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Thought about intelligent life on other planets

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posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:11 PM
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Let us assume for a moment life exists outside of Earth. Let's also assume some of that life is intelligent.

Does intelligence necessitate civilization, and is leaving their planet a forgone conclusion?

For example, what if whales were every bit as intelligent as human beings? Would they be able to create a civilization such as the one we have built? Would their grasp ever extend to the heavens? Does their body mean they would be confined to the ocean forever?

Does this now add in another factor making it even more unlikely that intelligent life will ever find Earth? Is a body conducive towards using a variety of tools necessary to reach the stars?




posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:21 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

For example, what if whales were every bit as intelligent as human beings? Would they be able to create a civilization such as the one we have built? Would their grasp ever extend to the heavens? Does their body mean they would be confined to the ocean forever?

Many neglect to consider the possibility that the whales (or whatever) are, in fact, much smarter than us, and have chosen their lives in their natural habitats as such because it is the intelligent thing to do--to forego ego and live harmoniously with their natural environment.

Humans, for as much as we'd like to think we're the pinnacle of intelligence, are actually pretty damn stupid.

Look at what we've done to our home, and what we can't stop doing to each other. It's possible that intelligent life on other planets figured all this out long ago, and rejected similar modes of living as completely asinine.

In such a case, they may likely have abandoned technology (or simply the systems that produce it) and we'd have no way of detecting them without direct contact.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:33 PM
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Who says a whale isn't as intelligent as humans? A whale does not need to build a house or start a business or even make bombs and weapons. Now a whale that made these even though they were not necessary for them would be pretty dumb.

Humans set the rules as how to judge to what intelligence is. They made it so we look like the most intelligent species.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:36 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther
Many neglect to consider the possibility that the whales (or whatever) are, in fact, much smarter than us



originally posted by: rickymouse
Who says a whale isn't as intelligent as humans? A whale does not need to build a house or start a business or even make bombs and weapons. Now a whale that made these even though they were not necessary for them would be pretty dumb.

Humans set the rules as how to judge to what intelligence is. They made it so we look like the most intelligent species.

I flat out said we are assuming they are as smart as humans. Your posts tend to suggest my premise that intellect alone will not bring a species to the stars is correct. There could be billions of intelligent species that simply do not have the body/conditions required to go beyond their world.
edit on 6-1-2016 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:40 PM
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You can be the most intelligent being in the Universe. If you haven't evolved opposable digits, you'll never build the machines necessary for interplanetary exploration. Watch out for the coons.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

As opposed to larger creatures (like the whale you mentioned), I always thought the likeliest intelligence we may encounter would be creatures like ants. Something that functions independently as units, but employs an effective hive-mind.

Ever wonder how insects like ants fare during space travel?




posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: Snarl

How would they build advanced machinery? They lack the capacity to think of those things.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: skunkape23

Exactly my thoughts too. It requires a certain body.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04


For example, what if whales were every bit as intelligent as human beings? Would they be able to create a civilization such as the one we have built? Would their grasp ever extend to the heavens?


would they worship the Holy White Whale?

Interesting question...

Said whale species would have to evolve to a point where their size isn't a factor... eventually every planet will die...

getting off of it before it happens is another story


edit on 7-1-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:54 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Snarl

How would they build advanced machinery? They lack the capacity to think of those things.


In this day and age we mighty humans cannot replicate this:

Therefore ... ants.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:54 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

I flat out said we are assuming they are as smart as humans. Your posts tend to suggest my premise that intellect alone will not bring a species to the stars is correct. There could be billions of intelligent species that simply do not have the body/conditions required to go beyond their world.

I'm saying that their intelligence (or perhaps their sense of morality) may actually prohibit them from ascribing to ideologies and implementing social systems that give rise to the development of advanced technology. From that angle, it really has nothing to do with their physical form.

But on that note: without bodies like we have, they couldn't build the machines that we have; however, that somewhat arrogantly (once again with us humans) assumes that the machines we have are the only ones that will get someone into orbit and beyond.

Different forms of life could build machines that are completely unrecognizable (to us) as such in both form and process. I don't think we can say with any confidence that other types of intelligent life would be restricted in the development of technology purely because of their physical form.
edit on 1/6/16 by NthOther because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:58 PM
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originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Snarl

How would they build advanced machinery? They lack the capacity to think of those things.


In this day and age we mighty humans cannot replicate this:

Therefore ... ants.


YES!!




posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: Snarl

Can't? Of course we could.



posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:00 AM
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originally posted by: NthOther

But on that note: without bodies like we have, they couldn't build the machines that we have; however, that somewhat arrogantly (once again with us humans) assumes that the machines we have are the only ones that will get someone into orbit and beyond.

Then give me an idea of how a whale, in their body, could get to orbit. It's not arrogance, it's just logic.



posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Let us assume for a moment life exists outside of Earth. Let's also assume some of that life is intelligent.

Okey dokey...


Does intelligence necessitate civilization,

Not necessarily.
There are many definitions of 'intelligence'.
One, for instance, is the ability to get a job accomplished!
Those with only the ability to fasten the Velcro on their sneakers, might be thought to have very limited intellect.
Passing through the vast spectrum, we now find those 'geniuses' who seem to have a direct connection to anything necessary to get any job done!
And in that case, 'civilization' has many definitions!
If a 'civilization' is any group, living and working together, for the betterment of all, harming none (unless of basic survival/necessity; food, for instance), then the whales are a beautiful civilization, being persecuted and driven from the planet by man.
Of course, man, according to that definition, is far from 'civilized'!
The tribe of ants in your yard is more 'civilized' then the entirety of the human race, ever!
They work in beautiful harmony and all do well, with little to no inp[act on surrounding environment!


and is leaving their planet a forgone conclusion?

If we were intelligent enough to live in peace and harmony and Love with all, we'd have no need or desire to flee our planet!
No matter how you slice it, it is 'fleeing' (perhaps in the guise of 'scientific exploration; where to flee)!


For example, what if whales were every bit as intelligent as human beings? Would they be able to create a civilization such as the one we have built?

You mean if they were as insane as we are, would they copy our dysfunctional presence?
Are you considering man's presence to be some pinnacle of 'civilization'?
I guess that depends on what definition you like... *__-


Would their grasp ever extend to the heavens? Does their body mean they would be confined to the ocean forever?

What one might see as a prison, another will find freedom, Love and peace... with no need to 'escape'!


Does this now add in another factor making it even more unlikely that intelligent life will ever find Earth?

I find damned little intelligent life here as it is! Why would we need the Joneses to come dropping in?
Why would they ever want to?
Food? Farm us?
Soylent green?
Fertilizer for their cannabis crops on planet Transsexual?


Is a body conducive towards using a variety of tools necessary to reach the stars?

It's amazing what we can do with all our wonderful tools! *__-
Why would the stars want us?
Would we be welcome?
Once they get to know/taste us?



posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:05 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Using the comparison of whales presents a problem for me.

How intelligent could a species be if it puts itself at the mercy of another, destructive and greedy species?

Many species of whale are dying out because of us so I am not sure we can consider them that intelligent, technologically speaking at least.

That is the problem I suppose, are we talking technological intelligence, or swimming around is great so I will just stay in the ocean intelligence.

I think that cooperation would be necessary for a species to be considered intelligent and cooperation seems to lead to societies.



Edit: About leaving their planet. The thing about life is that it always wants to expand and grow, so I suppose that once all the necessary resources are depleted it has three choices; learn to cope without what is necessary, however that might be possible, find a new place to live or die.
edit on 7-1-2016 by Jonjonj because: addition



posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: Jonjonj

imagine a world with only whales being the top predetor though...




posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Then give me an idea of how a whale, in their body, could get to orbit. It's not arrogance, it's just logic.

I'm not a whale. I don't think like a whale. I don't have the experience of a whale. I don't have fins, and I'm a little skinny for a whale.

I have no idea how to build a machine a whale could pilot into orbit. That doesn't mean the whale doesn't. The whale probably wouldn't be able to design a machine for us, either. It is outside their realm of potential experience.



posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Let us assume for a moment life exists outside of Earth. Let's also assume some of that life is intelligent.

Does intelligence necessitate civilization, and is leaving their planet a forgone conclusion?

For example, what if whales were every bit as intelligent as human beings? Would they be able to create a civilization such as the one we have built? Would their grasp ever extend to the heavens? Does their body mean they would be confined to the ocean forever?

Does this now add in another factor making it even more unlikely that intelligent life will ever find Earth? Is a body conducive towards using a variety of tools necessary to reach the stars?


I have already seen intelligent life visiting earth, so I already know that intelligence does indeed necessitate civilization or they would not have been able to cooperate and build the super advanced machines they use, not to mention the materials they can produce and use in their own fabrication of machines and technology.

I know plenty of other people who have also seen some of these beings and there are a lot more than one species who have already found earth. Some come here with only their own interests in mind, and don't give a rats behind about humans because we shoot at them, have shot at them, and sometimes still do. The very intelligent ones do not shoot back because they don't have to to survive. I have a first cousin who was a gunner on a chopper in the Vietnam war who also saw beings inside a saucer in a domed craft and the domes were transparent.

From your questions in the OP I am thinking you have never seen any of these craft or beings before, or you would already know that people from other places are here and have already been here and coming here.

If you really want to see them, go to places where loss of life is occurring, like in war zones. You are likely to then, but then that would be a dangerous way to see proof for yourself.



posted on Jan, 7 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Jonjonj

imagine a world with only whales being the top predetor though...



As most whales are not predators that would be a very lovely planet indeed.





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