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UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

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posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: eletheia

Which Bernard do the three of you just happen to all know?




posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: eletheia


Reply to grainosand




Reply to nonspecific



Do either of you think *Bernard* ???



Not in the same league.






posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Discussing personal message things that are off-topic on a public forum does kind of spell it out that you are organised astroturfing.

Unless I'm wrong and someone wants to explain Bernie and their context here.



posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific


"Thank you for your valued input.

Your presence here though I personally feel has grown tiresome.

What you expected to achieve is still a mystery to me though I will wish you a hearty good day and next time I would suggest that you try a little harder."

Why do you have the attitude that anything you think or post matters so much, and that somehow you're in a position to be looking down on me?

That bubble needs to be burst. Your mind is messing up the noosphere. This planets humans overall mindset will remain stupid until people like you have all those bubbles burst.



posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: visitors
a reply to: nonspecific

Discussing personal message things that are off-topic on a public forum does kind of spell it out that you are organised astroturfing.

Unless I'm wrong and someone wants to explain Bernie and their context here.


Not really something to be talked about but "Bernie" is someone who comes along every once in a while and plays games.

You do not seem to be making a great deal of sense given the context of the thread so the member was asking out loud if your intentions were less than honourable.



posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

"Not really something to be talked about but "Bernie" is someone who comes along every once in a while and plays games.

You do not seem to be making a great deal of sense given the context of the thread so the member was asking out loud if your intentions were less than honourable.
"

You think if you post lies they magically become true. It doesn't work that way. You typing things doesn't erase my posts does it, nor the context of them.

Not something to be talked about?! Just post it out loud then, in an off-topic way. Do you watch things like American Dad and then go online imagining you're Avery or something like that? Just trying to trace where your personality comes from.

It's not me that looks suspicious here. My posts are on topic. You three however look very suspicious, especially now with your Bernie talk. So first you were giving the impression you sincerely believed I got into an argument with two people that didn't agree with each other - now I find out those two plus another one must frequent a lot of discussions together, to be giving knowing posts in a personal message way, about some other guy, on another person agains thread.

Why do you think you're so important? I can assure you and anyone else with that attitude, regardless of what you do for a living or who you are, that you aren't that important. You can't even join in a discussion normally, without sending it off-topic in odd ways and then blaming others not doing that for what you've started. This post here is off topic - but given it's a post about your very odd indeed Bernie stuff as well as another of your personal looking down your nose at me posts, it doesn't count as off topic as it's a reply to actual causing off topic.

And more importantly, a reply that seeks to resolve the off-topic things - which you can do by explaining why you think you're so important.



posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Also, given the manner you have responded to me, are you absolutely sure this Bernie ''plays games'' - or maybe they also just reply normally with their opinions that they also give reasons for, and you just reply them condescending and off-topic and miss what they've actually written?



posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: visitors
a reply to: nonspecific

Also, given the manner you have responded to me, are you absolutely sure this Bernie ''plays games'' - or maybe they also just reply normally with their opinions that they also give reasons for, and you just reply them condescending and off-topic and miss what they've actually written?


Really leaving this now as you are becoming rather tiresome now.

I will not go into this anymore as you are either a very poor troll or really rather deluded and it was not all that fun in the first place.

Good night and have fun.




posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: visitors

I went away for a while and came back to find you rather beleaguered


Let's part as friends - don't let a little thing like a few hypothetical come between us. I mean, there'll be a couple of comets flying past us soon. Who knows what could happen??



posted on Mar, 19 2016 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to visitors

This is about leaving a European Union which is both illiberal and undemocratic. It has no bearing on us being European. The EU is run by a bunch of elitist cultural Marxists who are increasingly forcing their PC nonsense onto everyone. They have already started claiming that Brexiters are Europhobic which is twaddle. Most Brexiters don't hate our European neighbours, they hate the EU and everything it stands for (ie a roadmap to tyranny).

You mentioned the Census being un-evolved (sic) when actually it is very evolved. It relates to the science of Demography.

From your posts I get the impression that you would not take employment that is 'beneath you' while looking for more appropriate employment for your skills. This is not only wrong but also a paradox. Where is the dignity in not supporting yourself independently rather than relying on the state?



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 01:12 AM
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Back on topic.


I have not seen much from the *IN* lobby apart from that*We are safer and
stronger within the EU* *We would not be able to survive/trade out of the EU*
and that if we left a *plague of Biblical proportions would leave us out in the
wilderness for decades* LOL!! Nothing factual .....

So I decided to look for FACTS of what would be if we came *OUT* The
following is some of what I came across no links because there is so much...
but very easily found if you so wished!!

#
From 1988 to 2013 it was the US which was the UK's top export partner and
not the EU.Is it now time to seal a comprehensive deal with the US

#
Only two out of the UK's top five export partners are in the EU. It is time for
the UK to capitalise on the opportunities beyond the EU.
#
Despite not being a member Switzerland and several other countries trade
freely out of the EU. Under the same agreement the UK would be paying one
sixth of the amount it pays today.
#
As of September 2015 trade figures reveal that UK exports, outside of the
EU
are up by 5.5% while our exports to the EU are down by 11%.
#
The EU increasing the UK bill by an added 385million to tackle the migrant
crisis encouraged by Mrs Merkel's flippancy. In 2014 the UK gave 12.8billion in
foreign aid, more than any other EU country.
Less than half of the EU aid budget (46%) reached low income countries. The
UK aid programmes are administered more effectively.
#
Since 1996 the UK government has seen its veto on 55 rules, regulations and
spending programmes overruled by EU member states.
#
Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea are all thriving economies,
independent from free trade zones .... Does the UK really need to remain the
EU in order to thrive

#
As a member of NATO, the G7, the OELD, the Commonwealth, and the UN
Security Council the UK is one of the most influential powers in the
world.
#
In 2013 the UK's most successful exports were the Agricultural Sector - but
thanks to the common Agricultural Policy, trade remains heavily controlled
by the EU.
#
In 2014 corruption across the EU cost the EU economy 120billion euro's.
The UK has among the lowest corruption rate in the world.
#
Germany exports 59 billion to the UK, but they only import 27 billion of the UK's
goods .. Who needs Who

#
At the Lisbon treaty Jean-Claude Juncker said *Of course there will be transfers
of soverignity -but would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion
to that fact*
#
Less than 10% of the UK's GDP represents trade with the EU...... YET Brussels
regulations effects 100% of the UK economy. (the sixth largest economy in the world)
you couldn't make it up

#
The most common NHS operation is cataract surgery. 1.7 billion would fund 6 years
of cataract operations.
#
MYTH Britain cannot survive economically outside of the EU?
REALITY Britain's best trading relationships are not within the EU, but
outside it eg. countries such as Switzerland and the USA.
#.
How influential can the UK expect to be ... when Britain's 73 MEP's have a very
small say in a European Parliament of 751 now ....PLUS the new Turkish
members?
#
A vote to stay in the EU means more integration, and the euro forced on the UK,
continued political and economic integration is a key component of the EU
treaties

#
General Sir Michael Jackson has said *The common Agricultural Policy is a
scandal, as is the inability of the auditors to sign off the EU's accounts. These
are powerful reasons to be Eurosceptics.
It is beyond doubt that aspects of our soverignity have been ceded to Brussels*
#
Chairman of Lloyds banking group, Lord Blackwell states *There is no compelling
argument for the UK staying in the EU.
#
The most powerful EU official Jean-Claude Juncker sensationally admitted in
Oct of 2015 that although the UK didn't need the EU, he thinks the EU needs
the UK.
#
When Britain joined the EEC (as it was known then) in 1973 it accounted for 37%
of world GDP and in 2014 it only accounted for 20.2% ...
THE EU IS IN ECONOMIC DECLINE ... a sinking ship

#
One of the conditions on joining the EU is the countries debt should not exceed
60% of GDP
Germany's national debt to GDP ratio = 69.38%
France's national debt to GDP ratio = 98.97%
If they applied today they wouldn't be qualified to do so....LOL!!
edit on 20-3-2016 by eletheia because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-3-2016 by eletheia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:15 AM
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I will be voting OUT]
I will be taking my own Black marker pen as well so there is no chance the vote doesn't show up. There is real concern about rigged voting here in the UK given Camorons insistence we are better off in despite ALL the evidence to the contrary.

Restore full EU sovereignty - so many laws & regulations are made in the EU Parliament and imposed on the UK even if they are not in our best interests.
the UK fought two wars NOT to be dictated to by a Germany led European state and here we are handing it all over with the signature of a pen. This is simply unacceptable


Reclaim our Fishing waters - massive amounts of our own fishing waters are harvested by EU Nations. Get them all back and restore a great industry to our coastal nation

Stop contributing a NET amount of £23 million EVERY DAY to prop up other nations who are struggling

Take control of our Immigration policies. We simply cannot continue any longer with a policy where we cannot stop anyone coming to this country from inside the EU or claiming benefits when they are here. There are finite resources.
We must not be dictated to by the EU as to where our money can or cannot be spent.
We need to stop this dead and make sure we get our nation in order regarding who is coming in, to ensure they benefit the country. Aussie style points system required.
Don't forget that currently anyone from the EU can walk in, whereas a doctor from India or a solicitor from Mexico must jump through hoops to get in to the UK.
That is more discriminatory than allowing us to let the right people in from anywhere in the world and keep out those who would simply be a drain on the system or worse seek to diminish the culture and traditions of the UK.

Stop TTIP being implemented which will happen if we remain.

Retake our seat at the WTO.

For those naysayers I have seen in the thread so far -
the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world en.wikipedia.org...(nominal)
The UK is the 5th largest military power in the world www.globalfirepower.com...
A permanent member of NATO, the UN - all of which is responsible for our security NOT the EU

So those who believe we cannot stand on our own on the world stage are very DELUDED - we can and we will.

When we get OUT on the 24 June though - Cameron needs to go and be replaced by a leader who feels able to do this, because given his inability to push for EXIT in the best interests of our nation, he is absolutely not the man to re-establish ourselves on the world stage - get him out too.

A few other useful points -
the UK is a NET importer from the EU (that means those nations NEED our trade more than we do theirs for clarity)
Many other NON EU Nations - USA, Canada, China etc ALL trade freely with european nations, so being part of a corrupt union is NOT a requirement to trade, Don't let the scaremongering media convince you otherwise.

As for overall feeling - just go and read comments on almost anything regarding this topic - as I have done and you will see there is around a 90-95% overwhelming list of people stating OUT. This is on media articles, politicial facebook pages, like Cameron or Govt page.
Seriously - take a look, the evidence is there for all to see.
Where on this earth these polls are getting their information from to show it so close I really don't know.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:31 AM
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a reply to: facchino


Stop TTIP being implemented which will happen if we remain.



We can only stop ttip if we have influence in the eu. Ttip is more of a danger to uk sovereignty than the eu with tips secret courts away from any public scrutiny.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

Sorry, but no other way of saying this - you are simply wrong.
TTIP WILL be implemented by the EU, and we will be UNABLE to stop it. Its why the US (Obama) is so keen for us to stay in...
Being inside the Union will not allow us any control over it..it genuinely makes me laugh when people think we have any real influence in the corrupt EU - look at Cameron's pathetic "deal"
Had to go begging bowl in hand to ask how the UK can spend IT's OWN MONEY - and be told by Polish leaders it was unacceptable. The things he got still haven't been ratified by the EU Court and are vague at best in their wording anyway.
What a total sham - and for him to come back acting as though he got what he wanted is traitorous to this nation.
It is unacceptable being dictated to regarding such key issues.

Outside the EU, our own government can decide NOT to implement it, or be held accountable if it does.
Will mean we won't have to be dictated to any longer - we can simply agree our own trade, migration, economic and political agreements - with our interests being the prime driver.
edit on 20-3-2016 by facchino because: spacing

edit on 20-3-2016 by facchino because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: facchino I'm pretty sure the uk gov will go with ttip whether in or out of the eu, at least if we are in we can try and stop it. If we are out we have no influence at all



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

Seems the EU has made its mind up
www.independent.co.uk...

Therefore if we are in the EU, we have no choice but to abide by it. Why you think otherwise I do not know, that is not how the EU works? Cannot pick & choose what we abide by...
Yet if we are out - then we, the UK govt, can still decide if its best for our country. Its got huge number of signatures against it that the EU Parliament simply ignored - our Govt will not get away with doing so.

edit on 20-3-2016 by facchino because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 06:26 AM
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originally posted by: facchino
Therefore if we are in the EU, we have no choice but to abide by it. Why you think otherwise I do not know, that is not how the EU works? Cannot pick & choose what we abide by...


As I have said before and probably somewhere on this thread ....*the EU doesn't
do democracy it does Diktats!*

TTIP will undermine national soverinity by hampering governments ability to enact
effective and fair tax systems to finance vital public services.
Heavily redacted documents obtained by the Guardian revealed that European
officials had assisted *Exxon Mobile* that the pending US/EU trade agreement would
force the removal of regulatory 'obstacles 'world wide, thus opening up even more
countries to exploit by the fossil fuel companies.

www.commondreams.org...
edit on 20-3-2016 by eletheia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 06:35 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia
Back on topic.



From 1988 to 2013 it was the US which was the UK's top export partner and
not the EU.Is it now time to seal a comprehensive deal with the US

]


A very interesting and informative post and as one who currently sity on the "IN" side of the fence something I will be giving some consideration to.

I will answer the question you posted above though and say that this is one of the primary reasons I am voting "IN" as it stands.

I do not wish the UK to fall even deeper into the pocket of the US. As I said before I would rather be a member of a corrupt European union than the lap dog of an even more corrupt United states of America.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:04 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

How am I am troll when I came here and very blatantly posted on topic?

Why do you think nobody can read through the rest of the thread and see that all of my 'off topic' replies are responses to others? Therefore you can't call me a troll without you and your pals that thought I was Bernard also being way more trolls than me then.

This Bernard you posted about - can you prove they exist even?

Link me to a thread here with Bernard posting in it, let me see who else you think you can call the troll or the game player. Cause I'm betting any money in those threads too, if they even exist, it'll be way more than obvious that you are causing the responses you claim to be troll posts - by trolling others to begin with.

Correct?

Or can you actually prove Bernard is a real poster, with participation in threads here with you?



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: berenike

originally posted by: nonspecific


You have managed to get into disagreement with 2 people who are in direct conflict with each other regarding this particular topic?


That was quite a feat wasn't it? And highly amusing.

OT

visitors:

I've been reading your posts with great interest and take your points about the lousy infrastructure, dumbing down of the population, too much building etc BUT how do you think uncontrolled immigration doesn't contribute to making things worse?

Services are already scarce and more houses will have to be built to accommodate everybody. And you can bet it won't be the middle to upper classes who suffer. Things will only change if something negatively impacts on them.

It's the lower orders who have incomers competing with them for social services, housing, schooling, health services etc.

I've lived in the City and heard the homeless complaining that there was less for them at even the Salvation Army because of the influx of Eastern Europeans who asked for, and got, so many handouts.

If immigration was limited to people who had some know how, that the native population didn't possess, as to how to cure some of the things that you point out are wrong then it would make sense.

But where is the point in taking in so many who can add nothing to the well-being of the country and its people?

Just so you know, I'd like to see workers such as dustmen, street cleaners and others in the sanitation business getting top wages. Without them the rest of us would be up to our necks in the proverbial and we'd soon have no society to argue about.

Those are the people who are worth their weight in gold.


Fully concur with your comments!




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