Scots Police Teach US Cops How To Avoid Gun Use

a reply to: ReadLeader

And that is close minded..the "many unarmed" part has relevance here, I do get what your saying in general..in a country loaded so to speak with guns..police just shoot first..reap it I guess.

a reply to: nonspecific

My point is really quite simple.
Comparing policing in Scotland to policing in many big cities in the US is comparing apples to oranges.
Policing in Scotland is "policing"; watching out for the tipsy and the occasional burglar and breaking up a bar room brawl.

Policing in Chicago is more similar to the British Army action in Northern Ireland against the IRA. The real truth is that the big problem with "policing" in the US is that the government is using the police in situations where in reality, they should have declared martial law 20 years ago and sent in the Marines.

The fact of this virulent and extremely violent level of criminality is nothing to be proud of, but by the same token, the average law abiding working bloke isn't to blame for the situation either. Its the government's fault, plain and simple.

a reply to: crazyewok

Is hard to imagine how UK policing techniques would work in US at all due to the differences in culture and most importantly the differences in gun ownership. That said I am sure there are some negotiation skills that are transferable sharing knowledge can only be a good thing.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: angryhulk

I'd really like to see Scotts police try that in South Chicago! Oh, really......I'd PAY to see that. Send some over to give it a go, but please send them equipped with their own body bags. Body bags is getting expensive in Illinois.

Same with anumber of cities. There are areas in Detroit where you don't stop for lights or stop signs. There is no way I would accept a DPD job without a sidearm.

a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

The problem is that in some areas of the US there is every chance that drunken lout has a concealed gun. Not condoning the number of people getting shot by the police in the US (much of which is clearly down to inadequate training) but think it has to be acknowledged that the situation is very different from the UK.

a reply to: crazyewok

Just don't believe everything you hear that comes out of here. Those "many" that are unarmed are also the ones that tried to go for weapons, or had a heart attack while resisting, or threw a hissy fit in a patty wagon and hurt themselves over it. I'd be willing to bet also, that those "many" out of 1,000 is probably no more than 15 or 20. Those police probably went to Scotland for the free trip. I would have.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

True, but just not convinced how well techniques that work when the likelihood of the offender having a gun is so low will work when the likelihood is that much higher.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Of course it is, and no one is denying that.

I think the point of this training ought to be, to remind officers that drawing their sidearm should be something they do when they know there is a threat, rather than well before hand, or in the absence of one. It is training designed to ensure they understand that only a gun or projectile weapon poses a threat to a proper law enforcer, because professionals disarm opponents who try to use melee weapons. Only a looser shoots a man with a knife, unless that individual has a hostage, in which case the situation may differ.

a reply to: TrueBrit
Sorry but I disagree with that. If someone comes at you with a knife and you have a gun, you use the gun. The idea that police should be able to easily and safely disarm someone who is genuinely trying to kill them with a knife or other weapon is just wrong.
What the training should do is allow them better to distinguish those are real risks and talk down those who are not.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

Exactly. According to some here Scotland is all fluffy bunnies and rainbows with no crime AT ALL.....

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

Exactly. According to some here Scotland is all fluffy bunnies and rainbows with no crime AT ALL.....

Don't recall ever reading any posts that Scotland has no crime at all. And some of those fluffy bunnies are just mental.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

Exactly. According to some here Scotland is all fluffy bunnies and rainbows with no crime AT ALL.....

Don't recall ever reading any posts that Scotland has no crime at all. And some of those fluffy bunnies are just mental.

Anyone who has been on the wrong end of a buckfast fuelled Weegie will know exactly what fear is, they don't need guns.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Oh come ON!

What kind of barbarian shoots a man when he could just take his blade off him? A carbon fibre flick rod is the most a trained professional should ever require to do that job.

The Scottish police are not at risk of being shot every time they engage the public.

Apples and oranges.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: ScepticScot

Oh come ON!

What kind of barbarian shoots a man when he could just take his blade off him? A carbon fibre flick rod is the most a trained professional should ever require to do that job.

The kind of barbarian who has ever seen what a knife in the guts actually does to a person. Even the most highly trained professionals or martial arts experts aren't guaranteed to successfully disarm an attacker even under ideal circumstances. And people are rarely attacked under ideal circumstances.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

True, but just not convinced how well techniques that work when the likelihood of the offender having a gun is so low will work when the likelihood is that much higher.

According to the numbers:

Scotland had 374 gun related incidents in 2014 per 4 million people. Which is .0001%

The USA had 51,792 gun related incidents in 2014 per 330 million people. Which is .0002%

Not really THAT big of a difference when the population is taken into account.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Cypress

This is not about not having a side arm. This is about learning to handle unarmed, or rudimentarily armed opponents, without drawing ones sidearm. If one cannot disarm a knife wielding druggy, or a drunken lout with a brick, without shooting them, then one should not be a professional law enforcer. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I think that Scotland is a good place to learn this kind of policing.

I am guessing that most people outside of the UK are unaware of how Violent some areas of Scotland actually are.

Exactly. According to some here Scotland is all fluffy bunnies and rainbows with no crime AT ALL.....

Don't recall ever reading any posts that Scotland has no crime at all. And some of those fluffy bunnies are just mental.

Anyone who has been on the wrong end of a buckfast fuelled Weegie will know exactly what fear is, they don't need guns.

Yeah but it's made by monks so it just be good for you really.

originally posted by: Restricted
The Scottish police are not at risk of being shot every time they engage the public.

Apples and oranges.

See my post above this one......