The Myth of the Benevolent Left

Three men board a boat. They will be going across the sea. This journey will take them two weeks.
The first man has four weeks worth of water/food.
The second man has two weeks worth of water/food.
The third man only has one day worth of water/food.

As the journey starts, the first man is annoyed by the third man and his lack of supplies. He refuses to share any of his water/food and wonders why the third man even decided to board the boat at all.

The second man is equally annoyed by the third man and knows that by giving any of his supplies to him might hurt himself.

The third man is confused why two men with more than enough water/food for all of them are angry at him.

Unfortunately for the the first and second man, the third man happens to be stronger and bigger than both of them and could easily throw them overboard.

Knowing this, the first man convinces the second man that he should share his water/food with the third man, but just enough to keep him happy but not strong enough to take their water/food.

The second man agrees because he is equally scared of both men.

When this boat meets its destination, the second and third man will be almost starved, while the first man still has two weeks worth of water/food which he will flush away because it will no longer be any good after the journey.

a reply to: Upside

What ever, dude. I think that tiny story is highly off-topic. I think what LesMis' question here is all about, is:

How comes that there are people who are considered as poor? Why is that? And what to do about it?

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Ultimately yes... but there are so many without parents, or born directly onto poverty that anything other than help would be uncivilized or intrude on self possession as an autonomous being.

No one chose where they were born nor the circumstances. So a government nor country has any right over ones body, no matter how many laws may state otherwise.

Well, I find that a lot of these people have at least one living parent somewhere. And frankly, that's really the biggest problem. People who choose to reproduce and then refuse to take any responsibility for what they've done.

Among these people you'll find...

1. People who were never doing well psychologically or financially. But they were mentally well enough that they should have known that reproduction would be bad for the kids.

2. People who are OK financially but are just lazy parents. They want to have kids and put raising them off on society and blame other people for anything that goes wrong. You know. The kinds of people who give 8 year olds computers and leave them to do their own thing. And then they wonder what went wrong when the kid sees lots of inappropriate stuff online and ends up with a lot of mental problems from lack of guidance.

3. People who deliberately use their kids to gain sympathy and assorted "benefits" and other things. It's got to suck being the kid and slowly realizing your parents are using you that way. And we're really surprised when they grow up and don't know how to do anything else but depend on the system? Generally, the environment that surrounds them has a major impact on what they become. If they're able to rise above a bad upbringing, it's often just luck.

I include myself in this. I'm basically an adult child. I'm stuck in a weird place where I know why I am the way I am but I'm too set in my ways to change myself. My parents never meant anything but well but they made a lot of poor choices. The first of which was having kids in the first place.

I know there are kids who have no parents and I'm not really saying that isn't a problem but we let a lot of people off the hook for things they chose to do and THEN society dumps all the negative consequences for that on their kids. And the worst of it is that one of the consequences is the welfare state. They can't survive without it so it's going to be very difficult to turn them against it. They don't see it as a bad thing because it feeds them. They don't realize that when you depend on something it owns you. The state will never do anything to really upset these people until it has nothing to lose.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Sorry but I don't think you're in a position to speak on the benevolence of billions of people being a myth...

Whether right or left.

As a sort of litmus test, ask anyone who advocates for a right to housing, to food, proper wages, proper welfare, and healthcare, if he himself has ever inclined to provide these “rights”.

The lefties I know are very vocal in the idea that their tax money should be spent on the above.
That's why they will vote for Hillary/Sander's/Corbyn, or support(ed) Obama/Miliband etc


We put our money where our mouth is.


Whether you agree if government should be involved in any of those is moot, it's what leftists believe in.
Including myself as centre left.

A sad fact, however, the great majority of people who are of this mind set and think that their tax dollars are going to said programs actually pay little to no income taxes at all and in many cases, actually get a larger return than they actually paid in. How can anyone who does not pay into a system advocate how those funds should be allocated and more directly, allocated in greater proportion to potentially them?

Grade-A sociopolitical commentary, OP. Incisive and nonsubjective. Thank you for taking the time.

Another member summed it up more informally:

originally posted by: DBCowboy
With the rise of on line activity, I think we're seeing an increase of arm-chair activism.

It's emotional-based, not result-based.

It's just enough to tweet that you care. The effort goes into telling people that you care, versus actually going out to care.

Bingo. These people want to improve their self-image, and they want to do it with minimal effort. Type out a rant before breakfast, vote for expanded 'welfare' programs after lunch, and you can feel morally superior by suppertime.

The right base everything they do on fear and emotion and those are facts. Take a look at the constant threads created by these people and watch the news, they react to everything out of fear and base all their judgements on emotions.

The fake planned parenthood videos, anything Obama says, anything a Muslim does or any minority for that matter. They prefer to live in the past and hate any sort of progress but they also tell others to stop bringing up the past unless it benefits them which makes them hypocrites.

They also love to point out that it was the dems who were for segregation and it was the right who wanted desegregation way back in when. We can all agree that each side has changed their stance and bare no resemblance to the ones of the past.

There is no myth when it comes to benevolence of the left because, we actually do want what is best for the world and look to our fellow man as brothers and sisters. The right is disgusting in that they believe the world centers around an individual and others are just moochers and leaches.

a reply to: Upside

What is this representative of?

Our current economic situation.

One man tends to the fields, grows the food, builds other needed supplies and tools, ships them to the docks, loads them onto the boat.
The second man manages the first man.
The third man owns the business that the other two work for.

The first man is given a days supply of food,
The second man is given two weeks supply of food.
The third man is given a years worth of food

The first two men are told to revere and worship the men above them, wondering how work could even exist without the benevolent owner.

Even when confronted by the hard questions posed in the OP, several members have responded with exactly the same mentality he described.

'But I do care about poor people! My voting record proves it!'

A bunch of ultra right, wealth Apologists in here....lol...

a reply to: FullBloodedNative

There is no myth when it comes to benevolence of the left because, we actually do want what is best for the world and look to our fellow man as brothers and sisters. The right is disgusting in that they believe the world centers around an individual and others are just moochers and leaches.

Proof positive. Amazing.

And disgusting.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The lefties I know are very vocal in the idea that their tax money should be spent on the above.
That's why they will vote for Hillary/Sander's/Corbyn, or support(ed) Obama/Miliband etc

Then set up private organizations to collect money to use for welfare.

Don't force someone to participate against their will.

Problem solved.

I woke up this morning with a sudden comprehension of what the reasoning is behind the assertion of the OP and others, that I just couldn't totally get before.

This idea springs from the notion that helping others requires self sacrifice.

That's it isn't it? That is not only what you mean by "doing REAL acts of care", but also why you fear the concept of social programs in general (that is would require your self sacrifice in one way or another) ??

There has to be some sort of loss experienced by the giver for it to count as a caring or compassionate action, right?

You guys can tell me if I have put a finger on it or not, but I am almost sure that i have.
I do not like self sacrifice for other, nor the opposite , so I was not reading it from that angle originally... but I see now this is a polarized group of people in all ways of thought!

I bet that is also why the concept of one being both a giver and a receiver doesn't compute here.

Ask yourself one simple thing here, and demand a concrete factual answer: "Who is 'the Left'?"

That tells you precisely everything you need to know to understand the validity of the OP's argument and those subsequent to it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Ask yourself one simple thing here, and demand a concrete factual answer: "Who is 'the Left'?"

That tells you precisely everything you need to know to understand the validity of the OP's argument and those subsequent to it.

I can only look at the people I know in America in my family who are "of the left"- they are all the most educated and financially affluent, who are working in services related to education or law. (mostly all teachers, a couple lawyers in immigration and business). Oh yeah- mental health professionals as well.

What does that suggest to me? They are highly aware of the problems in these issues, the teachers are working for the state already so see themselves as involved in the effort, (just not well supported by the public) and perhaps.... they might have some guilt involved, about having that financial affluence?

The righties in my family are in entertainment areas of work (computer games!) and a huge chunk of them are all financial advisors (they all got slowly pulled into the same investing business). They have less financial success than the lefties, but at the same time, they work with very rich people! They spend their time trying to seduce rich people (even while my dad is a financial advisor, stepmom works as a fundraiser for a hospital, trying to convince some of the richest people in the country to donate). Many of their clients are very old and very rich, and in order to create empathy and trust, they have become aligned with those peoples values, ethics and concerns. (I was disgusted, for some of those, it means extreme racism, religosity and bigotry!).

In fact those righties, used to be lefties in the hippy days, but were completely turned around by this career.
I don't think think they lack compassion, but I think they have become blind to certain issues, while focusing on others, as humans will do.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Sorry but I don't think you're in a position to speak on the benevolence of billions of people being a myth...

Whether right or left.

As a sort of litmus test, ask anyone who advocates for a right to housing, to food, proper wages, proper welfare, and healthcare, if he himself has ever inclined to provide these “rights”.

The lefties I know are very vocal in the idea that their tax money should be spent on the above.
That's why they will vote for Hillary/Sander's/Corbyn, or support(ed) Obama/Miliband etc


We put our money where our mouth is.


Whether you agree if government should be involved in any of those is moot, it's what leftists believe in.
Including myself as centre left.

It is not just the lefts money you are putting where your mouth is, it is also people who believe other than you. I know people say elections have consequences but you have to remember that you are the president of the United States you are not the president of the United left or the United right. You represent all the people and should think accordingly. Otherwise you are a selfish person and not a true leader.
Just because people don't see things the way others do don't mean they are heartless.
Both parties need to get over themselves. People need to be more free thinkers, and quit drinking the kool aid. All that sugar is bad for you and the country.

a reply to: Bluesma

So, in terms of your family, would you say that all of the "lefties" believe the exact same things?

Do they all respond (or fail to) with the same level of compassion and empathy? (or lack therof?)

Do they all say and do exactly those stereotypical things that OP and others have everyone on "the Left" saying and doing, like a bunch of sock puppets?

My point is that while we can certainly gesture with broad meaning toward "the right and left" politically, the specific and detailed claims that the OP and others here make regarding a percentage of the American people that ranges from 1/3 to a bit more than half (so between 70 million and 110 million people) make sense?

Or are they basically empty propaganda, jingoism, and mere political platitudes?

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Sorry but I don't think you're in a position to speak on the benevolence of billions of people being a myth...

Whether right or left.

As a sort of litmus test, ask anyone who advocates for a right to housing, to food, proper wages, proper welfare, and healthcare, if he himself has ever inclined to provide these “rights”.

The lefties I know are very vocal in the idea that their tax money should be spent on the above.
That's why they will vote for Hillary/Sander's/Corbyn, or support(ed) Obama/Miliband etc


We put our money where our mouth is.


Whether you agree if government should be involved in any of those is moot, it's what leftists believe in.
Including myself as centre left.

It is not just the lefts money you are putting where your mouth is, it is also people who believe other than you. I know people say elections have consequences but you have to remember that you are the president of the United States you are not the president of the United left or the United right. You represent all the people and should think accordingly. Otherwise you are a selfish person and not a true leader.
Just because people don't see things the way others do don't mean they are heartless.
Both parties need to get over themselves. People need to be more free thinkers, and quit drinking the kool aid. All that sugar is bad for you and the country.

The only presidents asked to be like that are republicans. Domestically anyway.

originally posted by: CharlestonChew
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The lefties I know are very vocal in the idea that their tax money should be spent on the above.
That's why they will vote for Hillary/Sander's/Corbyn, or support(ed) Obama/Miliband etc

Then set up private organizations to collect money to use for welfare.

Don't force someone to participate against their will.

Problem solved.

Most left types don't grasp the idea of the "individual" very well. To much collective mindedness. Your idea is about as absurd to them as you or I trying to make them buy a gun and force them to exercise that bit of the 2nd amendment responsibility. Well we wouldn't was our time. And its not necessary. But they never seem to be able to do anything with out dragging your wallet into it.

Oh fer godssakes ...

Do you who always default to the "keep your hands out of our wallets" response ever take your logic a step further?

Do you also resent the Federal monies given to international corporations?

Do you also resent the Federal monies sent to foreign governments, like Israel?

Do you also resent the Federal monies used to buy weapons used in your name to kill innocents?

If not, your resentment may be a bit one-sided.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Oh fer godssakes ...

Do you who always default to the "keep your hands out of our wallets" response ever take your logic a step further?

Do you also resent the Federal monies given to international corporations?

Do you also resent the Federal monies sent to foreign governments, like Israel?

Do you also resent the Federal monies used to buy weapons used in your name to kill innocents?

If not, your resentment may be a bit one-sided.

Yep, yep and yep. But I do like money spent on weapons that kill bad guys.