Authors of the Bible: The Greatest Plagiarism Ever Believed

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harte

Look, Plutarch is the source of the false penis story so you DO claim Plutarch is a "Christian revisionist." The fact that you were unaware of exactly what you were saying is of no consequence to the fact that you were saying it.

LOL There's that eagle flying around again!

No....Plutarch is source of story of Isis having a "temple" erected for every body part that she found. You (deliberately) omitted the qualifying paragraph, immediately proceeding your bogus evidence!

The traditional result of Osiris's dismemberment is that there are many so‑called tombs of Osiris in Egypt;89 for Isis held a funeral for each part when she had found it...............................

( in order that he might receive divine honours in a greater number of cities)

.........But Isis made a replica of the member to take its place, and consecrated the phallus, in honour of which the Egyptians even at the present day celebrate a festival.

For clarification:

The heart of Isis was filled with grief when she came to know what Set had done. She had made for herself a papyrus boat and sailed up and down the Delta waters, searching for the fragments of her husband's body, and at length she recovered them all, save the part which had been swallowed by the fish. She buried the fragments where they were found, and for each she made a tomb. In after days temples were erected over the tombs, and in these Osiris was worshipped by the people for long centuries.
www.sacred-texts.com...

Because there was no phallus, Isis made an effigy of a phallus, to leave for his remembrance as a funerary/temple.

In no way does Plutarch insinuate that Isis used an effigy of phallus, during the THOTH/ANUBIS ritual, in which she conceives Horus.

To say otherwise is willful intellectual dishonesty.

And what about her being a virgin?

The full Osiris myth has never been found in one writing. What we have of it is cobbled together from hundreds of different ancient sources.

IOW, there is no one version of the myth, and even the PT's tell BOTH versions, sex with the revived corpse producing Horus, and Horus having already been born before Osiris' death and collecting his father's body parts himself (though, as was pointed out in the link I gave, the latter has been interpreted as a metaphor for Horus gathering his inheritance from his father.)

In neither case is a virgin birth asserted, by the way. The sex act is simply not mentioned in one, while it is mentioned in the other.

Were the PT writers Christian revisionists?

Lastly, the PTs are a lousy source for mythology since they apply to the dead Pharaoh and we can only make inferences about the Osiris myth from them. They do not explicitly lay out the myth.

Harte

From the Book of the Dead (Great Hymn to osiris)

Thy sister protected thee, and she drove away thy foes, 14. and she warded off from thee evil hap, and uttered the words of power with all the skill of her mouth; her tongue was trained, and she committed no fault of utterance, and she made [her decree and [her words to have effect, Isis, the mighty one, the avenger of her brother. She sought thee without weariness, 15. she went round about through this land in sorrow, and she set not to the ground her foot until she had found thee. She made light with her feathers, she made air to come into being with her wings, and she uttered cries of lamentation at the bier of her brother. 16. She stirred up from his state of inactivity him whose heart was still (i.e., Osiris), she drew from him his seed, she made an heir, she suckled the babe in solitariness, and the place wherein she reared him is unknown, and his hand is mighty within the house 17. of Seb.

Read more: www.touregypt.net...

Harte

a reply to: Harte

And what about her being a virgin?

Oh, so now you're saying "So what?"

The full Osiris myth has never been found in one writing.

Coming from a place of ignorance isn't helping your argument.

We're not talking about the Osirus myth, we're talking about the conception of Horus. The ritual is clearly depicted a number of times on the pyramid walls, etc.

The myth tells of the resurrection, not erection, of Osiris, through a magical ritual conducted by THOTH and ANUBIS, in which Osiris' "essence" (seed) is conceived and carried by Isis, in the form a Kite, and birthed in the image of Horus. In this ritual, all of the members of Osiris are moved, as he was resurrected.

Unlike the Jesus story, the Osiris/Isis/Horus myth was never meant to be taken literally.

Sorry that you have a problem with penis and sperm, and can't see how "Mother Nature" [Isis) is perpetually pregnant, while being a perpetual virgin. A concept that flies over the head of most Christian apologists, while arguing how Mary is "The Holy Mother" and "The Perpetual Virgin".

What I don't understand is how you, apparently, have no problem with the "Holy Spirit" (A dove) hovering over and overcoming Mary, penetrating her so deeply as to plant "The Seed of David" inside her very real womb, but still insist that she was the "original" and first virgin to give birth to a god.

a reply to: Harte

she drew from him his seed, she made an heir,

Well, if Isis needed sperm, then so did Mary.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35

Sounds like rapie sex that involved sperm to me!

a reply to: windword

What I don't understand is how you, apparently, have no problem with the "Holy Spirit" (A dove) hovering over and overcoming Mary, penetrating her so deeply as to plant "The Seed of David" inside her very real womb, but still insist that she was the "original" and first virgin to give birth to a god.

Where do you get the information that a dove impregnated Mary? Never heard that one before. Also I have never read any of the many bibles who teach that Jesus was a God or that Mary gave a virgin birth. Perhaps Roman Catholic?

a reply to: Seede

ok, no offence intended here...

But you've recently said "you've never seen anyone on this forum claim Jesus is God"

Now you're saying you've never read a bible that says Jesus is God, or a heard of a virgin birth...

Ye lost me man... you read English right?

a reply to: Seede

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harte

And what about her being a virgin?

Oh, so now you're saying "So what?"

No, since I showed that there was indeed an Egyptian tradition for Isis impregnating herself with a golden replacement penis, I thought we could move on.

We have seen that Isis in fact was penetrated in one version of the myth, so it's not exactly the same claim of virginity attributed to Mary by the Christian tradition.

On the other hand, we know that Egypt had an astrotheology. And Isis was one of the first gods, quite powerful.

If she wanted to be a "virgin," she could be a "virgin." Horus was born to Isis every morning, and more intensely on the winter soltice, where Horus represented the birth of the Sun. Maybe she just grew her hymen back.

Again, not similar to the claims made about Mary.

I've seen this virginity of Isis compared to the (untouched) freshness of a new morning.

There are a great many better "virgin birth" parallels to Jesus than the Osiris myth. Even Plato was said to have been born from a virgin.
This Horus one doesn't stand up. It presupposes that the authors knew the Osiris myth and copied it. I find that highly unlikely with virgin birth myths to choose from right there in or near to their own culture. There was a time when it seemed like every hero and his brother were born of virgins.
The full Osiris myth has never been found in one writing.

Coming from a place of ignorance isn't helping your argument.

Since the myth has never been seen complete, and since the myth varied over time and over location, I'd say that's a problem we both have.

We're not talking about the Osirus myth, we're talking about the conception of Horus. The ritual is clearly depicted a number of times on the pyramid walls, etc.

The myth tells of the resurrection, not erection, of Osiris, through a magical ritual conducted by THOTH and ANUBIS, in which Osiris' "essence" (seed) is conceived and carried by Isis, in the form a Kite, and birthed in the image of Horus. In this ritual, all of the members of Osiris are moved, as he was resurrected.

Unlike the Jesus story, the Osiris/Isis/Horus myth was never meant to be taken literally.

There are several different Osiris myths (that's Horus' birth myth - the Osiris myth.) I've shown you this.
That you don't want to believe it is immaterial.
Regarding Jesus, there are religious scholars that argue convincingly that his virgin birth in the texts is a misunderstanding of Isaiah's prophecy which, they claim, originally did not stipulate virginity, but by the time of Matthew and Luke, the concept had crept into the prophecy through mistranslation of Hebrew into Greek in the Septuagint, the scripture both Luke and Matthew would have been familiar with.

Sorry that you have a problem with penis and sperm, and can't see how "Mother Nature" [Isis) is perpetually pregnant, while being a perpetual virgin. A concept that flies over the head of most Christian apologists, while arguing how Mary is "The Holy Mother" and "The Perpetual Virgin".

That I know enough about ancient myths to refute your one-dimensional glimpse of the past is not an indicator that I am a "Christian apologist."

What I don't understand is how you, apparently, have no problem with the "Holy Spirit" (A dove) hovering over and overcoming Mary, penetrating her so deeply as to plant "The Seed of David" inside her very real womb, but still insist that she was the "original" and first virgin to give birth to a god.

Only the truly ignorant would ascribe such claims to a person they (apparently) don't know. Where have I stated I believe any of that?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

No, since I showed that there was indeed an Egyptian tradition for Isis impregnating herself with a golden replacement penis, I thought we could move on.

You've shown no such thing!

We have seen that Isis in fact was penetrated in one version of the myth, so it's not exactly the same claim of virginity attributed to Mary by the Christian tradition.

Penetration!!!! LOL

NO. You've shown no such thing!

There are several different Osiris myths (that's Horus' birth myth - the Osiris myth.) I've shown you this.

You're delusional. There is no depiction of Isis using a dildo in order to conceive the resurrected essence of Osiris.

Regarding Jesus, there are religious scholars that argue convincingly that his virgin birth in the texts is a misunderstanding of Isaiah's prophecy

And yet, Christians defend her virginity to their last breath!

That I know enough about ancient myths to refute your one-dimensional glimpse of the past is not an indicator that I am a "Christian apologist."

Whether you know it or not, you're a conduit to their rhetoric.

That you don't want to believe it is immaterial.

It isn't a matter of not WANTING to believe, as Christians like to say. It's a matter of having studied this stuff in depth, while in secular college, years ago, and being able to recognize revisionist Christian tactics.

When it comes to dismissing Isis as being the original virginal goddess, symbolically raping her purity, ignorantly claiming she impregnated herself with a wooden dildo through masturbation, in order to protect the reputation of the Virgin Mary, as the only true virgin to give birth to a god, Christians are transparent in their hypocrisy.

Only the truly ignorant would ascribe such claims to a person they (apparently) don't know. Where have I stated I believe any of that?

If not, why are you adamantly defending it? Besides, you shouldn't take things so personally. My replies to you apply to anyone and everyone who may have been indoctrinated in the same BS rhetoric as you, obviously, have been.

a reply to: Harte

There are a great many better "virgin birth" parallels to Jesus than the Osiris myth. Even Plato was said to have been born from a virgin.
This Horus one doesn't stand up. It presupposes that the authors knew the Osiris myth and copied it.

Please elaborate, because I have no idea what you're talking about. You do know that Horus legends are so old that they pre-dates Isaiah's prophecies, right?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harte

There are a great many better "virgin birth" parallels to Jesus than the Osiris myth. Even Plato was said to have been born from a virgin.
This Horus one doesn't stand up. It presupposes that the authors knew the Osiris myth and copied it.

Please elaborate, because I have no idea what you're talking about. You do know that Horus legends are so old that they pre-dates Isaiah's prophecies, right?

Matthew and Luke were Egyptian scholars?

Isaiah prophesied the birth.
Matthew and Luke got their story embellishment from Isaiah.
Isaiah's prophecy in the Septuagint differs from his prophecy in the Hebrew Torah due to a translation error.
That's how the argument goes.

Your assertion that the Osiris myth was altered by Christians is bankrupt. They didn't bother to "alter" the virgin births of Hercules, Perseus, Mithras, etc...

Even Plato got the distinction of virgin birth by some. IOW, it wasn't uncommon for this claim to be attached to extraordinary people.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Your assertion that the Osiris myth was altered by Christians is bankrupt.

Your assertion that Isis wasn't "really" a virgin is as bankrupt as the gossip of a gaggle of jealous adolescent girls in a middle school playground.

a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: Seede
ok, no offence intended here... But you've recently said "you've never seen anyone on this forum claim Jesus is God" Now you're saying you've never read a bible that says Jesus is God, or a heard of a virgin birth... Ye lost me man... you read English right?

Yes I do read English - man.

You wrote that I contend that I have never seen anyone on this forum who has claimed that Jesus is God? Not true at all. Read your above accusation and tell me how sensible that sounds. On the contrary I have read on both religious forums, at one time, that some have said that Jesus was God. Show me the accusation otherwise please.

I have never read a Christian bible that contends that Jesus was God and I do not believe you or others can say differently in truth.

All Christian bibles, that I am aware of, will print -
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to
my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend
unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

As far as a virgin birth is concerned, it is my understanding that the Christian bibles teach that there was a virgin conception of Mary but does not confirm Mary had a virgin birth. I believe that matter lies with church doctrines and not the NT letters. In some denominations traditional doctrines override the scriptures and I believe this is one example of that. A virgin birth is not taught in the Synagogue of James before the Gospels were introduced and I also believe I had made it very clear that I do not accept Roman Catholicism as the true Christianity. My opinions of course--

a reply to: windword
Nice pictures but not scripture.
My opinion of course --

a reply to: Seede

I agree with you.

Many Christians have elaborated on various aspects of the gospels and weave fanciful embellishments and speculation into the Jesus myth.

For example, the story about the mid wife woman who was supposedly charged with checking for Mary's hymen, to see if she was really still a virgin, even though she was bursting with pregnancy. The tale goes on to say that the mid wife's hand was burned when she did the check.

That story is not found anywhere in the Bible, yet some Christians tout it out to defend Mary's virginity, like its fact!

a reply to: Seede

You wrote that I contend that I have never seen anyone on this forum who has claimed that Jesus is God? Not true at all. Read your above accusation and tell me how sensible that sounds. On the contrary I have read on both religious forums, at one time, that some have said that Jesus was God. Show me the accusation otherwise please.

I believe you are the only member named Seede... top of your own post, from your own words
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have never read a Christian bible that contends that Jesus was God and I do not believe you or others can say differently in truth.

I personally would not make that claim... Christians have a way of reading into what Jesus said... so I assumed you also believed what most Christians do... that being "he said I AM" so he must be God... Or even, The word became flesh... Jesus is the word so he must be God in the flesh...

All Christian bibles, that I am aware of, will print -
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to
my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend
unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Completely agree with that....

As far as a virgin birth is concerned, it is my understanding that the Christian bibles teach that there was a virgin conception of Mary but does not confirm Mary had a virgin birth. I believe that matter lies with church doctrines and not the NT letters. In some denominations traditional doctrines override the scriptures and I believe this is one example of that. A virgin birth is not taught in the Synagogue of James before the Gospels were introduced and I also believe I had made it very clear that I do not accept Roman Catholicism as the true Christianity. My opinions of course--

Well yes... it is in their creeds...

Then theres this in Matthew 1

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harte

Your assertion that the Osiris myth was altered by Christians is bankrupt.

Your assertion that Isis wasn't "really" a virgin is as bankrupt as the gossip of a gaggle of jealous adolescent girls in a middle school playground.

And, to you, Mary is a god.

Harte

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seede

I agree with you.

Many Christians have elaborated on various aspects of the gospels and weave fanciful embellishments and speculation into the Jesus myth.

For example, the story about the mid wife woman who was supposedly charged with checking for Mary's hymen, to see if she was really still a virgin, even though she was bursting with pregnancy. The tale goes on to say that the mid wife's hand was burned when she did the check.

That story is not found anywhere in the Bible, yet some Christians tout it out to defend Mary's virginity, like its fact!

That's how myths get started.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

And, to you, Mary is a god.

In my view, The Virgin Mary is an allegorical figure, not a real historic person, who was modeled from Isis mythology.

That's how myths get started.

Not all myths are based on lies, but the ones that are are easily spotted.

However:

There is one thing that I have no need to mention to you: if they hold such opinions and relate such tales about the nature of the blessed and imperishable (in accordance with which our concept of the divine must be framed) and if such deeds and occurrences actually took place, then

Much there is to spit and cleanse the mouth
Plutarch

a reply to: windword

Yea they both had a son I totally agree