New Testament original texts, where are they?

a reply to: Akragon

Because the meter tells you when the Second Coming of Christ will be. I think I've found in in Matt 24-25, but I have to test my accounting.

Even if the original gospels were found it still wouldn't answer why there isn't any supporting evidence that Jesus existed from first century historians ((Philo-Judaeus etc)). So if Jesus did exist we must assume that the early Christian movement paled in comparison to the Sadducees, Pharisees and Essenes until Paul started spreading its word throughout Europe. The question then needs to be asked, did Paul kick start Christianity or did he modify it with his own ideology. The wealth and power of today's churches does seem worlds apart to the man who rode a donkey into Bethlehem.

a reply to: glend
Paul was Balaam like John that Baptist was Elijah.

a reply to: glend
Paul never shows anything that suggests he ever spoke to Christ. I believe he was sent by the Pharisees to sabotage the message of Christ and focus Christianity on Paul. Why do we need Paul to teach us about Jesus when we Know more about him than he did?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Because the meter tells you when the Second Coming of Christ will be. I think I've found in in Matt 24-25, but I have to test my accounting.

Well... I don't know about that one...

Im more of the belief that they won't release certain texts because it would completely alter Christianity...

IF not destroy it utterly

a reply to: Akragon
Because it's anti-dogmatic and threatening to the church that Jesus was just the Messiah, servant of God not the Son. And not God, there is no godhead, mary probably wasn't a virgin(see alma) and Paul was a spy.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Because the meter tells you when the Second Coming of Christ will be. I think I've found in in Matt 24-25, but I have to test my accounting.

Well... I don't know about that one...

Im more of the belief that they won't release certain texts because it would completely alter Christianity...

IF not destroy it utterly

That part is true too. When mapped out as a timeline, Matt 24 highlights a procession of false prophets who lead to the formation of Proto-Catholicism. Again, I'm still piecing it together.

a reply to: areyousirius360

Paul never shows anything that suggests he ever spoke to Christ. I believe he was sent by the Pharisees to sabotage the message of Christ and focus Christianity on Paul. Why do we need Paul to teach us about Jesus when we Know more about him than he did?

He certainly wrote his name down a few times (200+ times) but how can one determine truth from 2000 years of Roman modifications and interference? I certainly would love see the Vatican open their libraries to the public but not holding my breath.

originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: chr0naut
I never asked about anything but the new testament. Are you a fundamental?

No.

a reply to: areyousirius360

There are many accounts of Roman history that can only be known through the historians who also wrote their accounts at a remove similar to the ones of the Apostles of the Gospel. Why don't you go rail at historians for accepting those accounts as actual history?

Here you are instead railing at people who are taking things on faith which, last I checked was not a fact-based exercise. You either have faith or you do not.

If you want to get upset over the acceptance of things based on texts that have little real world evidence to support them, go rail at ancient historians.

originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: chr0naut N
Not according to the Vatican. Registered by who? Where are they? Who wrote them?

Registration assigns P-numbers to manuscripts according to the Gregory-Alland system. P-numbers are being added all the time as new archaeological finds come to light. P134 was added to the list in 2015.

The official owners of the Gregory-Alland list is the Society of Biblical Literature in Atlanta.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That part is true too. When mapped out as a timeline, Matt 24 highlights a procession of false prophets who lead to the formation of Proto-Catholicism. Again, I'm still piecing it together.

Curious about this, will you be starting a thread? Or would you be prepared to talk more in private message?

Thanks to everyone who cleared up my dead sea question, my suspicion is they are hidden by the Vatican.

a reply to: errorcode

You can read the DSS at bibliotecapleyades.com

a reply to: chr0naut
I have no faith in that whatsoever.

a reply to: ketsuko
I'm not doing any railing, I'm asking logical questions. When did that become a problem? No one seems to be mad but you.

a reply to: areyousirius360

a reply to: Seede That's the best answer I have heard so far. But IF it is true then somewhere out there are texts well nevercsee or hear about. And IF it's true somewhere out there are Hebrew or Aramaic texts that would prove it. I have no doubt they would keep the most valuable information to themselves. Like the Septuagint, they got the Mosaic books but they kept the rest in Hebrew. Later o the rest would be translated but always with subtle flagrant erroneous small but important changes.

Yes there must be other Hebrew autographs yet not discovered and there is the possibility that they are hidden from the world by those who would not want verification of Christianity or at best to protect their own doctrines of philosophy. As much as I love people of all faiths, there are some who would want Jesus on the tree again.

The Hebrew and Aramaic texts that were used to create the Septuagint are also lost to the dismay of the world. What we see today is not the same Septuagint of 250 BCE and we must not forget that it was only Torah that was first translated into the 250 BCE Greek Septuagint. It was not the entire Tanakh as it stands today. That which we call the Old Testament. Actually we have nothing of either the OT or NT autographs. All we have are manuscripts and copies of copies. The dead sea scrolls could have some original fragments but nothing to really confirm an autograph. I believe that Christ Jesus knew all of this and was the reason He preached faith as our primary tool in this entire salvation message.

a reply to: ketsuko
You go rail I don't know how to do that. I think you have a problem with my asking question that nobody wants asked. YOU should rail against the historians.

a reply to: errorcode

I'd like to start a thread on the subject, but at this time, my research is a pile of disorganized hand written notes and transliterated parsed text. I might start an introductory thread and follow up with it as I progress. When I do, I will invite you.

a reply to: Seede
That's my problem. Not even God protected the originals. Never mind people. That's how little it mattered. Not very infallible is it.

a reply to: Seede
Truth be told his primary message was love. Faith is important but his message was to love God...and love your neighbors...