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New Testament original texts, where are they?

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posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: Agree2DisagreeYeah don't be mad at me for making a logical statement and pointing out a legitimate problem in proving someone existed, like a written account by people who met him. Because we don't believe people existed historically without evidence, why would we believe in Jesus, who allegedly was a historical person and the most important one ever, without the same kind of proof.
Bringing up Jewish oral tradition and Talmud is not even related to the topic. It's an irrelevant comparison and I even excluded the old Testament because only in the new Testament is God a historical person with parents who lived among the people. We know so much about so many people who existed before Christ because we have evidence. Jesus has never been discovered by these methods and he was God. If that makes you angry it's because it's a burden on Christianity to have to explain why these accounts were not preserved and why he isn't present in the historical record.




posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: areyousirius360

The simple answer to your enquiry, «why are there no originals left?», is that papyrus only lasts that long, especially the sort of papyrus most early fragments are made from-- and more durable parchment was an extremely expensive alternative. That's why these texts were continuously copied and recopied. And since the maximum life expectancy of a book written on papyrus is anywhere between 500 and 1000 years, given it remains virtually unhandled and properly secured-- well to say the least, if any of these books remained intact until this day, it would be a bleeding miracle. And also worth considering is the fact that the keepers of these books were hunted down by people like st. Paul who would destroy any Christian document they'd come across. Oral transmission was better in that respect, for it's easier to destroy a book or ten than to destroy whole communities who would memorise the books and stories. The early Christians were living books. Literally.
edit on 31-1-2016 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtimya nobody was writing on papyrus. We HAVE the Dead Sea Scrolls and they are older, so that doesn't hold water.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:41 PM
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when you find an ORIGINAL TEXT let me know



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: BELIEVERpriestWho is justifying his faith? I'm not. I have faith in God, not so much the bible.



Do you have faith that God preserved his words in a book you can hold in your hand today?


Psalm 12 6,7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


Your God you profess faith in promised to keep them from the time of David until forever, so where is this preserved Book of Gods words at?


edit on 31-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Just as he told Jeremiah: "..."I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts......"

That is where it is. You need a key to get to it though.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: queenofswords

I am not Jew and that is who that verse refers too. And that wont take place until the gathering of the body of Christ takes place. And that aint happened yet.

No Key needed.

I have his words in my heart because I read them every day the preserved words just as he promised.




edit on 31-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: queenofswordsThe Holy Spirit is God on earth, he blesses the minds of those who ask with discernment. God doesn't make magic.books that can't be tampered with, edited, re-edited or anything like that. God is everywhere and doesn't stipulate that we rely on 2000 years worth of trust in people who could very likely have been corrupt with agendas. Faith is believing without knowing so a book that is "proof" isn't faith in God, it's faith in a book.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: BELIEVERpriestWho is justifying his faith? I'm not. I have faith in God, not so much the bible.



Do you believe Jesus was God in the flesh? Your op seems to indicate that you do. If so, you are believing in words that were allegedly copied from the original text.

So again, if the absence of the original NT is such a problem, then why believe in Jesus at all?

You don't have to answer that question, but just think about it.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

NT Heb. 10:16 - "This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:17 PM
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a reply to: queenofswordsGod's true proof of existence is us. He made us, and we've known him since we were born. We forgot about him when people pushed the bible on us. Then we believe again later on. Then we read the bible and realized it was a book by people featuring a vicious, nasty demon who kills and orders killings and is more like Caligula than the nice God of Jesus. People say they are the same, I say there is one God, I don't know his name, but I know it's not YHWH. Also the 12 Apostles are the zodiac and Christ is Ophiucus, the healer and serpent bearer(serpent is a symbol for healing)



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: queenofswordsThe Holy Spirit is God on earth, he blesses the minds of those who ask with discernment. God doesn't make magic.books that can't be tampered with, edited, re-edited or anything like that. God is everywhere and doesn't stipulate that we rely on 2000 years worth of trust in people who could very likely have been corrupt with agendas. Faith is believing without knowing so a book that is "proof" isn't faith in God, it's faith in a book.



What on earth do you think discernment is for? It's not so you can make up whatever you would prefer to believe out of whole cloth. It's so you can look at the Word and divide it rightly.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriestI really don't know. I highly doubt it because Jesus never says " I am God in the flesh" The prophecy of the Messiah never required a virgin birth (error Matthew, Septuagint) God's son, or God in the flesh.
He says some cryptic stuff that people point to and say "look" but nothing that makes him God.
In fact Jesus admonished a disciple just for calling him good. Imagine if someone called him God. I think that is what it originally said because Jesus WAS good, so why would that upset him.
I bet my last dollar he was admonishing the disciple for calling him God, and when the church promoted Jesus to God in the flesh, made the necessary edits. Which would be a good reason why we don't have the original.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: queenofswordsGod's true proof of existence is us. He made us, and we've known him since we were born. We forgot about him when people pushed the bible on us. Then we believe again later on. Then we read the bible and realized it was a book by people featuring a vicious, nasty demon who kills and orders killings and is more like Caligula than the nice God of Jesus. People say they are the same, I say there is one God, I don't know his name, but I know it's not YHWH. Also the 12 Apostles are the zodiac and Christ is Ophiucus, the healer and serpent bearer(serpent is a symbol for healing)



I believe The Bible has stones of truth in it, but I also think it has been tampered with to achieve someone's agenda, so there are bricks held together by bitumen throughout its pages. This is just how I currently think and feel.

The Divine is not found in a building, especially one made of bricks of dogma and doctrine.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
It's for calling BS where I see BS. BS.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: queenofswordsI agree 100%. You don't need a fancy building and some dude to know God. People lie, cheat and steal in the name of God every day. Discernment is what is needed to extract those truths from the words in scripture.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: queenofswordsI agree 100%. You don't need a fancy building and some dude to know God. People lie, cheat and steal in the name of God every day. Discernment is what is needed to extract those truths from the words in scripture.



That very last sentence...
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: ketsuko
It's for calling BS where I see BS. BS.


Well then what is the point of this thread? You seem offended that you cannot convince more of us to laud you on having discovered something. You aren't the first and you won't be the last to find all kinds of excuses for why you think you should lack faith.

However, I find a common theme in your posts where you seem to keep accusing God of not preserving the Word better. If you don't believe, then there is nothing to believe in. Why so angry at a God who does not exist, as you say?

You simply do what I tend to do with a lot of the alien or cryptid posts, conclude that there is no there there and move on. Instead, you have now spent seven pages angry at God for not preserving His word. If you have concluded that He's not there, you look silly.

Or put another way, if I am convinced that Bigfoot does not exist, it doesn't make me look smart to post in a bunch of Bigfoot threads about how I'm so mad that Bigfoot didn't do a better job of leaving evidence of its existence when everyone knows I don't think it exists in the first place.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
What divisions have you made to the bible? Discernment is for seperating mans words from Gods thoughts. Or for figuring out that the Jews weren't monotheistic until the Persians taught them about it. And duality, Jews used to assign good and evil to YHWH. Now it's satan. That's for Talmudic Jews, orthodox Torah Jews have a different version of satan than even Christianity. Jewish Ha-Satan just means the adversary, it's not even a name. In regular instances where the OT would say enemy or adversary, the word would be satan. Ha Satan is the title of one of YHWH's employees and not HIS adversary but ours.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
I don't know but you're being confrontational you need to chill out. The purpose of this thread is on page one. It's to talk about why we don't have the original texts even though we had the ability to preserve them.
You don't have to be a fundamental Christian to post on religion. Just like you don't need to be an alien to post on ufo's. If my question makes you angry take it up with God. Let me know what he says.




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