Army Officer on Oregon Killing: 'This could be the First Shot of 2nd American Revolution'

Saw the video of the shooting, earlier tonight.

Looks like "suicide by cop" to me. It is true, he leaves the truck with both hands in the air... but then puts his hands down and starts reaching inside his coat.

I kinda hate saying this... but it was a good shoot. I think he was throwing himself on his sword.

All that said... things are at near boiling now in the U.S. We have a level of lawlessness within government, Federal, State and local, unlike anything we have seen in our lifetimes.

Sadly... violence is what the .Gov is hoping for... they know how to respond to violence. They don't know how to respond to mass non-violent civil disobedience. In a NVCD scenario... if the Gov takes ANY action against those with a fair grievance... public opinion moves against them wholesale.

Violence without serious civil disobedience FIRST, plays into "their" hands.

It looks like LaVoy had his hands up in the air, did not charge at the officers like some have claimed and was struggling to keep his footing in the deep snow.

That could be interpreted as "reaching into his jacket" but the narrative of events keeps changing so fast I don't know what to believe.

Also over 120 bullets were fired at the vehicles... I think that raises questions in itself.



Here's my question;

Fight training
Pepper spray
Taser
Bean bag rounds
Rubber bullets
Disabling shot

Straight to a lethal shot.

originally posted by: Konduit
Here's my question;

Fight training
Pepper spray
Taser
Bean bag rounds
Rubber bullets
Disabling shot

Straight to a lethal shot.

When someone is drawing a pistol to shoot you, you stop them. Fast.

a reply to: hellobruce

It's an observation of police in general in 'Merica. Is it standard procedure to use a hail of bullets to try to stop a vehicle?

Hell, El Chapo didn't even get it that bad. I think these guys were looking for a firefight.

a reply to: diggindirt
The ptb do not give a damn about the constitution, it is only a piece of paper after all. Those who care for the constitution and are prepared to fight for it will end up dead as they are by far out gunned and out manuvered and the general American public are niether trained or able to fight a vicious gorilla war and the majority of them are far to emotional weak as well. If any state suceeded in kicking the federal government out then they would probally be bombed to oblivian just as a warning to any others that dared defied the ptb. The ptb want to decrease the population of America and so a civil war would serve their purpose and then they would officially shead that pesky constitution.

a reply to: dasman888
What we saw was an example of non-violent civil disobedience. There are numerous videos of the exchanges between the feds and the protesters. None show any violence or threats of violence.
This was a set-up to take out the leadership. The Feds used violence. Deliberately.
These meeting being held to educate people about their rights were drawing crowds of hundreds in counties of thousands. That scares the political machine right out of its slumbers.
Watch a few of the video interviews with Levoy. He wasn't a person spouting hate, but a man of truth who spoke of coming together for the good of the people. That is a direct threat to the current political system.
When they realized the movement was spreading to other counties---it was time to take action.
Four hundred people had gathered in the next county to hear what these guys had to say. How many raving lunatics do you know who can draw a crowd of 400 people in a county of 7000?
That's why the media is calling this a shoot-out. Because the demonization of men who speak the truth and carry weapons must continue apace. They threaten the current political order of thieves and psychopaths.

I have not been able yet to watch the video in any quality that would allow me to make a decision. Is that really the best they can do? Perhaps one of our fine video people can pull out the relevant frames to make a case one way or the other. Is the shooter the one on the left of the screen? If so, isn't he shooting directly toward his buddies on the road? I was always told that was very bad form. Did Dick Cheney train these guys?

It seems to me they know quite well how to respond to a non-violent civil disobedience incident---shoot somebody. Kent State sent a lot of us home to think. Violence is a very effective tool on non-violent people.

The narrative that these "occupiers" were just good and true American citizens trying to get some sort of word out is simply false.

The story they're selling is as old as our Republic. There have always been those that hate our system of government and our Constitution. There have always been those that think they are so special (in this case, because of their religion and family history) that they shouldn't be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

These guys were not "a threat" they were an annoyance to the local citizens and the People of Oregon. They were not welcome, they were not invited, and they had absolutely no right to do what they did.

They were also not, in any legal sense of the term a "militia." Militias are commanded by the Governors or after 1903 by the President of the United States.

I feel sorry for Mr. Finicum. He seemed to have a death wish. However, what is not tolerable is that he put so many other lives at stake because of his ideology. I sincerely hope no one else follows in his example.

originally posted by: Konduit
Is it standard procedure to use a hail of bullets to try to stop a vehicle?

When was their "a hail of bullets"?

I think these guys were looking for a firefight.

yes, the idiot killed said he would not be arrested, so he certainly was looking for a fight!

a reply to: Qspeedyrock
I concur with your opinions of tptb.
As for those of us who believe the Constitution is worth standing up for, we're all gonna cross over that river someday.
There is no need to fight a civil war. There is a need for mass civil disobedience. If all those abused by federal powers join together instead of snarking at each other on social media, the dragon could be seriously wounded.
My great-grandmother spent the bulk of her adult life advocating for the right of women to vote. She was a very old lady by the time she saw that goal realized.
Violence is never the correct path. It never leads to peace, only to surrender.
My inspiration for activism was Dr. King and JFK. Two men who advocated peace. Both shot in the head in public.
The anti-war movement was non-violent. The soldiers at Kent State shot anyway.
But they never shot anyone for occupying a government building. Or fleeing from them when they started bashing heads.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The narrative that these "occupiers" were just good and true American citizens trying to get some sort of word out is simply false.

The story they're selling is as old as our Republic. There have always been those that hate our system of government and our Constitution. There have always been those that think they are so special (in this case, because of their religion and family history) that they shouldn't be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

These guys were not "a threat" they were an annoyance to the local citizens and the People of Oregon. They were not welcome, they were not invited, and they had absolutely no right to do what they did.

They were also not, in any legal sense of the term a "militia." Militias are commanded by the Governors or after 1903 by the President of the United States.

I feel sorry for Mr. Finicum. He seemed to have a death wish. However, what is not tolerable is that he put so many other lives at stake because of his ideology. I sincerely hope no one else follows in his example.

The sad commentary on what you have said is that there will most likely be others that die now because they will believe the narrative that he was executed and they will see it as their "God given orders" to defend the SovCit way of life and ideals to the death. I foresee a few using this as a rally cry to get themselves placed in pine boxes for no real reason other than blind adherence to their dogma.

No one in this situation was shot for occupying a Federal building. In fact, the authorities both local and Federal showed far more restraint and patience in the situation than were prudent.

Mr. Finicum was shot for, among other things, assaulting a LEO with a deadly weapon. He also evaded arrest, endangered others, and failed to comply with commands to stand down. Also, he stated multiple times, in advance, that he would not be arrested, and that he preferred to go down fighting.

Sadly, it seems, he was able to create the scenario he wanted.

a reply to: annalisa2016

Yes exactly. That is the continuing potential for sadness. That, and the fact that some have been hoodwinked by others into thinking they're standing up for the American way, when in fact, they are merely outlaws suffering and dying at the behest of others (like the Bundys) that are using them for their own self-centered agendas.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Youre interpretation of what the militia is, is patently false. The national guard is not the militia.

Here in Texas for example we have the regular militia (Texas State Guard) and irregular militia both under command of the Governor.

As far as the video is concerned the key fact to discern will be when shots were first fired which can not be discerned from this footage without audio or enough clarity to see muzzle flashes / moving weapon actions...

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Yeah, when an irrational gun nut is blaming Obama again for the actions of irrational gun nuts you can pretty much guarantee that the person speaking that nonsense has absolutely no credibility.

These nutters seem to think the POTUS micro manages every little thing going on in the country, it's truly ridiculous and just proves that this isn't so much about what's happening there, it's really just about the ranting paranoid delusions of the average right-wing crazy.

I was willing to pay some attention to this suggestion at the start, because I know a thing or two about the spiral of chaos which is always possible in instances like this, but the motivations of this idiot make him just another biased fool not worthy of anyone's attention.

Here's what I think is likely to happen...

Militias will increase, rhetoric and threats will increase, there might be a sporadic incident here or there as the more nutty of the right-wing start becoming more brazen and desperate in their actions, but the US government will put down all these little fires all around the country, and they'll do so calmly and quietly.

Here's what the irrational right-wing don't seem to get - 90% of the "support" they're getting on line will never translate to actual support in the real world. The Bundy's and their rag tag bunch of yeehawdists didn't consider this fact, and that's why they resorted to screaming into cameras and writing long Facebook posts calling everyone out for not showing up.

Most people involved in this movement (like plenty of the same ranting crazies on ATS) love nothing more than to preach and scream about the big bad gubmint and blame the evil feds for everything from their own impotence to their wife shacking up with the mailman, but less than 5% of them are actually willing to do anything.

A Facebook like or a retweet does not mean that person is willing to give up their wife and kids, give up their job, travel across the country and be in the firing line for a cause most of them know is absolute bs.

It's a fantasy, 99% of people here on this forum and elsewhere who regularly fapps themselves silly over delusions about a new revolution is a fantasist wanting some excitement in their lives. You just need to check the postings of these people, they're on the Internet screaming at everyone else for doing nothing, while THEY DO NOTHING!

They want the revolution to satisfy their delusions and give them some excitement but they don't want to be the ones risking their lives for some bs cause, they'll scream at everyone else to do it, while they sit at home with a bucket of popcorn cheering on their team.

There is not going to be a second American revolution, not now, not over this. Maybe one day if someone like Trump gets into power and the people have an actual reason to fight an oppressor there'll be something happening, but this is nothing more than a terrorist cell being taken down.

a reply to: hellobruce
Have you actually watched any of the interviews with Levoy or are you relying on what somebody on msm or social media is saying about him?
I challenge you to watch his last interview and tell me he's an idiot.
www.youtube.com...
He speaks of reaching out and uniting the people. That scares those who serve the Empire. It serves to show the power of the Empire when they can drone you from above or shoot you down on the side of the road like a dog.

I just wish people would take the time to understand, and actually research, who these people are and what they really stand for and believe in.

The amount of mis-information and dis-information circulating about is staggering!

At one point there may have been a very credible case of government abuse here. This whole notion was completely lost the very second Bundy and guys like Funicum got involved. And the Hammonds, for their part, were wise to distance themselves from these troublemakers who were fighting for a cause which 99.9% of the people participating in these discussions do not even understand.

I have seen more sabre rattling and rhetoric from people who are simply uninformed around this topic than I've seen in a long while. If people knew the real story behind some of these guys they'd feel pretty foolish having posted some of the things they have.

If there was ever a call to arms for injustices of government acts it ended the very nano-second Bundy and (later) Funicum crossed the Oregon state line.

a reply to: Rocker2013
Well spoken for the True Loyalists side of the issue. All hail the Empire!

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: Gryphon66

Youre interpretation of what the militia is, is patently false. The national guard is not the militia.

Here in Texas for example we have the regular militia (Texas State Guard) and irregular militia both under command of the Governor.

As far as the video is concerned the key fact to discern will be when shots were first fired which can not be discerned from this footage without audio or enough clarity to see muzzle flashes / moving weapon actions...

See the Militia Act of 1903 and the US Constitution and numerous State Constitutions for the facts about the Militia.

However, even in what you said, you acknowledged that a true militia is under the command of the appropriate Commander-In-Chief (either a State Governor or the President of the United States).

The militia is not a gang of outlaws and hooligans that believe themselves to be above the laws of the land.

Period.

Loyalist to the US Constitution?

Abso-dang-lutely.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Now, don't put words in my mouth. Where was I arguing that the militia was not under the command of the Governor? You also need to understand that militia is often used as a synonym for armed militants, whether a correct use of the official term or not.

As far as this topic goes I don't think it's conclusive what happened, without being able to tell when the first shots were fired.