The Fingerprint of God; Divine Proportion, architecture of the Universe.

I Believe that the golden ratio and Fibonacci sequence combined with the laws of information with DNA stating that matter cannot give rise to information on its own give evidence towards a creator and/or higher intelligence.

The golden Ratio can be found all throughout nature, it can be found in matter, even the shape of the galaxy, as well as in humans and animals and also in the freezing of ice. It can be found in architecture, music, sound, art, and throughout the heavens above.











"This is a video on the subject of famous mathematical sequence called the Fibonacci numbers. This specific sequence woudn’t be so unusual if not the fact that it appears everywhere in our lives. In natural world, anatomy of the human body, architecture, engineering, art, music, physics, mathematics, mysticism…in a word everywhere. "- youtube description of above video.



A short video continuing information about the Fibonacci sequence and the worlds most mysterious number and examples.




The Thing about the golden ratio, is that it can be found in the embryo of the womb.
Everything even plants use the golden ratio for cell division and multiplication as well as how far apart leaves are from each other.
Everything in existence is in the golden ratio. Not only because it can be found in life, But it can be found in Matter itself.

By tuning the system and artificially introducing more quantum uncertainty the researchers observed that the chain of atoms acts like a nanoscale guitar string. Dr. Radu Coldea from Oxford University, who is the principal author of the paper and drove the international project from its inception a decade ago until the present, explains: "Here the tension comes from the interaction between spins causing them to magnetically resonate. For these interactions we found a series (scale) of resonant notes: The first two notes show a perfect relationship with each other. Their frequencies (pitch) are in the ratio of 1.618…, which is the golden ratio famous from art and architecture." Radu Coldea is convinced that this is no coincidence. "It reflects a beautiful property of the quantum system -- a hidden symmetry. Actually quite a special one called E8 by mathematicians, and this is its first observation in a material," he explains.

This thing can be found everywhere you look. is it coincidence? or evidence of intelligent design?


The search for a scientific adam, in the above Video.

this video is from the documentary god of wonders and can be found on youtube.

Great designers always leave their mark...

“Laminin” for example, are CROSS-SHAPED cells that hold our bodies together.

Codes, however, do not occur without a designer. Chaos can produce patterns, but it has never been shown to produce codes or symbols. Proof that DNA was designed by a mind: (1) DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism. (2) All codes we know the origin of are created by a conscious mind. (3) Therefore DNA was designed by a mind, and language and information are proof of the action of a Superintelligence.

I Can Prove God Exists

The designer is within us, we are the passive receptacle that it uses in order to create the universe. Everything we see is created within our brains, and as Carl Sagan once said: "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself".

We are the golden ratio and what we see is that ratio within us being expressed throughout all of nature. God is within everything, he/she is both the creator and creation at the same time, and we are all individual drops that make up its being.

a reply to: Belcastro

Just to add a interesting read for those who want to see the brush marks within the word of God . E. R. Finck, ed. The Seal of God in Creation and the Word by F. C. Payne. Strathpine, Qld.:
Evangelistic Literature Enterprise, 2000. PDF version god-help.org...

The pure precision of Sacred Geometry is case and point about the intelligence of the universe.

There is absolutely nothing "random" about this thread that permeates all things in existence.

IMHO we are divine beings exploring God's imagination.

There is no end to it and there is no wrong way to play, everything is designed for you to learn.

Excellent thread!

S&F for you

It's interesting that you guys present such a false dichotomy as there is only random chaos or complete order.

I wish I knew why such a dichotomy would be necessary for anything.

The golden ratio is a mathematical constant, it can be found in almost anything at all that is structurally ordered. Neither phi, nor the fibonacci sequence is a code or artificial implant from an external designer, they are perfectly natural mathematical phenomena arising out of the strong law of small numbers.

If the golden ratio does not appear in something, does that mean that thing was not created by a universal intelligence? What leads one to believe simple natural mathematical order must be the product of anything other than nature?

No designer is necessary for these things to appear. I detect the strong scent of phi woo here, and would like to introduce you to the Ramsey Theory.

Please show me an example of the golden ratio appearing somewhere that it should not be expected to, providing mathematical proof that it shouldn't. Also explain what justifies the attribution of the ratio to a universal intelligence when it has been scientifically and mathematically verified to be simply an expected naturally occurring feature of reality. Also, please explain why there are only diametrically opposed states of chaos or order, and not a spectrum of order to disorder depending on the preexisting factors of a given system.

originally posted by: Belcastro
The Fingerprint of God; Divine Proportion, architecture of the Universe.
I Believe

'Beliefs' constantly require 'defense' and 'validation/feeding' and 'spreading'!
Because 'beliefs' are an infection of the imagination/ego, and are completely 'conditional', as are all 'thoughts/concepts'.
For the conditional belief, there is never enough validation/food to satisfy!

'Faith', on the other hand, needs none of this desperate pseudo-scientific, pseudo-rational, 'belief-riddled' 'validation/food'.
Faith is an unconditional Virtue of unconditional Love!
With Faith, none of the above 'belief food' is necessary.

Murgatroid
Great designers always leave their mark...

“Laminin” for example, are CROSS-SHAPED cells that hold our bodies together.

Wow......youve been digging deep into the failed Creationists argument bargin basement.....this is what Laminitis actually look like:

Even Answersingenisis advise to not use this argument for creationism because it's so weak...

a reply to: Belcastro

Excellent compilation of material and interesting topic.

Oftentimes I'd just S & F and remain silent but this was very thought provoking I felt moved to express my gratitude. Bookmarked, this should be an interesting read.

Thank you.

originally posted by: spygeek
The golden ratio is a mathematical constant, it can be found in almost anything at all that is structurally ordered. Neither phi, nor the fibonacci sequence is a code

I agree.

originally posted by: spygeek

Please show me an example of the golden ratio appearing somewhere that it should not be expected to, providing mathematical proof that it shouldn't. Also explain what justifies the attribution of the ratio to a universal intelligence when it has been scientifically and mathematically verified to be simply an expected naturally occurring feature of reality. Also, please explain why there are only diametrically opposed states of chaos or order, and not a spectrum of order to disorder depending on the preexisting factors of a given system.

There is much much more to phi-Phi than even many mathematician see as merely a Math theorem.I am amazed they cannot see something that is so clear yet choose to calculate Phi as:

√5+1÷2=Phi
2.2360679774998+1=3.2360679774998÷2=1.618033988749895……….to infinity

That's the worse version of common core calculations I’ve ever seen for a theorem so significant yet it is the accepted theorem as if there was no other way to calculate Phi like the Fibonacci sequence which is "fluid".However the biggest simple over sight is in the Fibonacci sequence that begins with "4".I call this 4Fn(starts with 4 as Fn0).

4-1-5-6-11-17-28-45-73-118-191-309-500-809…etc

The common Fn sequence (0Fn) significant point is at Fn-Fn12-Fn13 to calculate phi-Phi.
Fn11=89
Fn12=144
Fn13=233

89÷144=0.618055555555……repeat to infinity
233÷144=1.618055555555……repeat to infinity

When Fn11 and Fn13 are divided by Fn12 is when phi-Phi remains a constant 618.It only reached 618 once before in Fn1-Fn11 calculations.However the same principle does not hold true with 4Fn calculation even though again Fn11-Fn12-Fn13 figure strongly in the equation.In all other calculations of ph-Phi it is an irrational number(meaning it never resolves for infinity).However this is not true in 4Fn calculations because phi-Phi is not an irrational number. example:

Fn11=309
Fn12=500
Fn13=809

309÷500=0.618
809÷500=1.618


I think the sacred geometry secret coders are religious mystics that have done nothing more than co-opted the natural laws of math to justify their flaky mystic religious theories.However if there was a creator God it would only make sense that the physical realm would be “encoded” with this natural ratio for how EVERYTHING grows or deviates.In all my calculations I have not seen a stronger candidate for a name such as divine proportion.In effect it looks like a huge fingerprint across the universe.The irony is it cannot prove there is a God yet everything points directly to it that it does.

However that isn’t the point.A true creator God would have no need to prove themselves to justify their existence.That is a human characteristic.To me it only makes sense if there was as you said ...a pattern with phi-Phi where it doesn’t play a natural mathematical applications .The fact is …there is.It is a million miles away from both mathematicians and theologians even though the subject is connected to both of their endeavors.

In one sense neither can be blamed for their ignorance because it doesn’t seem to fit into either yet it does…perfectly…and the number of times it lines up is mind boggling(at least to me).It is worthy of a novel(albeit extremely boring).Here is just the tip of the iceberg I posted at ATS .The 1st is at the top of the page the rest is at the bottom.If you do decide to read it please read all of it.There is much more information than it looks like and it is only the beginning. I could spend the rest of my life calculating it(thank God I’m not going to)

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[

a reply to: Belcastro

Good post and interesting proposition, I haven't viewed the videos yet, but I am familiar with the subject.
And Sacred Geometry is a fascinating one!
Is it possible for you to provide evidence to back up the following statement though?

the laws of information with DNA stating that matter cannot give rise to information on its own

Sorry to quote you out of context, but I am particularly interested in the bit about matter not being able to give rise to information on its own.
Thanks

a reply to: spygeek

I have not heard of "The strong law of small numbers" so thought I would check out the link you posted.

The golden ratio is a mathematical constant, it can be found in almost anything at all that is structurally ordered. Neither phi, nor the fibonacci sequence is a code or artificial implant from an external designer, they are perfectly natural mathematical phenomena arising out of the strong law of small numbers.

So in other words phi would be perfectly natural mathematical phenomena arising out of "mathematical folklore"

Guy's observation has since become part of mathematical folklore, and is commonly referenced by other authors

Also I fail to see what the Ramsey Theory has to do with the OP, in layman's terms it states that given enough data you can find patterns in anything, fair enough, I can see how that would explain explain supposed lay-lines and such, but what does that have to do with phi?

originally posted by: Rex282

I think the sacred geometry secret coders are religious mystics that have done nothing more than co-opted the natural laws of math to justify their flaky mystic religious theories.

Exactly.

However if there was a creator God it would only make sense that the physical realm would be “encoded” with this natural ratio for how EVERYTHING grows or deviates.

If there wasn't a creator, it still makes perfect sense that the physical realm contains this fundamental ratio. The ratio itself is not evidence of a creator God, it is simply evidence of the mathematically elegant structure of reality.

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, making up around three quarters of its mass. Does this imply that there is a creator, because He would use the same element in the composition of almost everything? That would be a very similar "argument from design".

In all my calculations I have not seen a stronger candidate for a name such as divine proportion.In effect it looks like a huge fingerprint across the universe.The irony is it cannot prove there is a God yet everything points directly to it that it does.

Coming up with "divine proportion" and then attributing phi to it is backwards. No mathematical formula or sequence can justifiably be said to suggest a creator or design any more than natural processes. My argument is that it only looks like a fingerprint if you are assuming there is required to be one in the first place. It has been shown and explained scientifically how this ratio can occur perfectly naturally. It is a fingerprint of natural processes more than it could be a fingerprint of God or intelligent design.

However that isn’t the point.A true creator God would have no need to prove themselves to justify their existence.That is a human characteristic.To me it only makes sense if there was as you said ...a pattern with phi-Phi where it doesn’t play a natural mathematical applications .The fact is …there is.It is a million miles away from both mathematicians and theologians even though the subject is connected to both of their endeavors.

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here. Can you eloborate on this "pattern with phi-Phi where is doesn't play a natural applications", and how it is "a million miles away from mathematicians"?

In one sense neither can be blamed for their ignorance because it doesn’t seem to fit into either yet it does…perfectly…and the number of times it lines up is mind boggling(at least to me).It is worthy of a novel(albeit extremely boring).Here is just the tip of the iceberg I posted at ATS .The 1st is at the top of the page the rest is at the bottom.If you do decide to read it please read all of it.There is much more information than it looks like and it is only the beginning. I could spend the rest of my life calculating it(thank God I’m not going to)

www.abovetopsecret.com...
[

A cursory look over the thread and your contributions reveals that is steeped in numerology. You can find as many mathematical patterns "embedded" in literally anything, as you like. The significance of these patterns is subjective and contrived.

It is quite interesting but nothing can really be inferred by it. The thread reminds me of this kind of mystical mathematics:


That's my initial impression, however i will read through the thread more thoroughly and see what i can see.

Phi woo is common, it and the Fibonacci sequence are steeped in unwarranted mystery and supernatural significance by some, it is wise to be aware of this when making an objective evaluation of this kind of information.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: spygeek

I have not heard of "The strong law of small numbers" so thought I would check out the link you posted.

The golden ratio is a mathematical constant, it can be found in almost anything at all that is structurally ordered. Neither phi, nor the fibonacci sequence is a code or artificial implant from an external designer, they are perfectly natural mathematical phenomena arising out of the strong law of small numbers.

So in other words phi would be perfectly natural mathematical phenomena arising out of "mathematical folklore"

Guy's observation has since become part of mathematical folklore, and is commonly referenced by other authors

Phi is not "arising out of mathematical folklore", it is arising out of mathematical investigation. The law of small numbers is a humorously phrased but still mathematically legitimate law that has become a part of mathematical folklore, following the acceptance of Guy's paper. The definition of Mathematical Folklore is:

As the term is understood by mathematicians, folk mathematics or mathematical folklore means theorems, definitions, proofs, or mathematical facts or techniques that are found by investigation and may circulate among mathematicians by word-of-mouth but have not appeared in print, either in books or in scholarly journals. Knowledge of folklore is the coin of the realm of academic mathematics, showing relative insight of investigators.

Mathematical folklore does not carry the same definition as theological folklore. It is essentially a theorem, proof or fact that has been widely accepted and referenced by mathematicians without being widely published in journals or print. Basically it is taken as a given by those who understand it, and passed along informally.

Also I fail to see what the Ramsey Theory has to do with the OP, in layman's terms it states that given enough data you can find patterns in anything, fair enough, I can see how that would explain explain supposed lay-lines and such, but what does that have to do with phi?

Ramsey Theory describes how patterns or sequences are expected to show up in many unrelated places independently. It is essentially an extension of the law of small numbers, and proves that just because a given sequence or ratio is common amoung many or all things, it is not outside of what can be naturally expected to occur. By applying Ramsey Theory to the argument of the OP, one can see how it is not indicative of anything unexpected or supernatural.

a reply to: spygeek

Thanks for the piece of Aaronovski's film, that was really interesting.

Does it give the word equivalent to π?

a reply to: spygeek
Thanks for clearing that up about mathematical folklore, its a surprising term to give to a theorem or fact. But I suppose if its circulated by word-of-mouth and not necessarily printed or published, the term makes some sense.

I think I understand your argument much better now, would I be right in thinking your essentially saying that science has proved there is no creator? Or is it that because phi just happens to be embedded in so much, there is no reason why it shouldn't be anyway, and therefore there is no creator?

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: spygeek

Thanks for the piece of Aaronovski's film, that was really interesting.

Does it give the word equivalent to π?

There is no hebrew word equivalent of pi. Hebrew does not employ decimal numbers.

You could round pi down to 3 like the bible does, and get the Hebrew letter gimel, however. Or you could remove the decimal point and spell out many, infinitely long, nonsensical words that mean nothing.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: spygeek
Thanks for clearing that up about mathematical folklore, its a surprising term to give to a theorem or fact. But I suppose if its circulated by word-of-mouth and not necessarily printed or published, the term makes some sense.

Indeed the term can be misleading to some, this is unfortunate.

I think I understand your argument much better now, would I be right in thinking your essentially saying that science has proved there is no creator? Or is it that because phi just happens to be embedded in so much, there is no reason why it shouldn't be anyway, and therefore there is no creator?

Not quite. My argument is that it is not rational to assume a creator simply because of mathematical ratios existing in nature. Phi, and the fibonacci sequence are not inferential evidence of a creator, and to claim such is unjustified.

Science takes no position on whether there is or not a creator, as such a creator would be beyond any naturalistic explanation or investigation.

What scientific method can do is investigate and evaluate specific claims made about a creator and His actions in the natural world and test the plausibility and rationality of such claims, (such as creationism and intelligent design, global flooding, resurrection, answering of prayers etc.)

There may be a creator, but if so, He is not physically present in any recognisable way and His actions are indistinguishable from natural processes; He is not an interventionist God if He does exist, as far as material science can deduce.

a reply to: spygeek

There is no hebrew word equivalent of pi. Hebrew does not employ decimal numbers. You could round pi down to 3 like the bible does, and get the Hebrew letter gimel, however. Or you could remove the decimal point and spell out an infinitely long, nonsensical word that means nothing.

Oh really. Interesting opinion, so I guess Aaronovski just chose that as a title for his movie out of ignorance then.

Added:

Hebrew does not employ decimal numbers. You could round pi down to 3 like the bible does,

Where do you get that from? Geometry is the basis of biblical linguistics. The book of Numbers is quite explicit about not rounding pi to three.

a reply to: spygeek
Thanks for your astute and well thought out reply, much appreciated, there's food for thought here indeed. Great stuff! I will reply properly with thoughts soonish, but to tired right now.
Cheers

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: spygeek

There is no hebrew word equivalent of pi. Hebrew does not employ decimal numbers. You could round pi down to 3 like the bible does, and get the Hebrew letter gimel, however. Or you could remove the decimal point and spell out an infinitely long, nonsensical word that means nothing.

Oh really. Interesting opinion, so I guess Aaronovski just chose that as a title for his movie out of ignorance then.

It is fact not opinion that the Hebrew alphabet does not use decimal numbers to represent letter characers. Not Aronofski nor his film suggest it does..

He chose the title because it is the story of a mathematician's obsessive quest to find a fundamental pattern in pi.

Hebrew does not employ decimal numbers. You could round pi down to 3 like the bible does,

Where do you get that from? Geometry is the basis of biblical linguistics. The book of Numbers is quite explicit about not rounding pi to three.

I got it from the measurements in 1 Kings 7:23, and 2 Chronicles 4:2.

Could you point out the passages in the book of numbers that explicitly mention not rounding pi to 3? I am unaware of this..