the absurdity of them mounts. That is precisely why his numbers grow. Thank you for re-enforcing his chances.


Third party, please...even better if either or both original parties follow the list of extinct....

P.S. So are Trump's attacks on the establishment. Very true. Therein lies YOUR problem, Mr. Establishment, rather than an honest appraisal of the insanity of the current political scene, you resort to attacking the attacker. The general public no longer buys it. At least a significant number don't and that number is growing....

Trump isn't the problem...you are.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Then do what he does...nothing.

Poor strawman took a good whack but objecting, protesting and running yourself is not the same as nothing.

Frankly, I suspect an ulterior motive, the continuance of the status quo....

Why would the status quo or change in a country I don't live in motivate me in any way?

It is interesting that after a few posts in general agreement that both parties are in a beyond reparable mess, The rest have targeted the subject of Trump rather than the overall point of the thread.

Trump has acted as a catalyst, without question. That momentum will continue with or without him, IMO.

Looking at the remaining potential candidates, I see no reason not to give Trump a chance. As an astute poster has mentioned, the chances of Trump being some dictator is virtually non-existent. Between the Dems and the Establishment Republicans, the man wouldn't have a fraction of the wiggle room accorded to Obama.

We could start a pool on how long he'd last before he was impeached. LOL.

Still, I acknowledge his results and stirring the doo doo and exposing the remainder for what they apparently are.

I would give him a chance. Either way the momentum to an alternative party somewhere in between the two 'poles' will emerge. I would welcome it.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
The rest have targeted the subject of Trump rather than the overall point of the thread.

Trump has acted as a catalyst, without question. That momentum will continue with or without him, IMO.

Maybe they see through Trump and don't agree with the importance you are bestowing upon him.

I would give him a chance. Either way the momentum to an alternative party somewhere in between the two 'poles' will emerge. I would welcome it.

This sounds rather sad from my POV. I am guatemalan and we had 14 parties postulate a candidate for president and here you are making a big deal about a third party.

Our last president and VP are in jail because the people acted and not because a third party's knight in shining armour rode in "exposing" what was already common knowledge.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Now you've got me wondering.....

Just out of curiosity, what is your definition of an establishment politician?

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: nwtrucker

Now you've got me wondering.....

Just out of curiosity, what is your definition of an establishment politician?

Someone who has utilized the 'system' for their advancement and, therefore, owes that 'establishment'. That pretty much covers all of them, but that's how low that arena seems to have plunged, from what I can see.

Yes variation exists, but for simplicity I lump them all into that 'trash bin'. I say why not? Every damn party or faction has betrayed my loyalty to one degree or another. My trash bin is full....

Worse, and not on a personal level, the current mess as a nation reflects pretty accurately that assessment.

I would think a benevolent dictatorship would hold the most promise, but that isn't going to occur. Trump would have little wiggle room and both parties would have impeachment papers drawn up the day he took office....LMAO.

At best, I hope a slowing of the down-spiral from him...at worse? Let the whole thing crash and burn....start over.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I can understand your feelings. Personally I became aware of politics when I was in the Army during Regan years. I became a disgruntled republican when Bush took that left turn into Iraq. What made things worse on a more personal level was being called unpatriotic that hated America because I knew Iraq was a mess but not our mess.

I still call myself a Republican. I don't hate democrats or label people with opposing views something derogatory because I think we are all U.S Citizens.

As for Trump. I have thought of giving him my vote simply because he will tear down a lot of curtains and piss off a lot of people. Hopefully piss off enough Citizens that changes will be made. I hope that more people will actually, in the words of Howard Beale, say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"

Maybe a mistake. But something has gotta change. I am a social moderate, fiscal conservative that does believe federal, state and local governments do have functions that serve the public. In this political environment I am an outcast to both political parties. There is no place for me.

So I am seriously considering Trump because he would definitely be an agitator that could seriously tear things down. It needs it in my humble opinion and it would be less ugly than a full blown revolution.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Like it or not, the new party is forming as we speak. Granted, it's motivated by a bunch of pissed-off people, but sobeit. It needs articulation. It is supported more on the right than the left, but has support across the political spectrum.

I've been predicting this for several years, ever since the extremes of the Tea Party became apparent.

The American public is rejecting conservatism in this form. There is no future for this right-wing sentiment. Younger voters are increasingly liberal, as seen by the statistics from at least the last two elections. Republicans are dying out slowly, but the more right-wing are dying out even faster.

The Tea Party (and the more extreme fascist elements Trump embodies) are the last desperate gasps of a more fundamentalist political ideology which is being rejected by American society. It's only louder now because they're increasingly under threat and becoming increasingly desperate.

Numerous things point to the fact that Conservative politics is on the decline, and the more extreme right-wing is now an endangered species, although a more extreme and focussed bunch:

Younger voters rejecting these attitudes across the country.
Evangelical Christianity is all but dead.
Legislation battles across the nation, being won by Liberal attitudes.
Government deems right-wing extremism to be more of a threat than Daesh.
Church attendance stats are the lowest they have ever been.
Right-wing rhetoric is becoming louder and more desperate.
Republican party distancing themselves from Trump.

The Republican party is dead unless they separate themselves from the radical Tea Party extremist fringe. It's a loud and damaging noise affecting a mainstream party and dragging it down with them. The only option is for the party to split.

This is what will happen in the near future:

Republicans will lose this year.
Several senior Republicans will either leave politics entirely, or switch to Dem.
Extremist right-wing acts will increase.
The movement against right-wing attitudes will grow.

Ultimately, a new third party will be born. You'll have the Democrats, the Republicans, and a third extreme right-wing party.
There's an unlikely chance the Republican "brand" will become the right-wing party and normal Conservatives will form another outside of it, but I doubt that will happen.

To be honest, this is the best outcome, and it's pretty much inevitable. This will result in the Dems maintaining a dominant position in politics while the Conservatives and the right-wing extreme fight amongst each other for support. The Dems will be the biggest, then the Conservatives, then the extremists.

This of course will mean that Conservative influence is greatly diminished.

And before anyone says it, this is not some conspiracy, some unfair situation, some "unconstitutional" scenario. This is all a direct result of changing attitudes in the US, and the failure of the Republican party to evolve and focus on the issues the nation wants politicians to focus on. This is what happens in a democratic system ( and yes, a Constitutional Republic IS STILL a democratic system, before you try to claim otherwise).

The Republicans have done this to themselves with their moralistic nonsense. If they had abandoned the religious, the dictatorial, the notions of superiority and the desperation to control people's lives (while hypocritically ranting constantly about the Constitution, when it suits them) they wouldn't now be in this mess of radical noise.

originally posted by: Terminal1
As for Trump. I have thought of giving him my vote simply because he will tear down a lot of curtains and piss off a lot of people. Hopefully piss off enough Citizens that changes will be made. I hope that more people will actually, in the words of Howard Beale, say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"

Maybe a mistake. But something has gotta change.

I would urge you to reconsider.
It's not bombastic nonsense to state that Germany did exactly the same thing in the 1930's. They were seeking an "outsider", someone "passionate" and "honest". They got Hitler.

And really, you're thinking of voting for a man who has publicly stated that he would destroy press freedom in America, a man who openly supports violence against those with a differing political opinion, a man who blames a racial group and a religious group for all America's problems, a man who has not actually explained how he would "make America great again", while repeating that over and over...

I understand people being disillusioned with politics, but voting for such an insanely dangerous and ignorant politician just because you want a little excitement is not a rational thing to do, especially not when we all understand history.

When you have all relevant thinkers, all relevant political commentators, and even the party he claims to be a member of, calling him a fascist and a dangerous man, you cannot simply claim that it's an "exaggeration".

If Trump were to become POTUS, America would be facing a catastrophic period. If you have kids, you should vote for anyone else.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Where have all the true statesmen gone?

That is the real question because I believe we have none. Now I remember a lot of your posts and you have gained a bit of my respect. I just cannot vote for Clinton. Thing is, I would vote for Sanders. If I can't have Sanders then I feel it will need tearing down. Cruz? You kidding me?

Of course it has been a trait of mine so there is more than enough time for me to change my mind my friend.

At risk of adding yet another data point to Godwins Law, Hitler resemblances do not escape me. I am currently reading "Me in Kampf" on my Kindle and the mindsets are there just with different names.

Typing on my cell so apologize in advance

a reply to: nwtrucker

Good Post
I look at the parties as more divided along the lines of Globalist vs Pro Americans.
The Globalists pretty much own DC and even if Trump is the real deal, I don't see how he will get anything done when you have Globalists Corporate and Banking Revolving door insiders on the inside, Their Lobbyists on the Outside and then their puppet politicians to pass their policies so they can see what is in them.

I am watching with a bag of popcorn handy at all times

a reply to: nwtrucker

Not to rain on your parade but what is your opinion on Trump and the CFR Meetings?
I mean, if he has to meet and compromise with them, then we are back to square one.
The CFR should be shutdown not coddled to.

"Asked who he trusts on national security, Trump had warm words for three men with world views that differ from one another, and who diverge sharply on some key issues from Trump himself. They are former diplomat Richard Haass and retired U.S. Army officers Gen. Jack Keane and Col. Jack Jacobs."

(that's from a Reuters article and glp won't allow Reuters links, so copy and paste that quote into google to verify, but the Reuters article isn't the only source, the #1 source is Trump's mouth at the debates)


Richard Haass = Head of CFR
Gen. Jack Keane = CFR member
Col. Jack Jacobs = CFR member


the fact he named 3 CFR members he'd be happy to have in his cabinet, proves he is CFR

the fact that he said he has more respect for CFR head Richard Haass then he has for most people, proves he is CFR

a reply to: nwtrucker

What was that you said about people with a buzz on? Your hypocracy is showing. Poisoning your body with alcohol and posioming your mind with Trump's verbal vomit.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

Trump has acted as a catalyst, without question. That momentum will continue with or without him, IMO.

The wage stagnation and trade pacts were the catalyst and the election of Obama was round 1 to correct that.
Hope and Change Obama said
We are going to rout corruption out of DC and Wall Street.

Trump or Sanders is round 2

Either way it goes, the think tanks that run this country have the data and already know where people sit financially and politically before it even makes the media. Fact

They are also well prepared in advance to counteract that at the behest of powerful and wealthy people

There is a counter attack for every possible war against the US so it goes without saying, they also have counterattacks against anyone attacking their globalist agenda

originally posted by: Terminal1
a reply to: nwtrucker

As for Trump. I have thought of giving him my vote simply because he will tear down a lot of curtains and piss off a lot of people. Hopefully piss off enough Citizens that changes will be made. I hope that more people will actually, in the words of Howard Beale, say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"

My fear is Trump gets in office and plays the same theater antics Obama does to give the illusion he is doing something but behind the scenes it is business as usual

As an example, people pay attention more to what Obama says than what he has done, which is business as usual.
What he says are things like you did not build that, free stuff for everyone, free phones etc

While serving Wall Street Banks and Corporations behind the scenes their every wish.

Trump will play the theater script of being against the Crony Capitalists but claim his hands are tied.

I will not believe any of it unless NAFTA and the TPP or killed and all the Major Corporate and Banking Revolving Door insiders are kicked out of DC. Otherwise, it is business as usual

originally posted by: nwtrucker
It is interesting that after a few posts in general agreement that both parties are in a beyond reparable mess, The rest have targeted the subject of Trump rather than the overall point of the thread.

I think a lot of people think like me towards Trump. We like that he's actually calling out the problems in society, he's completely correct when he says what they are. His personal conduct makes him a poor messenger and candidate though. I for example really want to like Trump, he sees the problems and while I don't agree on all of his solutions he's going to make a good attempt to fix things, he atleast knows what's broken.

When I see his pathological issues with women though (Megyn Kelly, Rosie O Donnel, etc), when I see him call for violence against those who disagree with him, when I see him wanting to remove press protections, when I see him double down rather than retract when he's wrong, when I hear his reaction to the guy that said he has small hands (sending him an outline of his hands every few weeks, for 30 years now) I just can't support him.

The guy is completely and totally unhinged. He is not a stable individual and he should not be President.

a reply to: Terminal1


Very close to what I've through, at least politically. Militarily, I originally supported going into Iraq, if for no other reason than it just wasn't finished. Done. I decided it was a mistake in hind-site, after the fact.

When a society needs ID, it's time to move on....paraphrased-Robert Heinlein.

a reply to: Rocker2013


I was going to write a long-winded reply to your 'commercial'.

I refrain and simply say 'I disagree' with the majority of your post. You omit the utter hypocrisy of the Democrat Party with their super delegates and their 'extremism' which is the mainstream of that party and, unlike the Republican Party where the Tea Party is at the extreme end.

Having said that, I condemn both in this thread.

a reply to: nwtrucker

And you think that Trump somehow falls outside your definition of establishment politics?

If anything, he sounds like the literal embodiment of the definition you posted.

Whether or not you're willing to accept it, Bernie Sanders is the only non-establishment candidate currently running for POTUS.