UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

a reply to: Morrad

''The rest of your post is purely subjective, emotive, distorted and based on sentiment.''

So you're a synth then?

Cause real people base things on their emotions. That's what a human is. A real human, not the ones that just resemble humans but just go along with the fake system, and think they can go through life without bothering to find out why they exist and why any of this exists. A drain on the universe is all they are.

a reply to: visitors

Ad misericordiam appears to be a rule of thumb with you.

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I voted early on in the thread. Perhaps my new avatar made you think I was new to the discussion.

So you did. thanks. don't want to double count or I will get accused of manipulating the figures.

Latest from Vote LEAVE - It just gets better


Big business spin can’t hide the fact that economy would prosper outside EU

The pro-EU CBI has released its latest report extolling the virtues of staying in an unreformed EU. However, even using pessimistic models of the UK’s future relationship with the EU after we Vote Leave, the EU-funded big business lobby group finds that employment and growth will rise.

The CBI admits that growth will be stronger after we Vote Leave than if we stay in the EU. It also goes on to say that, even in the worst case scenario, the UK will gain 3 million jobs after we take back control and Vote Leave. You can read our full response to the report here.

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org... aign=160321_c_news&utm_medium=email&utm_source=voteleave



The CBI has a history of getting it horribly wrong on the EU. It called on the UK to join the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, which was disastrous for our economy, and it campaigned for the UK to scrap the pound. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.
Turkey deal moves the EU’s border to Syria
Late last week, EU leaders rushed through a deal with Turkey in an attempt to try and cope with the migrant crisis. As part of the deal, official talks to make Turkey a full member of the EU will be ‘re-energised’. The EU has also agreed in principle to give 75 million Turkish citizens access to the passport-free Schengen zone by June this year, meaning that the EU is creating a visa-free zone stretching from the English Channel to the Syrian border.
Being in the EU undermines our security and makes it easier for criminals to get in. The former Head of Interpol, Ronald K Noble, www.nytimes.com...
said last year that the EU’s lack of internal borders ‘is like hanging a sign welcoming terrorists to Europe’. The European Court also has the final say on whether we can deport dangerous criminals. We need to Vote Leave on 23 June to take back control of our borders and our national security. It is the safer option.

Today's must-reads
CBI steps up the scaremongering - Mail
www.dailymail.co.uk...
Coca-Cola plan to gun down George Osborne’s £1 billion ‘Sugar Tax’ in the European courts - Sun www.thesun.co.uk...

Tyrannical EU threatens our liberal laws - Dominic Raab, Times
www.thetimes.co.uk... er

EU leaders strike controversial deal to tackle the refugee crisis - Mail
www.thetimes.co.uk... er

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: visitors

Ad misericordiam appears to be a rule of thumb with you.

A most appropriate deduction!

originally posted by: nonspecific


I will answer the question you posted above though and say that this is one of the primary reasons I am voting "IN" as it stands. I do not wish the UK to fall even deeper into the pocket of the US As I said before I would be a member
of a corrupt European union than the lap dog of an even more corrupt United states of America

Talking corruption I thought this rather interesting.
The undemocratic EU explained.


The EU's law making process is fundamentally undemocratic. Power is vested in the

unelected and unaccountable elite, who make laws - in secret

The four key institutions of the EU have an integrationist agenda, as the intention

is to create a federal United States of Europe, this *new* country, already has

a flag, a Parliament, an anthem?, Presidents, currency, a legal system and legal

status.


The EU Commission enforces EU law. More importantly it is the government of

Europe which has the sole right to propose laws which increasingly encroach on our

lives in the UK. The Commission has a President who is personally elected by the

European Parliament .... however his was the only name on the ballot paper.

(Not exactly democratic?)


The EU is a highly undemocratic organisation, ratcheting up more and more power

with every passing day. It is impervious to public opinion. The people who matter

in the law making process are both unelected and unaccountable.


The only way to secure genuine democratic control of our own laws, borders and

sovereignity is to VOTE OUT OF THE EU.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

a reply to: eletheia

The EU is not just undemocratic, it is anti-democratic.

Take what happened in Greece for example. The Greek people had a referendum on the bailout and austerity package and voted 61% to 39%, rejecting the bailouts and austerity package.

Then two weeks later Greece accepted a bailout package that contains larger pension cuts and tax increases than the one rejected by Greek voters in the referendum. Of course the Syriza-led government are to blame for this, but only because of the pressure (and I guess blackmail) from the EU and it's institutions.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Some interesting links. I see Ed Miliband has come out of obscurity to claim that leaving the EU will promote a laboratory for a right wing, free market experiment.

Seems a bit extreme (more scare tactics).

Whilst browsing I found this recent report. A very quick scan gave me the impression things are not looking good. I will read it tomorrow and provide feedback.

The European Union Facing Massive Challenges – What are Citizens’ Expectations and Concerns?

originally posted by: 83Liberty
The EU is not just undemocratic, it is anti-democratic.
Take what happened in Greece for example. The Greek people had a referendum on the bailout and austerity package and voted 61% to 39%, rejecting the bailouts and austerity package.

You're so right .. There is so much wrong with the EU and while we are

concentrating on our own position of being in, we tend to forget what is and has

happened to other members. Greece has not only been screwed financially, but

now they are right in the centre of the immigrant fracas, which will impede on

their main? industry tourism.

Wasn't it Ireland who had to vote on something (currency) till they arrived at the

required result for the EU.


So much for FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY!!!!!!

I suspect that the attacks in Brussels will now result in a convincing LEAVE vote on 23 June 2016.

RIP those poor soles who sadly lost their lives today at the hands of some very sick animals.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I'm an out vote and I'm from Scotland.
I'm not with the SNP on this one, I have seen the decimation of the North East fishing industries and the towns that supported them.
They are riddled with drug abusers now because there's no work and no opportunities for people up there and that's what happens when people get depressed.

Thanks for your vote. Read the thread you will learn a lot about whats going on.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Why?

We need to leave the EU because Brussels got bombed?

Did the EU bomb it?

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Why?

We need to leave the EU because Brussels got bombed?

Did the EU bomb it?

No one said we had to leave because Brussels attacks. But what happened today only further demonstrates the added threat to the UK from all those currently in or coming to Europe if we REMAIN in the EU because it will be easier for those will ill intent to enter the UK. Also, if refugees get papers for EU member countries and we are in the EU they can enter the UK and some may be more terrorists.

This will encourage more voters to vote to LEAVE.

You should read the thread if you want a list of reasons why we need to LEAVE!

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Why?

We need to leave the EU because Brussels got bombed?

Did the EU bomb it?

Is this really the levels that some people will stoop to to put forward a political agenda?

The OP sounds and acts very much like a politician with this kind of blatant bandwagon jumping.

I knew the OP had an agenda but this is really very very sad.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Why?

We need to leave the EU because Brussels got bombed?

Did the EU bomb it?

No one said we had to leave because Brussels attacks. But what happened today only further demonstrates the added threat to the UK from all those currently in or coming to Europe if we REMAIN in the EU because it will be easier for those will ill intent to enter the UK. Also, if refugees get papers for EU member countries and we are in the EU they can enter the UK and some may be more terrorists.

This will encourage more voters to vote to LEAVE.

You should read the thread if you want a list of reasons why we need to LEAVE!

Truly sickening that you will stoop to any level to promote your own beliefs and I think your true colours are now showing with this absurd bandwagon jumping nonsense.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Why?

We need to leave the EU because Brussels got bombed?

Did the EU bomb it?

No one said we had to leave because Brussels attacks. But what happened today only further demonstrates the added threat to the UK from all those currently in or coming to Europe if we REMAIN in the EU because it will be easier for those will ill intent to enter the UK. Also, if refugees get papers for EU member countries and we are in the EU they can enter the UK and some may be more terrorists.

This will encourage more voters to vote to LEAVE.

You should read the thread if you want a list of reasons why we need to LEAVE!

Truly sickening that you will stoop to any level to promote your own beliefs and I think your true colours are now showing with this absurd bandwagon jumping nonsense.

I don't have any agenda. Just running a thread on whether people will IN or OUT on 23 June. And for me to make a point about safety of UK folk is pertinent to the debate. And to suggest that I have stooped to anything is both hog wash and clearly could have only be suggested by an half w.t!

I am not promoting my own beliefs, merely making the point about what is safer for UK folk!

If this is the best you can do for the debate then maybe you should refrain from posting!

My true colours are I care about the welfare of my fellow man and fellow countrymen and my children!

If you want it to be easier for these animals to visit the UK then there is something clearly wrong with you!

It is clear that you have no letters after your name. You cant provide strong argument that is supported by facts so you stoop to insult me without justification. W..ker!


Like I wrote earlier and I repeat

RIP those poor soles who sadly lost their lives today at the hands of some very sick animals.

The fact that Tony Blair is for staying in should be enough to make everyone want to leave.

I had a thought today. At the moment all this trade we have with the EU be it imports or exports, it all goes through Dover / Calais. Thousands of trucks crossing the channel and all focused in south east England.

Now if we leave EU and start trading with other parts of the world then more and more stuff will leave / enter ports further north such as Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow etc.

This will reduce HGV's going up and down the length of the country with all the benefits that brings. Reduce the number of foreign trucks clogging up our roads wearing them out without paying a single penny towards the upkeep.

Provide much needed employment to dock workers in the north and maybe even rekindle ship building

leave.eu...


A few highlights from all walks of life of how being in the EU is detrimental to the
UK. I urge you to read the full stories, could well be an eye opener .... It was for me.

Dr Chris Leigh - of the Astrophysics Research Institute Liverpool.
Dr Leigh reveals the argument that British Science will be left out in the cold if UK
leaves the EU to be untrue.
Five UK universities feature in the top twenty universities worldwide, no other EU
country is on that list Shame on those of you in the UK who like to put Britain
down as a 'has been'
The European Space Agency (ESA) which recently launched Major Tim Peak into space
(on a Russian Spacecraft] is an inter governmental organisation. It has NEVER
been an agency of the EU. British involvement in these great and longstanding
institutions would continue after Brexit. It is extremely disingenuous to suggest otherwise.


Pam Watts. Financial Director
Our universities produce world class engineers, scientists and innovators. Invention
and engineering is what we do best at. Yet how can we stand behind our great engineers
and scientists when we work on an uneven playing field


Colin Smith. Managing Director CSC Ltd.
The EU is stifling British Innovation. I know this is happening throughout numerous
industries, where it has become almost impossible to get approval for new products.
What a terrible waste of time and money, and what an appalling hamper to innovation.
The UK government fought our case at a biocide meeting in Brussels, but regretfully
to no avail.
In the EU you have to abide by the arbituary procedure they dictate even if you
try to export to non EU countries such as India or the USA.


Jason Potchett. Mechanical Engineer
EU rules and regulations have been showered over my industry, the actual content of
which are problematic. This hurts the competitiveness of the UK. In many cases the
regulations are bad news and it doesn't take long for people in the industry to realise
that these rules have been dreamt up by someone in Brussels who hasn't a clue about
the work.


Lance Testa. Managing Director and Parent.
As a parent, my main concern is my children's security, provision for their future, and
their life opportunities. The EU threatens all three. If we left we could fund all our
resources on the citizens of the UK, and this would create more opportunities for my
children, and yours.
We should dedicate more of our resources to fixing poverty in the UK, rather than
providing for the entire EU.It should always be the first priority of any government to
provide for its own people NOT the five hundred million plus EU citizens.


Peter Grant
EU membership has cost us the loss of our *soverign* control. Westminster can never
do anything due to obscure EU regulations. What has become clear is that Westminster
will not admit to how much Soverignity has been signed away.
EU logic means one customer is dictating to another's requirement which they didn't
need or ask for.
Especially when someone else could provide the same at lower cost....Who then has to
absorb the cost of the EU regulations? We do! leading to reduced profits, prosperity and
tax revenue.


Charlie Latchford. Medical student
I am not political, but having looked at the issue of the EU in some detail it seems to me
the UK's strongest position would be out of the EU.
Last year the UK was billed £1.7billion because of the strong performance of her
economy that in addition to the £14billion EU membership fee we pay every year.
This is UK money being taken away from building schools, hospitals and infrastructure. How
can it be said that EU membership is this valuable, when the UK cant even afford to train
their own citizens to become Doctors and Nurses.


Angus Dalgleish. Consultant Oncologist
I have worked in research for decades, and the biggest blow dealt me in my own field of
cancer and immunology is the EU *Clinical Trials Directive*... it is a disaster that threatens
patients lives.
This Directive is plainly a product of the enormous lobbying power *Big Pharma* has been
able to concentrate in Brussels.
Another EU regulation which has had disasterous effects on the NHS is the *Working Time
Directive* which has resulted in trainee surgeons loosing up to 3,000 hours of training time.
Standards have been hit very hard .... with surgeons being appointed to consultant positions
despite lacking a level of experience that would have been required even for a registrar in
previous years.


Reece Haynes. Politics Student.
As a young person I have never had the chance to vote on the UK membership of the EU nor
was I alive for the referendum of 1975. I have been looking at the issue for some time and its
quite easy to see that leaving is by far the best option. I know that the EU is terrible for young
people.
If I want to live a life where I am not insecure about the future, it needs to be a life outside
the EU.
I want to live my life without worrying that the UK will be crippled by the EU.


Caroline Drewett. Entrepreneur.
Caroline's experience as an entrepreneur has led her to conclude that the EU has a definite
bias toward large enterprise. When you look at the deluge of requirements imposed on
virtually all business that only large corporations, with hefty compliance departments
can accommodate. You cant help but think the EU is doing it deliberately.
For Britain in particular being dictated to, by a convention of 27 other EU member states,
most of which are much smaller, and very different economically, socially and historically.
When you are the fifth largest economy in the world, and more people speak your language
outside of that 27 nation bloc than in.
This is a vision that needs to get through to younger people who will see their opportunities
to flourish outside of the EU.

After typing all that I say "For shame" to all those who do Britain down, repeatedly saying
it is no longer Great.

There it is in greater depth >>>
leave.eu...

originally posted by: bigyin
The fact that Tony Blair is for staying in should be enough to make everyone want to leave.

I had a thought today. At the moment all this trade we have with the EU be it imports or exports, it all goes through Dover / Calais. Thousands of trucks crossing the channel and all focused in south east England.

Now if we leave EU and start trading with other parts of the world then more and more stuff will leave / enter ports further north such as Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow etc.

This will reduce HGV's going up and down the length of the country with all the benefits that brings. Reduce the number of foreign trucks clogging up our roads wearing them out without paying a single penny towards the upkeep.

Provide much needed employment to dock workers in the north and maybe even rekindle ship building

Interesting point! Assume your vote is to LEAVE