Thought about intelligent life on other planets

a reply to: Jonjonj

Yes they do. They have some basic tool using skills, what is missing for them to progress? Is it intellect? Or something else.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Guidance...by the mind!

All joking aside, I don't think they have the drive to create, everything they need is all around them.

You know the saying, necessity is the mother of invention.

a reply to: Jonjonj

There is truth to that. So now we need intellect, a body capable of using the correct tools, and an environment that pushes them to invent.

Does it require a social species? Imagine if humans were not social and new technology was never spread, how would we ever advance?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I personally believe that any technologically minded species by its very nature needs to be social, as the need to interchange ideas and solve problems go hand in hand. Without communication I can not see how a species would advance at all.

How do they get from being in need to realising they need to solve a problem and then to solving the problem? That is THE question, isn't it?

a reply to: Jonjonj

Imagine if every time a human invented fire they refused to share that idea and it was lost. How many fewer people would there be if we were territorial and there was only 1 person in a wide range of space, making it that much less likely for brilliant minds to be born.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I wonder about that [civilization as a function] of evolution
myself Occam. BTW great thread, thank you.
Speaking only for myself, the amount of comfort level one
would have to experiemce as a result of intelligent work would
neccessitate some degree of teamwork... but that depends on
what you really desire for a comfort level.
All I know for now is if they have to leave their planet, they did
something to make their planet too hard to live on. That sounds
strangely familiar-- and make some of us look pretty dumb.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It could never work. In order to be considered intelligent you have to have the capacity to reason and make choices for your own benefit. If you don't do that you won't survive. Your intellect would overpower your natural inclination to territoriality, wouldn't it?

a reply to: Jonjonj

Why would it? Intellect doesn't change your desires, it allows you to fulfill them. So your desire to be solitary would still be there, and your intellect would work to make you the master of your domain.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That is the problem for me. The onset of intellect beyond simple survival would only come about by sharing ideas. Unless one were a supreme being with ultimate problem solving skills on an individual level then how could one advance? Where would the inspiration come from to try something another way?

As for intellect not changing desires, I know quite a few vegetarians who would argue that point.

a reply to: derfreebie

Maybe they leave for curiosity, they could be a race of cat people looking for new boxes to explore.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That is the problem for me. The onset of intellect beyond simple survival would only come about by sharing ideas. Unless one were a supreme being with ultimate problem solving skills on an individual level then how could one advance? Where would the inspiration come from to try something another way?

As for intellect not changing desires, I know quite a few vegetarians who would argue that point.

The desire is food, their intellect only changes how they fulfill that desire.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I think you are mistaking desire for need. I need food, but I desire a steak, no?

a reply to: Jonjonj

No, the two go hand in hand, but are not the same. You need food either way, but your body creates a physical desire. In some people this mechanism is broken and they desire food even when they do not need it and will literally eat themselves to death.

Sex is another one, you need sex to continue the species, but there is a desire to go along with that need.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That is my point, whether I desire or not to be alone, my intellect would surely tell me that I need to cooperate.

That is what I am trying to say, anyway.

a reply to: Jonjonj

You think that because being human you have that desire and can't imagine not having it.

Other species are different, being smarter would not change what they are.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Ok no, what I am saying is that from my point of view, becoming intelligent enough to create the technology required to leave a planet simply wouldn't arise in a species that was individually isolated, that is what I am getting at.

It is just my opinion of course, but it goes to the very basis of the question as far as I can see.

This is not an anthropomorphic idea I believe, but rather a prerequisite for advanced technological development.

Is your opinion that it could be achieved by individuals within a species regardless of the others, and that they all become intelligent at the same rate, with no interaction?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Let us assume for a moment life exists outside of Earth. Let's also assume some of that life is intelligent.

Does intelligence necessitate civilization, and is leaving their planet a forgone conclusion?

For example, what if whales were every bit as intelligent as human beings? Would they be able to create a civilization such as the one we have built? Would their grasp ever extend to the heavens? Does their body mean they would be confined to the ocean forever?

Does this now add in another factor making it even more unlikely that intelligent life will ever find Earth? Is a body conducive towards using a variety of tools necessary to reach the stars?

In my opinion intelligence drives exploration and exploration drives evolution. Adapt or die.

To answer your question I believe that yes, leaving your planet is a forgone conclusion.

Nice thread by the way.

a reply to: angryhulk

How would a species such as a whale do so? Doesn't their body/environment mean no matter how intelligent they are stuck on this rock?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: angryhulk

How would a species such as a whale do so? Doesn't their body/environment mean no matter how intelligent they are stuck on this rock?

Your question is difficult to answer because there is endless opportunity for the evolution of an organism. In 1 billion years who knows what whales descendants are going to be doing. The whale might increase in size and have a flashing biological beacon on its forehead warning its friends when it is going to yawn. The whale might have decreased in size, grown legs and facial features, become a part-land mammal, with a similar appearance to a hippo (a relative of the whale, interestingly).

A good question would be, are humans inhibiting the evolution and/or growth of intelligence in other species.

a reply to: angryhulk

So you agree whales as they are today could not, they would need to evolve. Question, even if they grew arms/hands/thumbs, could they develop a civilization while under water?