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UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

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posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: visitors


I'm not in the sees-the-future club. So I don't know. Some things are obvious what way they will go, for me this one isn't. I would say that given the UK has no money to fill the gaps that will be left if they leave (referring to the subsidies the EU pays its members) that they don't really have a choice, they have to stay in it.



Did you know that the UK is now the second biggest contributor to the EU budget?

In round figures 10 billion.

So in point of fact the relatively small subsidies received by the UK are simply a

small portion of what the UK has already paid in ... you could say pocket money!!


www.dailymail.co.uk...
And the Government want to cut benefits for the less fortunate i.e. Invalids!




posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

"I do not wish the UK to fall even deeper into the pocket of the US. As I said before I would rather be a member of a corrupt European union than the lap dog of an even more corrupt United states of America."


The corrupt Crown Government is what ruined the USA. It's the other way around. They've been trying to stop an actually free nation all along, and they've been infiltrating the US and causing it to stay the corrupt Europe it was trying to get away from. Then after WW2s staged end, 'Euros' Paperclip Projected their nazi imperial ways over to the US, making it this military thing it since became.

For true context on US corruption, maybe watch a documentary such as Why We Fight as it traces the inception of the Military Industrial Complex. Which is the one that has since gone out and messed up the rest of the world.

Israel puppets it. Stage a big WW2, get a country out of it based on lies too, continue the Reich (of whatever number you care to mention, fourth fifth sixth) from there, continue to run the world stage on the basis of continuous war. Can't possibly be economically viable? Nevermind - just ban drugs and there's your black budget funding for it all.

In nay case, voting against Europe has nothing to do with overtly being part of the USA in some way. It'd be financially an advantage to the USA, allied with the UK, for the UK to be in Europe, for trade reasons if nothing else.

But never mind about all that - what is far more potentially revealing is - can you come up with a link to one of Bernards thread participations?

I'm happy to accept links to outside this forum. It doesn't have to be from here.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

What would be considered a decent wage for what is although a pretty physical job something that requires little thought or intelligence though?

In my area bin men are all agency staff and get £9.25ph. There is no guarantee of work but if you are up and ready for a phone call at 5.30am and do not get work you still get half a days pay.

That is a lot more than other jobs round here including chefs who need qualifications and also have to work hard.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:16 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
I will answer the question you posted above though and say that this is one of the primary reasons I am voting "IN" as it stands. I do not wish the UK to fall even deeper into the pocket of the US As I said before I would be a member
of a corrupt European union than the lap dog of an even more corrupt United states of America


We do not necessarily have to love who we go to bed with but it helps if we know

how to take them and their faults? ....and how their mind works?

Makes for a more even playing field?

When you take on an adversary isn't a *one to one* preferable to a *gang bang*



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: Morrad
reply to visitors

This is about leaving a European Union which is both illiberal and undemocratic. It has no bearing on us being European. The EU is run by a bunch of elitist cultural Marxists who are increasingly forcing their PC nonsense onto everyone. They have already started claiming that Brexiters are Europhobic which is twaddle. Most Brexiters don't hate our European neighbours, they hate the EU and everything it stands for (ie a roadmap to tyranny).

You mentioned the Census being un-evolved (sic) when actually it is very evolved. It relates to the science of Demography.

From your posts I get the impression that you would not take employment that is 'beneath you' while looking for more appropriate employment for your skills. This is not only wrong but also a paradox. Where is the dignity in not supporting yourself independently rather than relying on the state?




How will you vote?



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:20 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: nonspecific
I will answer the question you posted above though and say that this is one of the primary reasons I am voting "IN" as it stands. I do not wish the UK to fall even deeper into the pocket of the US As I said before I would be a member
of a corrupt European union than the lap dog of an even more corrupt United states of America


We do not necessarily have to love who we go to bed with but it helps if we know

how to take them and their faults? ....and how their mind works?

Makes for a more even playing field?

When you take on an adversary isn't a *one to one* preferable to a *gang bang*


I agree on that but just personally feel that we have more chance against Europeans than the US.

I am afraid that with them as a primary partner they will be pushing for us to adopt more and more of their practices.

Private health care, political lobbying, corporations buying whatever laws suit them, more wars?

We have a long history of fighting our European brethren and think we would ultimately be better off but that's just my own personal opinion and dislike of of |American politics and culture.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:22 AM
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a reply to: visitors

As I said last night I have no interest in continuing in debating with you as it is detremental to the flow of theis discussion.




posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:22 AM
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Current status of ATS vote after 31 pages is as follows:-


%
Eligible IN = 18.31
Eligible OUT = 61.97
Eligible UNDEC = 12.68

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 7.04
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 100.00 % 18.31 69.01 12.68


edit on 20-3-2016 by RP2SticksOfDynamite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Current status of ATS vote after 31 pages is as follows:-

%
Eligible IN = 18.06
Eligible OUT = 61.11
Eligible UNDEC = 12.50

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 6.94
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 98.61 % 18.06 68.06 12.50


This is quite an interesting insight into the UK membership of ATS then!

"Official polls" currently put the "Exit" vote at 49% with the "Remain" at 51% with not unsure figures included.

Does this mean that ATS members are more informed or simply more distrustful?

The exit vote is gaining though so maybe ATS is just ahead of the game


www.theweek.co.uk... 5461/eu-referendum-in-camps-lead-narrows-in-latest-poll-of-polls


edit on 20/3/2016 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: Morrad

"This is about leaving a European Union which is both illiberal and undemocratic. It has no bearing on us being European. The EU is run by a bunch of elitist cultural Marxists who are increasingly forcing their PC nonsense onto everyone. They have already started claiming that Brexiters are Europhobic which is twaddle. Most Brexiters don't hate our European neighbours, they hate the EU and everything it stands for (ie a roadmap to tyranny).

You mentioned the Census being un-evolved (sic) when actually it is very evolved. It relates to the science of Demography.

From your posts I get the impression that you would not take employment that is 'beneath you' while looking for more appropriate employment for your skills. This is not only wrong but also a paradox. Where is the dignity in not supporting yourself independently rather than relying on the state?"

I don't see that - I see that those who don't like Europe really are just racist, and that is the core reason.

I think they realise that the 'real' EU is actually something that won't let them get away with the evils they have been getting away with all along.

That said (the sad truth that so many people are so bad, that they need things like being microchipped just to stop them - personally I don't need to keep them about, but for some inexplicable reason there seem to be beings who do want to keep them about), no census are not evolved at all. If people were operating on their true communications systems, like animals do, then there'd be no need to be taking outside stats. Just go outside your door and you can see how urbanisation and overpopulation have ruined this land and many others, you don't need stats for that. Just go out shopping and see how lame things are. No stats required.

Who does what good with all that data and all those numbers on people? It's just nosey for all the wrong reasons. You can't ever build a society worth living in on those sorts of basis'.

You don't know what paradox means if you think it applies to that situation. Any self-respecting would consider all kinds of things beneath them, which some people in society try to mind control them into thinking they somehow should accept as being ok.

I've done all kinds of crap jobs, I mentioned just one of them in reply to another personal attack.

I very clearly outlined and explained in my posts here when I replied to that, exactly why no it isn't ok to build a world a society with jobs like that in it. What is the point of such a system? You think people should get born here to - not even do what they are good at for a living? Such a system has no right to exist. It's pointless and it's going nowhere. If they had done it right, it'd be self sufficient by now, and the jobs would all actually be worthwhile and truly required.

Nobody sane would want to live in a world where their best choices are the kinds of jobs mentioned here - oh sorting pastries. I have an IQ above 40, that kind of thing is completely unsuitable for me. He probably also meant meat pastries, so I wouldn't even eat those either if they were organic.

There's no dignity in not standing up for the truth and facts. None. There's no dignity in going along with what you know to be evil and corrupt. You go to hell when you die for that kind of thing you know.

People should realise how things are - it isn't like it's hidden from view, it's right outside your house, in your town, all over the place. And stop having children when they know their lives are going to be about doing jobs you only need the barest bit of intelligence to do. It's like having a supercar and then only ever using it to go a few miles in town - humans are not designed to do limited idiot work, unless they choose for some reason to be stupid and not make the effort to better themselves, therefore are ok with a limited pointless existence.

Oh the irony of being told the EU is Marxist diktat and then being told by the same person I should be ok with being a slave worker for a corrupt fail system. It doesn't get any more Commie State than an attitude like that. Be happy to be a cog in our fail machine that nobody sane would have built ever.




edit on 20-3-2016 by visitors because: The last bit needed to be added



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

What would be considered a decent wage for what is although a pretty physical job something that requires little thought or intelligence though?

In my area bin men are all agency staff and get £9.25ph. There is no guarantee of work but if you are up and ready for a phone call at 5.30am and do not get work you still get half a days pay.

That is a lot more than other jobs round here including chefs who need qualifications and also have to work hard.

A wage that enables a family to remain healthy and enjoy a few pleasures in life. A wage that enables one to save a minimum of 5% of their income and one that ensures they can keep the family warm in winter! This is possible if we remove the GREED factor which damages us all!! It should not just be about ones might of mind or body but skills considered and ability. My father was a Forgeman and the best in England (that is a known fact)! His skill and strength was renowned but he wasn't a mentally agile man and this did not put a constraint on his income which was large because he earned more for his ability to do things quickly others could not on peace work!

I would make the minimum wage 10 pound an hour and I would set maximums for top levels in companies which would compensate for the minimum of 10 pounds. I would also change the tax levels from 3 to 5. I would also increase the highest tax level 1 by 10% and tax level 2 by 5. I would reduce the lowest by 5%.

I would establish a programme of training to fill all those jobs skilled and unskilled currently filled by working immigrants and the place I would start is the NHS. We take far to many skilled NHS workers from abroad and we should train our own.

I could go on but Im not tasked with forming the next government but if I was I would take the future by constraining GREED!



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:41 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Current status of ATS vote after 31 pages is as follows:-

%
Eligible IN = 18.06
Eligible OUT = 61.11
Eligible UNDEC = 12.50

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 6.94
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 98.61 % 18.06 68.06 12.50


This is quite an interesting insight into the UK membership of ATS then!

"Official polls" currently put the "Exit" vote at 49% with the "Remain" at 51% with not unsure figures included.

Does this mean that ATS members are more informed or simply more distrustful?

The exit vote is gaing though so maybe ATS is just ahead of the game


www.theweek.co.uk... 5461/eu-referendum-in-camps-lead-narrows-in-latest-poll-of-polls

You should not trust the official figures! Like I have said and many others 60% of people I know from various circles are voting OUT which is in line with our ATS vote!



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Did you know that the UK is now the second biggest contributor to the EU budget?
In round figures 10 billion.




And the Government want to cut benefits for the less fortunate i.e. Invalids!


Well if they didn't have to prop up the EU with humungous contributions they

might just be able to do just that!?


So VOTE TO LEAVE THE EU MONSTER



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Current status of ATS vote after 31 pages is as follows:-

%
Eligible IN = 18.06
Eligible OUT = 61.11
Eligible UNDEC = 12.50

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 6.94
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 98.61 % 18.06 68.06 12.50


This is quite an interesting insight into the UK membership of ATS then!

"Official polls" currently put the "Exit" vote at 49% with the "Remain" at 51% with not unsure figures included.

Does this mean that ATS members are more informed or simply more distrustful?

The exit vote is gaing though so maybe ATS is just ahead of the game


www.theweek.co.uk... 5461/eu-referendum-in-camps-lead-narrows-in-latest-poll-of-polls

You should not trust the official figures! Like I have said and many others 60% of people I know from various circles are voting OUT which is in line with our ATS vote!



I do not trust any polling figures including this one as they can be manipulated so easily.

Also it seems to me that when a big decision is to be made then the projections fall foul at the last minute as many silent voters choos to keep the status quo and many who favour change bottle it at the last minute.

The Scottish referendum went a similar way I think and UKIP got far less support than the polls and ATS suggested at the last general election.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Not true, you could easily link to where Bernards threads are.

So could your two pals that know them.

Prove you're not a troll - link them.

Ignore opinions and posts of people like me at your peril, world. Closing your eyes doesn't make the facts go away. I'm just putting in 'world' there because the problem causers will throw a hissy fit and get me banned if I point the finger personally at the true culprits.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:54 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
I do not trust any polling figures including this one as they can be manipulated so easily.
Also it seems to me that when a big decision is to be made then the projections fall foul at the last minute as many silent voters choos to keep the status quo and many who favour change bottle it at the last minute.
The Scottish referendum went a similar way I think and UKIP got far less support than the polls and ATS suggested at the last general election.


Tongue in cheek - but never the less TRUE


Privately I got both of those right.
But this one is a bit close to call!!



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I think he meant more sewage workers. I'm not sure what they get paid, but some of them don't even seem to get air fed masks, which should be an absolute requirement. You need an aqualung to go down there.

Sewage is a disgrace of a system. It's one small step away from what caused the plague - chuck it under the streets in specially built tunnels, rather than just on the streets. All that'll do is prolong the time it takes for the next plague. Had they any brains the urban planner types, they'd have ensured all buildings are as self-sufficient as possible, off grid in thesedays speak.

Being a binman isn't too bad. One of my best jobs involved doing some bins and litter picking. It was good because it was outdoors, somewhere nice to be.
edit - just in case the usual tries its usual - most outdoor jobs are evil and ruin the environment, because they are about cutting it up and reducing it or poisoning it.


edit on 20-3-2016 by visitors because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:58 AM
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a reply to: eletheia

How about you, can you link me to a Bernard thread here? I'd really like to read those threads.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
I do not trust any polling figures including this one as they can be manipulated so easily.

Also it seems to me that when a big decision is to be made then the projections fall foul at the last minute as many silent voters choos to keep the status quo and many who favour change bottle it at the last minute.

The Scottish referendum went a similar way I think and UKIP got far less support than the polls and ATS suggested at the last general election.

Agreed about the polls at the general election last year, they were way off.
Who knows though?

I am yet to find anyone in my social circles who is voting 'remain', just folk who are either definitely voting 'leave', are undecided, or don't care. The only people I know who would definitely vote 'remain' are my friends who are nationals of EU countries living and working here. They don't have the vote of course so their views are irrelevant.

It could be just a regional thing, I'm on the coast of SW England and the fishing quota rights issue is very much spoken about here. That said, my family and friends back home in South Wales are all voting leave, and tell me that is the sentiment of the majority of folk they know as well.

I do know a few folk who say 'undecided' in public, but privately say they will be voting leave. They have explained that the lame accusation of xenophobia and racist is the reason they are keeping quiet. I wonder how many other 'secret' leave voters are out there?

Again, who knows, but I'm hoping we will have a shock in June with a convincing vote to leave being the result.
Then the fun and games will certainly begin!



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Current status of ATS vote after 31 pages is as follows:-

%
Eligible IN = 18.06
Eligible OUT = 61.11
Eligible UNDEC = 12.50

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 6.94
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 98.61 % 18.06 68.06 12.50


This is quite an interesting insight into the UK membership of ATS then!

"Official polls" currently put the "Exit" vote at 49% with the "Remain" at 51% with not unsure figures included.

Does this mean that ATS members are more informed or simply more distrustful?

The exit vote is gaing though so maybe ATS is just ahead of the game


www.theweek.co.uk... 5461/eu-referendum-in-camps-lead-narrows-in-latest-poll-of-polls

You should not trust the official figures! Like I have said and many others 60% of people I know from various circles are voting OUT which is in line with our ATS vote!



I do not trust any polling figures including this one as they can be manipulated so easily.

Also it seems to me that when a big decision is to be made then the projections fall foul at the last minute as many silent voters choos to keep the status quo and many who favour change bottle it at the last minute.

The Scottish referendum went a similar way I think and UKIP got far less support than the polls and ATS suggested at the last general election.
How on earth can I manipulate these figures. Its a simple adding of each vote for each option and then votes option/total votes x 100 to get the %! And that is exactly what I have done. So my figures are not in any way manipulated. They are as ATS members specified!



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