North Korean Nuclear Test Indicitive of EMP Weapons Test?

Just watched an interesting, if not frightening, interview with Peter Vincent Pry, former CIA Analyst, who seems to think that the recent North Korean Nuclear test may have actually been testing a 'Super EMP' weapon and could easily be deployed from a revamped version of Russia's old Fractional Orbital Bombardment System. Scary stuff...

a reply to: twitchy

That doesn't really add up to me.

The alleged fusion device test registered as a 5 something quake. Which would produce a not negligible amount of damage if deployed over a populated area.

The whole point of EMP devices are to disable electrical systems in a given area without causing large amounts of destruction. Generally accepted to assist with facilitating an invasion or just to throw the targets economy or civil structure into disarray.

So I would expect an EMP device to be much less explodey.

Neutron bomb? It would leave buildings standing but wipe out people.

No just a very small nuke

a reply to: watchitburn

The whole point of EMP devices are to disable electrical systems in a given area without causing large amounts of destruction. Generally accepted to assist with facilitating an invasion or just to throw the targets economy or civil structure into disarray.

Exactly.

The combination of tremor with the pre-reported digging in the area of their testing all but pegs this as an underground detonation. Whether it was really powerful enough to create such a widely felt quake or whether it simply ticked off Mother Earth in the region... is still, for now anyway, just a guess.

a reply to: redoubt

Whether it was really powerful enough to create such a widely felt quake or whether it simply ticked off Mother Earth in the region.

Although they use the same equipment to detect them, a nuclear detonation and an earthquake give off different signatures. They can tell the difference.

seismo.berkeley.edu...

a reply to: DAVID64

Although they use the same equipment to detect them, a nuclear detonation and an earthquake give off different signatures. They can tell the difference.

Indeed but... what if the nuke stirred a quake?

That's what I was suggesting as one alternative. Not that the detonation was the quake, but that the reaction to it was the quake.

Of course, I'm no expert in this arena. It was just a guess.
Nothing more

The design of 'non-standard' nukes, i.e. ones with special sauce to enhance the EMP effects of small primaries, is a VERY tightly held secret and very unintuitive, sort of like nuclear shaped charges for boring tunnels.

NK can't get much more than a fizzle out of the material they've got. They certainly did not detonate a thermonuke. Also, a neutron bomb requires you to have a fairly complex thermonuclear bomb design ready to go, and to understand what happens (physics wise) when you radically change the tamper, pusher and casing.

Again, they're nowhere near that, either.

What they're doing is saber rattling with the old output of Yongbyon, which is an awful mess, because they tried to do it too fast on the cheap. So they're getting fizzles.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: twitchy

That doesn't really add up to me.

The alleged fusion device test registered as a 5 something quake. Which would produce a not negligible amount of damage if deployed over a populated area.

All of which is common lies, told by the US to "make little" of N-Korea's ability to defend itself, and promote further aggressive action in the region.

In 1972, the US deployed a 5 megaton H-Bomb underground, and it produced a 6.8 earthquake. In 1968, the US performed a test, if it could create earthquakes with nukes, and produced some but not many, greater than 3.5 on the richter. It was possible, but not in the "popular ideology" that is today.

In 1998, India tested a 43 Kt device, that produced a 5.1 on the richter.

The entire scenario of judging N-Korea's device as "insignificant" borders on criminal insanity. This nation, has been starved by the US for decades ... their development of Nuclear weapons, is completely logical, in the shadow of the facts, that the US used biological weapons in Korea during the Korean war. And their continuous aggression in the region.

Another common lies, told by MSM, is that an atomb bomb has to be something HUGE ... both the US and the Soviet union produced weapons that were no more then tens of tons, that were nuclear weapons. These are "tactical" weapons, instead of "stragetic" weapons, intended to be used on the battlefield. In reality, these weapons can be anything from tens of tons, to the 100 megaton Tsar Bomba, that the Russians have.

Another misconception, and lies in the US mass media ... is the earth quake factor. The US consistently accused the Soviet Union of breaking the deal of 4.4 megaton limit in nuclear testing. But which was later discovered to be, because the testing sites differ in composition. This is a factor, that can amplify the earthquake factor.

So, the reality is ... this can all fall on both sides of equation ... it can be less, and even a greater threat.

Another "stupidity" factor that is often displayed, is that a test would be created with some HUGE atomb bomb that would create a devestating earthquake ... and only that is a proof of concept.

Any sane man, that intends to test this ... would calculate the "earthquake" into the test ... there is no need to test a huge bomb ... you only need to test the material composition, within safety parameters. The earth quake factor, is merely a "whose got the biggest penis" competition.

Fact of the matter is, N.Korea is fully logical in it's acquisition of the weapon ... as it's opposing nation, the US, is guilty of such crimes in the region, that the Germans fade in the dust in comparison. How many millions, died in Vietnam ... does the US show remorse? no .. even the middle east, is facing a dire disaster today and in the future, as a result of us warfare in the region.

a reply to: twitchy

I would think if any maniac (Kim being one) would launch a nuclear strike against any country, the first thing they would do is launch an EMP device to disable launching capabilities of the other country. It's one of the reasons why the United States has nuclear missiles aboard it's submarines. It's also the reason why we have a NATO alliance. Anyone who would actually think they could launch a nuclear attack against the U.S. or a NATO ally without being wiped off the face of the earth is living in a dream land.

I think the world is getting tired of Kim's childish and reckless behavior and it may eventually become the nail in the coffin for Kim. In my opinion, the sooner the better.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: twitchy
I would think if any maniac (Kim being one) would launch a nuclear strike against any country, the first thing they would do is launch an EMP device to disable launching capabilities of the other country.

Maniac?

There is no "maniac" in the equation ... the "maniac" is the US vaging a world war, and murdering millions of people around the world, because 8 men with box cutters, hijacked an aeroplane.

The US is constantly flying their B-52's over N.Korea ... armed with nuclear bombs. People in North Korea starve, because of Americans being criminally insane. 500 thousand children, died in Iraq ... because the US's criminal insanity.

The entire western world, is collapsing ... because of the US's criminal insanity.

The United States, is the only nation on earth ... that is "maniac" enough to use atomic weapons in warfare. Kosovo is poisoned in radio active dust, Iraq is as well ... people are dying, children born deformed ... and in light of that, N.Korea is fully justified, in doing anything in it's power to deter an invasion on it's soil.

The characteristic of a nuclear explosion is an EMP no matter what....it's part of the 'fun'.

Ah! Now I get it, (after another 40mins of video indoctrination), this is more lefty V righty bullshiite. Geeez, the lengths some people go to.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

All of which is common lies, told by the US to "make little" of N-Korea's ability to defend itself, and promote further aggressive action in the region.

In 1972, the US deployed a 5 megaton H-Bomb underground, and it produced a 6.8 earthquake. In 1968, the US performed a test, if it could create earthquakes with nukes, and produced some but not many, greater than 3.5 on the richter. It was possible, but not in the "popular ideology" that is today.

In 1998, India tested a 43 Kt device, that produced a 5.1 on the richter.

The Richter scale is logarithmic. 6.8 is a LOT bigger than a 5.1. What you get for disturbance also depends on depth and geologic features. Also, the first two Pokhran shots yielded way less than their design because they were also failures, similar to but not as bad as the NK ones.

Another common lies, told by MSM, is that an atomb bomb has to be something HUGE ... both the US and the Soviet union produced weapons that were no more then tens of tons, that were nuclear weapons. These are "tactical" weapons, instead of "stragetic" weapons, intended to be used on the battlefield. In reality, these weapons can be anything from tens of tons, to the 100 megaton Tsar Bomba, that the Russians have.

Except you also get small from failures. Small by design is tough. You don't start there.

Another "stupidity" factor that is often displayed, is that a test would be created with some HUGE atomb bomb that would create a devestating earthquake ... and only that is a proof of concept.

Going for small with plutonium requires a lot of technical know-how, which is why no-one does it with the first ones.

a reply to: twitchy

I doubt it.Why test an EMP weapon underground? how would you measure it's effectiveness?

I'd like to know the depth of this quake-that would be most telling.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: twitchy

I doubt it.Why test an EMP weapon underground? how would you measure it's effectiveness?

Oh, that's easy enough, the nuke itself doesn't produce an EMP, it's the gamma and x-ray emissions, so all you'd need to do would be to instrument that, and you do anyway so you can do a postmortem on how the shot went.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

The US is constantly flying their B-52's over N.Korea ... armed with nuclear bombs.

The US has never flown a single B-52, nuclear armed or otherwise over North Korea. I get you have a pathological hatred of anything US, but at least TRY to get your facts right.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: twitchy
I would think if any maniac (Kim being one) would launch a nuclear strike against any country, the first thing they would do is launch an EMP device to disable launching capabilities of the other country.

Maniac?

There is no "maniac" in the equation ... the "maniac" is the US vaging a world war, and murdering millions of people around the world, because 8 men with box cutters, hijacked an aeroplane.

The US is constantly flying their B-52's over N.Korea ... armed with nuclear bombs. People in North Korea starve, because of Americans being criminally insane. 500 thousand children, died in Iraq ... because the US's criminal insanity.

The entire western world, is collapsing ... because of the US's criminal insanity.

The United States, is the only nation on earth ... that is "maniac" enough to use atomic weapons in warfare. Kosovo is poisoned in radio active dust, Iraq is as well ... people are dying, children born deformed ... and in light of that, N.Korea is fully justified, in doing anything in it's power to deter an invasion on it's soil.

So in other words ..You hate the US so blurghgghghhgh Internet Rage and blame everything on the US..

Got it.

originally posted by: opethPA

So in other words ..You hate the US so blurghgghghhgh Internet Rage and blame everything on the US..

Got it.

No, not at all ...

The US is doing what the US things is best for the US ... there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But, it doesn't mean we all have to be brainwashed morons and believe their fart to be perfume by L'Oreal, now does it.

Think about it ... where would US-China relations be, if it wasn't for Nixon and his revolutionary idea to "open" up trade with China, instead of closing in on it, as has been done with N.Korea?

The people who are responsible for foreign policy in the US, to ensure sanctions and using the military to force entire nations to comply with US demands ... have no other agenda, but war.

Imagine yourself in an Alley, and a guy comes at you with a gun and says "stick'em up". This is what the US does, internationally ... if the US was sincere, in it's policies ... it would do like Nixon did, it would "nudge" nations and people, and make it in their own interest to do so.

a reply to: bjarneorn

So instead of being brainwashed you prefer to spout the latest anti US propaganda, regardless of if it's even remotely true.