Authors of the Bible: The Greatest Plagiarism Ever Believed

originally posted by: FaceTheReality
Ghost147,

I'm new and that was really an interesting post.

I've heard stories about Jesus travelling to Egypt, Asia, etc before too.

It's so refreshing to see someone with a really open mind

Oh and by the way, just to let you know that your post is the one that made me register here.

I'm glad I could spread new information your way

I don't really expect fundamentalist religious folk to be fazed by the information, and it most certainly isn't newly discovered. The intention of such threads and posts, at least from me, are definitely focusing on individuals like yourself, whom may simply not have been aware of the information prior, and for religious members who don't really take the beliefs they follow at full force.

It's always nice to see the aim meet it's goal

a reply to: Ghost147

I've come across other forums claiming themselves "open" to alternate ideas - be it history, politics, religions etc; and yet when anyone tries to debate anything which is against the "mainstream view", you'll see fanatics start ganging on them using any kind of excuses to bash/discredit their views.

"Freedom of speech" indeed!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ghostrager

A lot of the information out there that discusses similarities between Jesus and others (Mithra, Horus, etc) are fabricated lies.

Isis was the mother of Horus, and she was, traditionally, indeed a virgin, regardless of Christian interpolation.

Depends on which Osiris myth you decide to go by. In this case, a particular version has to be chosen, or Isis is no virgin.

When Set murdered Osiris, he cut him into pieces and spread his body parts to the four corners of the land. Isis gathered them back up and magically put them back together, but she couldn't find his penis. She created a false penis and attached that.
She had sex with Osiris and became pregnant with Horus.

I don't know, guys. Doesn't sound a lot like Jebus to me.

Harte

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: butcherguy
Do you realize the odds against humans leaving this solar system before we die as a race?
The huge hurdle of interstellar travel is the main reason that most rational people do not believe that Earth has ever been visited by extraterrestrials.

Oh, so your OPINION counts as what's "rational". Well that's a good one. >_<

Well we've got 5 billion years left but you seem to have no faith in humanity and try to bring down the hopes of people because of your negative beliefs.

Do you realize how like a Christian this admonishment of having "no faith" sounds?

We are a species. The fate of ALL species is extinction.

It doesn't matter if we leave the planet or not. In fact, such a large geographical separation would cause our extinction to hasten, according to current evolutionary theory.

Harte

originally posted by: windword

Look, there is no Egyptian theology that has Isis using a dildo to impregnate herself.

Yopu apparently have decided to state assertions concerning an area you are unfamiliar with.

The myth of Osiris, Isis and Horus goes back to the earliest periods of Ancient Egypt. That civilization existed in one form or another for at least two thousand years.

Practically every traditional myth they had underwent change over that period (obviously, that's a very long time.) I assure you that there certainly IS a myth where Isis creates a false penis for Osiris and becomes pregnant with Horus through a sexual act with Osiris' resurrected body before he goes off to become lord of the Underworld.

That you simply refuse to believe this established fact places you in the same category as the Christian literalists you endeavor to refute in this thread.


Harte

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Ghost147

The chart is very interesting.

Did you note that it lists quantum theory as a modern myth?

Harte

The majority of the OP's premise is based on the work of Gerald Massey, who is not considered trustworthy or relevant in the realms of Egyptology's history writers. The ideology can also be found in the films "Religulous" and "Zeitgeist", both of which have multiple sections that are easily refuted.

a reply to: Harte

This is the Isis of Sais, famous for the inscription concerning her which appeared on the front of her temple in that city: "I, Isis, am all that has been, that is or shall be; no mortal Man hath ever me unveiled."

This Egyptian deity under many names appears as the principle of natural fecundity among nearly all the religions of the ancient world. She was known as the goddess with ten thousand appellations and was metamorphosed by Christianity into the Virgin Mary, for Isis, although she gave birth to all living things--chief among them the Sun--still remained a virgin, according to the legendary accounts.

Isis, the Virgin of the World

POSTED BY HARTE

I assure you that there certainly IS a myth where Isis creates a false penis for Osiris and becomes pregnant with Horus through a sexual act with Osiris' resurrected body before he goes off to become lord of the Underworld.

Yes, there is. It was created much later by Christian revisionists who wanted to discredit "The Great Virgin" by raping her with a dildo!

There are several version of the Osiris/Isis/Horus myth propagated to appease an audience.

There is no ancient "PYRAMID" text that has ISIS getting pregnant, during the THOTH/ANUBIS ritual with a fake penis/doldo! Isis turned into a bird to get pregnant. Do you think a magical bird need a dildo?

Isis is venerated as The Perpetual Virgin and claims herself to be "The Great Virgin". She was worshiped as such for 1000s of years. It wasn't until the Christians tried to copy the myth and superimpose it onto their own version of the Jewish Messiah that her purity was insulted and her character raped.

Now, It is written that Isis had a temple built for every member of the body of Osiris that she found, and unable to find his phallus, Isis had an OBELISK fashioned to represent the missing body part.

The traditional result of Osiris's dismemberment is that there are many so‑called tombs of Osiris in Egypt;89 for Isis held a funeral for each part when she had found it. Others deny this and assert that she caused effigies of him to be made and these she distributed among the several cities, pretending that she was giving them his body, in order that he might receive divine honours in a greater number of cities, Band also that, if Typhon should succeed in overpowering Horus, he might despair of ever finding p47the true tomb when so many were pointed out to him, all of them called the tomb of Osiris.90

Of the parts of Osiris's body the only one which Isis did not find was the male member,91 for the reason that this had been at once tossed into the river, and the lepidotus, the sea-bream, and the pike had fed upon it;92 and it is from these very fishes the Egyptians are most scrupulous in abstaining. But Isis made a replica of the member to take its place, and consecrated the phallus,93 in honour of which the Egyptians even at the present day celebrate a festival.
Plutarch 45-120 AD

penelope.uchicago.edu...*/A.html

But now let us take up again the proper subject of our discussion.

53 Isis is, in fact, the female principle of Nature, and is receptive of every form of generation, in accord with which she is called by Plato the gentle nurse and the all-receptive, and by most people has been called by countless names, since, because of the force of Reason, she turns herself to this thing or that and is receptive of all manner of shapes and forms. She has an innate love for the first and most dominant of all things, which is identical with the good, and this she yearns for and pursues; Fbut the portion which comes from evil she tries to avoid and to reject, for she serves p131them both as a place and means of growth, but inclines always towards the better and offers to it opportunity to create from her and to impregnate her with effluxes and likenesses in which she rejoices and is glad that she is made pregnant and teeming with these creations. For creation is the image of being in matter, and the thing created is a picture of reality.
Plutarch 45-120 AD
penelope.uchicago.edu...*/D.html

Now, do you really think that "Mother Nature" (Isis) needed a wooden dildo to become a pregnant goddess teeming with life?

Personally, I don't believe Osiris or Isis existed, so there's no need to stipulate what Isis could or could not do.
That is, are you asserting "mother nature" could NOT fashion a false penis from which to impregnate herself?

Regarding the PT, they tell the story both ways:

In fact, the Pyramid Texts present us with two possible scenarios for the death of Osiris.

Firstly, Osiris is brought down by Seth in Nedit. The two sisters discover the body there. They resuscitate him. Then Isis conceives hiss son Horus. Seth, on finding the corpse, cuts it in pieces which he throws into the Nile. Horus leaves to search for them, collects them. Entrusted to Nut they are buried inside the sarcophagus. The dismembered body is reconstituted, recomposed like that of an embryo, before being put back into the world (of the beyond). The Pyramid Texts, in addition, develop the nursing and feeding of the newborn.
Secondly, Osiris is brought down by Seth and cut in pieces. Isis and Nephthys recover them in Nedit. The body is reconstituted, buried, resuscitated. The conception of Horus takes place at that moment.
A variant of the second scenarios: Osiris is put to death two times (brought down, then cut up), the corpse having been discovered a first time by Isis and Nephthys, then reconstituted and buried before being resuscitated.
The second scenario and its variant come up against the tradition making of Horus, the one who collects the pieces of his father's corpse (we also find him in the same way in the sides of Isis and Nephthys in the Jumilhac Papyrus, at the bottom, V [13]). However, one could consider this quest as a sort of abridgement, a metaphor: Horus would not literally collect the parts of his father's body but his inheritance.

Source
All that means is that the Osiris myth predates the Pyramid Texts (D5,6 O.K.,) as I implied earlier.

Lastly, thanks for the chuckle. You're claiming Plutarch is a "Christian revisionist."

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
It doesn't matter if we leave the planet or not. In fact, such a large geographical separation would cause our extinction to hasten, according to current evolutionary theory.

Natural selection (which is what you're referring to) actually doesn't work on a species wide level, but rather, a population level. An 'extinction' through Natural selection would only effect the population that had left the planet. Those who stayed would still be in the same environment, so we wouldn't simply die off.

originally posted by: Harte
I don't know, guys. Doesn't sound a lot like Jebus to me.

As you stated, there are different myths surrounding Osiris. In the version you've chosen to allude to, no it does not sound like the Jesus story, however, that does not discount the one he was referring to

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Ghost147

The chart is very interesting.

Did you note that it lists quantum theory as a modern myth?

Notice also that the "Scientific Method" is in that graph? The Scientific Method isn't a claim, it's a form of reasoning used to evaluate evidence. The Scientific Method and Quantum Mechanics are there for a time and origin reference, not as a suggestion that they are both mythological.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
It doesn't matter if we leave the planet or not. In fact, such a large geographical separation would cause our extinction to hasten, according to current evolutionary theory.

Natural selection (which is what you're referring to) actually doesn't work on a species wide level, but rather, a population level. An 'extinction' through Natural selection would only effect the population that had left the planet. Those who stayed would still be in the same environment, so we wouldn't simply die off.

I assert that we will die off. Not that we won't be replaced by some other species of Homo.

Extinction has always been the fate of every species.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
I don't know, guys. Doesn't sound a lot like Jebus to me.

As you stated, there are different myths surrounding Osiris. In the version you've chosen to allude to, no it does not sound like the Jesus story, however, that does not discount the one he was referring to

In the oldest versions, there's always a penis of some sort or other involved.

Just because people want to read "essence" as something other than sperm, that does not refute the use of Osiris' penis.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Ghost147

The chart is very interesting.

Did you note that it lists quantum theory as a modern myth?

Notice also that the "Scientific Method" is in that graph? The Scientific Method isn't a claim, it's a form of reasoning used to evaluate evidence. The Scientific Method and Quantum Mechanics are there for a time and origin reference, not as a suggestion that they are both mythological.

I figured that, but note the title of the graphic.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Nothing you posted mentions or confirms a wooden phallus impregnating the goddess.

Personally, I don't believe Osiris or Isis existed, so there's no need to stipulate what Isis could or could not do.

Duh! Personally, I don't believe the biblical story of the virgin birth of Jesus, any of the magical goings on or in the death and resurrection story of Jesus. Furthermore, I doubt that one Jesus of Nazareth ever even existed. let alone Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary!

Lastly, thanks for the chuckle. You're claiming Plutarch is a "Christian revisionist."

Did an eagle just fly in the room, because something just went waaaay over your head!

I never insinuated any such thing. I used exerpts from Plutarch's tome, "Thrice Great Hermes", on the Osiris/Isis/Horus mystery to explain to you the "goddess" concept, something that you have clearly missed. Not surprising, however, that another Christian completely misses subtlety and the essence of the myth, still scratching your head trying to figure out anyone could take the Isis/Osiris/Horus myth/trinity literally!

By the way, Plutarch NEVER writes about a Isis impregnating herself with a fashioned penis/dildo!

I scratch my head, trying understand how anyone could take the Jesus Christ myth literally, or seriously!

originally posted by: Harte
I assert that we will die off.

Yes, and that would be Natural Selection.

Regardless, you still stated that it would hasten the extinction of our species. I'm just pointing out that Evolution does not function on a species-based-level, but a population-based-level.

originally posted by: Harte
Extinction has always been the fate of every species.

True. However, the details you made to accompany that fact were inaccurate.

originally posted by: Harte
Just because people want to read "essence" as something other than sperm, that does not refute the use of Osiris' penis.

Sure, why not.

Now, about the other similarities....?

originally posted by: Harte
I figured that, but note the title of the graphic.

It doesn't matter the title when their intention had nothing to do with claiming the scientific method or quantum mechanics were myth. It was there as a reference, nothing more. Why are you still arguing this? You either agree by saying "i figured that" or you don't agree.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
I assert that we will die off.

Yes, and that would be Natural Selection.

Regardless, you still stated that it would hasten the extinction of our species. I'm just pointing out that Evolution does not function on a species-based-level, but a population-based-level.

Agreed. Yet is the species that suffers the extinction.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
Extinction has always been the fate of every species.

True. However, the details you made to accompany that fact were inaccurate.

Hardly. All I said is that we will go extinct in any case.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
Just because people want to read "essence" as something other than sperm, that does not refute the use of Osiris' penis.

Sure, why not.

Now, about the other similarities....?

What other similarities? Are you still talking about Horus?

All I brought up is that the "Virgin birth" is not an original part of the story, regardless of whether Osiris lost his penis or not.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
I figured that, but note the title of the graphic.

It doesn't matter the title when their intention had nothing to do with claiming the scientific method or quantum mechanics were myth. It was there as a reference, nothing more. Why are you still arguing this? You either agree by saying "i figured that" or you don't agree.

I agree that it was a reference. But in fact that info requires me to decide for myself what the intention was, usually that's a shaky piece of ground to stand on.

Looking at the graphic alone, there's no real way to tell if the artist believes QM is a myth or not.

Harte

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harte

Nothing you posted mentions or confirms a wooden phallus impregnating the goddess.

Personally, I don't believe Osiris or Isis existed, so there's no need to stipulate what Isis could or could not do.

Duh! Personally, I don't believe the biblical story of the virgin birth of Jesus, any of the magical goings on or in the death and resurrection story of Jesus. Furthermore, I doubt that one Jesus of Nazareth ever even existed. let alone Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary!

Lastly, thanks for the chuckle. You're claiming Plutarch is a "Christian revisionist."

Did an eagle just fly in the room, because something just went waaaay over your head!

I never insinuated any such thing. I used exerpts from Plutarch's tome, "Thrice Great Hermes", on the Osiris/Isis/Horus mystery to explain to you the "goddess" concept, something that you have clearly missed. Not surprising, however, that another Christian completely misses subtlety and the essence of the myth, still scratching your head trying to figure out anyone could take the Isis/Osiris/Horus myth/trinity literally!

So I am characterized as a "Christian" because I bring actual information to a thread sorely lacking same?

Look, Plutarch is the source of the false penis story so you DO claim Plutarch is a "Christian revisionist." The fact that you were unaware of exactly what you were saying is of no consequence to the fact that you were saying it.

Of the parts of Osiris's body the only one which Isis did not find was the male member,91 for the reason that this had been at once tossed into the river, and the lepidotus, the sea-bream, and the pike had fed upon it;92 and it is from these very fishes the Egyptians are most scrupulous in abstaining. But Isis made a replica of the member to take its place, and consecrated the phallus,93 in honour of which the Egyptians even at the present day celebrate a festival.

Plutarch Moralia Volume 5, Isis and Osiris

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
Agreed. Yet is the species that suffers the extinction.

Yes, an extinction or an divergence to another species through evolution.

originally posted by: Harte
Hardly. All I said is that we will go extinct in any case.

You stated "if a population of humans moves to another planet, it will quicken our extinction", which is not true, and the only thing I was pointing out wasn't true.

originally posted by: Harte
What other similarities? Are you still talking about Horus?

All I brought up is that the "Virgin birth" is not an original part of the story, regardless of whether Osiris lost his penis or not.

Ah ok, I thought you were implying the entirety of the mythology didn't relate to Jesus' story. My mistake.

originally posted by: Harte
I agree that it was a reference. But in fact that info requires me to decide for myself what the intention was, usually that's a shaky piece of ground to stand on.

Looking at the graphic alone, there's no real way to tell if the artist believes QM is a myth or not.

It's not an artistic depiction, it's a collaboration of studies. Also, I believe there is a link in the graph to the source of the article in which it was posted. No assumptions required

The person who created the graph made a tweet regarding it, it can be found here.
Link

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
Hardly. All I said is that we will go extinct in any case.

You stated "if a population of humans moves to another planet, it will quicken our extinction", which is not true, and the only thing I was pointing out wasn't true.

It may or may not be true on Earth. It would certainly be true for the frontier in space.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
What other similarities? Are you still talking about Horus?

All I brought up is that the "Virgin birth" is not an original part of the story, regardless of whether Osiris lost his penis or not.

Ah ok, I thought you were implying the entirety of the mythology didn't relate to Jesus' story. My mistake.

I think it's a stretch. The HRE co-opted a lot of pagan myths for sure, and it could be that these myths as we have them have been corrupted by Christianity, as windword was claiming about the Osiris myth, and not the other way around. I'm not actually interested enough to delve deeply into the subject to a level where I could find these things out for certain (if that's even possible.)

However, I will say that the concept of a virgin birth was certainly around well before the common era and obviously would denote something supernatural going on. Therefore when Jesus' legend was embellished by those telling the story, I wouldn't be surprised that that would be one of the embellishments.

I have my doubts about plagiarizing Jesus' story from other sources though. People weren't that well read back then, in my opinion.

On the other hand, as was pointed out, much of the Jewish tradition was lifted from Babylonia. That's not surprising either, since the Canaanite religion, from which Judaism arises, stems from the Babylonian one, and Jewish Rabbi's were put to work in the libraries of Babylon during the Babylonian Captivity.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Harte
I agree that it was a reference. But in fact that info requires me to decide for myself what the intention was, usually that's a shaky piece of ground to stand on.

Looking at the graphic alone, there's no real way to tell if the artist believes QM is a myth or not.

It's not an artistic depiction, it's a collaboration of studies. Also, I believe there is a link in the graph to the source of the article in which it was posted. No assumptions required

The person who created the graph made a tweet regarding it, it can be found here.
Link

Okay. But note that my response was to a poster commenting about the graphic, not about the author's words, which I didn't bother to read.

Still, I understood it as a reference, but thought it was a rather strange thing anyway. Don't you?

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
It may or may not be true on Earth. It would certainly be true for the frontier in space.

Yes, Natural selection would be be hard-hitting on the population that chose to go to space

originally posted by: Harte
Okay. But note that my response was to a poster commenting about the graphic, not about the author's words, which I didn't bother to read.

I see

originally posted by: Harte
Still, I understood it as a reference, but thought it was a rather strange thing anyway. Don't you?

No, not particularly strange.

a reply to: Harte

Look, Plutarch is the source of the false penis story so you DO claim Plutarch is a "Christian revisionist." The fact that you were unaware of exactly what you were saying is of no consequence to the fact that you were saying it.

LOL There's that eagle flying around again!

No....Plutarch is source of story of Isis having a "temple" erected for every body part that she found. You (deliberately) omitted the qualifying paragraph, immediately proceeding your bogus evidence!

The traditional result of Osiris's dismemberment is that there are many so‑called tombs of Osiris in Egypt;89 for Isis held a funeral for each part when she had found it...............................

( in order that he might receive divine honours in a greater number of cities)

.........But Isis made a replica of the member to take its place, and consecrated the phallus, in honour of which the Egyptians even at the present day celebrate a festival.

For clarification:

The heart of Isis was filled with grief when she came to know what Set had done. She had made for herself a papyrus boat and sailed up and down the Delta waters, searching for the fragments of her husband's body, and at length she recovered them all, save the part which had been swallowed by the fish. She buried the fragments where they were found, and for each she made a tomb. In after days temples were erected over the tombs, and in these Osiris was worshipped by the people for long centuries.
www.sacred-texts.com...

Because there was no phallus, Isis made an effigy of a phallus, to leave for his remembrance as a funerary/temple.

In no way does Plutarch insinuate that Isis used an effigy of phallus, during the THOTH/ANUBIS ritual, in which she conceives Horus.

To say otherwise is willful intellectual dishonesty.

a reply to: Harte

All I brought up is that the "Virgin birth" is not an original part of the story, regardless of whether Osiris lost his penis or not.

How could it NOT be a "virgin birth" when Isis is venerated as the "Perpetual Virgin of the World" throughout Egyptian pyramid walls, steles, coffins, etc.