Leaving the Conservative movement after decades....

a reply to: Flatfish


Normally, I wouldn't respond to a Sanders supporter, in this case, as others read these posts, I will rebut you 'points' then explain my reasoning for supporting Trump over the alternatives.

First is the playing field isn't even. Trump has been in 'business' a lot longer than he has been in politics. One enters business to succeed. To earn profits. To compete with others with the same goals in the same fields, one plays by the same rules.

Altruistic? NOT. Pragmatic? Absolutely. His stated goal, and I believe him, is to level that 'playing field' for America. He's lived where the rubber meets the road. I, for one, do not want a purely altruistic President. I want one that has ideals modified with pragmatic solutions.

Take your construction example. Construction contracts are awarded based on bids. The bidding company is responsible for who they hire as their winning bid is usually the lowest bid. They, in turn, hire sub-contractors who specialize in specific services, electricians, plumbers, etc. They
also hired their own staff. Trump is so far removed from who hires whom as to put your talking point into a near joke category. Sorry, that reality.

Even his tie production is in the hands of executives under him who are charged with the success of these ventures. Their job, their responsibility.

So he 'could' have been altruistic on these points....IF he had political designs at the time and would have failed in his business ventures, in all likelihood. He wouldn't have a track record that puts him in the Presidential completion.

So I will take a candidate that combines some altruism with a healthy dose of pragmatism over a career politician with almost zero empirical economic experience in the real world. That's the crowd the left has been feeding us for decades. The last decent one being JFK a long damn time ago.

If you think socialism is without vested interest, then you are blind. Virtually every social program entrenches the big Corporations even more at the expense of the little ones. Locks them in their power position to put it simply.

Yes, Sanders is receiving his donations from the grass roots, from what I can see. Not unlike Trump who is largely self-financed. Therefore neither is directly subsidized by vested interests. His freebies would bankrupt us. Period. I believe even TPTB know this fully well and it's the left that wants Sanders there for no other reason than to 'position' Hillary as more moderate of the two even though she's fully bought and paid for.

As for socialism, itself? Again, on a state to state level, fine. Vote for it or not. Let each state decide. That is the real diversity. No federal enforcement of those that don't want it. The is the real fascism.

Trump will change his business practices when gov't changes the rules of the game. He says his goal is to make those changes himself.

No contest. IMO.

I don't understand how anyone can believe a word he says, he is so transparent (as they all are). Makes me sad, but keep blowing your trumpet NW, it's your birthright.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
I don't understand how anyone can believe a word he says, he is so transparent (as they all are). Makes me sad, but keep blowing your trumpet NW, it's your birthright.

So what's your alternative? What would you do? Criticism without explanation is merely Hubris. Not even worthy of further acknowledgement.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
I don't understand how anyone can believe a word he says, he is so transparent (as they all are). Makes me sad, but keep blowing your trumpet NW, it's your birthright.

Same reason people bought the tripe Obama said.

Same reason people bought the tripe Clinton said.

Same reason people bought the tripe Sanders said.

Elections at their very core is voting for people with opinions that agree with our already preconceived opinions.

And Yep it is a very flawed system.

We are a nation for,of, and by opinion, and we ALL want to be RULED by them.

a reply to: nwtrucker

My alternative is to not believe the charlatans. Abstain, object, protest, run myself, but never jump from one to the other and follow another fools cause.

Your interest is not his interest. Period.

a reply to: neo96

I believe I said they all are. But thanks for jumping in and repeating it with more words

a reply to: nwtrucker

I think, I would write in Boeing, before I would vote for Trump inc, lol.

Lols, if you want to vote for a corporation, there are better ones than Trump!

a reply to: zazzafrazz


Ah, 'do' nothing. Other than dump on any effort to alter things as they stand. So you dump on a third/alternative party? You ignore Trump's valid or unintended further exposure of these charlatans? The obvious response from those pissed off with the current state of affairs.

As I posted earlier, if Trump proves out a charlatan/shill/ plant, it will prove out. The momentum that he has been a catalyst to will carry on without him.

Maybe your wrong. When have we ever seen this much counter effort to wipe Trump off the political map as we do now?

NEVER. All of them. Left, right, media, pundits, the works. If that doesn't peak your interest or give you pause for a second look, then I question your objectivity.


Change is acoming....already here. It may not last very long, but it is here. Contribute to that change. Trump is the straw on the camel's back. Only two possibilities, Trump rides it or gets bumped off. The camel is awake....

a reply to: nwtrucker

GO FOR IT.

I trust he brings you all you are looking for and deserve.

Trump is just the other side of the establishment. The worse one. The one that actually pulls the strings and buys government. The idea that this dude is going to save anything is ludicrous. "I know I've done all this stuff, but I'm different now"... when has anyone ever believed that? And from this dude??

On paper, he has so much going on that would normally be discrediting in the eyes of any conservative. Which means that if you take away what's on paper you're left with bravado, narcissism, his reality TV personality, one-liners, and the scariest & bigoted mob traits that Americans can have. And it's incredible that people can't see through what couldn't be any more blatant.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
The momentum that he has been a catalyst to will carry on without him.

What a perfect example of a cult of personality. Even if it is all a lie, he was still such an important part.

Seems to me that he caught the wave that was already in motion.

I have to agree with zazzafrazz, abstain, object, protest, run yourself but don't kid yourself that Trump was a catalyst for anything other than the made for TV version.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Look, either you practice what you preach or you don't, in which case you become a hypocrite.

Trump was not so removed from hiring his illegal construction workers as you would so gullibly believe. The courts found him guilty of "conspiring" to hire them, which implies that he new full well what was going on.. But hey, why let the truth get in the way?

Furthermore, you said you were against the very free trade deals that enable Trump & others to outsource their products, then you defend him for doing it because everyone else is doing it. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!

Trump is a con man and you're buying his con, hook, line & sinker.

You just go ahead and vote for Trump, just don't forget where you left your happy pants when you end up getting Hillary.

a reply to: ketsuko

That argument is total horse sh#t!

I guess, based on your business principles, we can excuse the big Wall St. banks who had no choice other than to make and bundle bad loans and sell them to unsuspecting investors that led up to the 2008 economic collapse and subsequent recession, because everyone else was doing it too.

GIVE ME A BREAK!

a reply to: daskakik


Then do what he does...nothing. If everyone is a charlatan, then what's the point of 'protest'? Might as well protest gravity or the seasons. To what purpose if there's no articulated purpose or goal?


Frankly, I suspect an ulterior motive, the continuance of the status quo....

Oh just wait for w completely failed Hillary presidency.

a reply to: Flatfish

I'm just telling you the way it works.

A lot of the local unions on the ground, especially in construction, are breaking for Trump. Why? Because they see it. They're in an untenable position. It is currently against the law to hire illegal labor under the table, but a lot of their competitors do it. And when their competitors do it, they can undercut bids because they aren't paying the cost of labor like the guys trying to do it right are.

Not only that, but when contractors look to undercut bids by using cheap, illegal labor, those workers are not union workers, so the locals aren't getting the dues.

The big national unions don't care so much, but the small locals are feeling it, so they look for the guy who claims he will stop the flood of cheap, illegal labor that undercuts their work and dues.

As was mentioned, this feeds all the way up the chain to the very biggest guys who end up depending on the smaller contractors at the bottom for a lot of their work. When you let the smaller contractors play by unethical rules, the ethical guys are pushed out of the game.

You can call my argument horsecrap all you want, but you sound like someone who really doesn't understand much about how it all goes together in the end. Nothing in an economy happens in a vacuum, no matter how much you like to pretend it does.

a reply to: Flatfish


Nice to hear from the establishment supporting members. Thanks for the input.

If the left was so sure Hillary would beat Trump do you think Soros and Co. would be funding all these 'protests'? I think not.

Trump benefits from the left's support of Hillary. It's certainly no given that Hillary wins,

On your practice what you preach, I will remind you what Reagan was. A 'new deal Democrat' that almost joined the Communist Party. (Other similarities between the two come to mind as well...the grass root support, the disaffection from the Establishment, then known as the Rockefeller
Republicans.)


So from your post, I can't tell if your a Sanders supporter or a Cruz guy? Both seem to use the same rhetoric in attacking Trump...

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: nwtrucker

GO FOR IT.

I trust he brings you all you are looking for and deserve.

We are and will....remain with the status quo crowd. Look ahead as see where that's going....see the cliff just in front of you?

At least we're trying.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

History says you correct. When the U.S. was in it's hey day, these extremes didn't dominate.

Yea but man did they talk some smack here and there through the history of our election cycles. And I beg to differ but extremists have nearly always dominated american politics.

a reply to: ketsuko

I worked through the International Longshoreman's Association for 33 yrs and served as an elected official for over 22 of those years, so I do indeed have a little experience with respect to union labor issues.

Illegal immigrant workers have been around forever and they never really had much impact until states began jumping on the "Right To Work" bandwagon due to special interest lobbying from companies looking to exploit cheap labor at the expense of the American standard of living.

The other big problem is lack of enforcement of existing laws. I've literally begged Border Patrol & INS to meet me at job sites where I'll identify illegal workers for them, just to have repeated no-shows on their part.

But let me tell you this, it doesn't take a bunch of illegals willing to work for sub-standard wages & benefits to come and take your job. Now that American manufacturing has left, taking millions of good paying jobs with it, there are plenty of desperate American citizens who are just as willing to work for less.

We are currently in the middle a pre-meditated, purposefully planned and orchestrated, race to the bottom. All intentially done by corporate special interest who value nothing but personal profit.

Free trade & right to work laws have done more to destroy American jobs and lower the American standard of living than any group of illegals ever could.

People are not the enemy, corporate greed and indifference is.

Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who is not beholden to corporate special interest, while Trump is the embodiment of it.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.