Rendlesham Forest: Radiation Injuries & Causes

Excellent thread, really enjoying reading up on it all. Just something to throw into the mix. If these experiences are plucked from our subconscious and made real for us by an unknown mechanism then, in what might be termed an "anti-placebo" effect, people's individual injuries are commensurate with that those their sub concious believes would manifest? People's individual sub concious fears made real, you work with nuclear weapons it's perfectly natural to be worried deeply, if in a form of concious denial, about being exposed to them and their effects?

Were people such as Penniston and Burroughs given safety briefings about the materials they worked around and did that play into the after effects? That would explain the seemingly, random nature of their injuries and how, one suffers from one ailment another person something different yet commensurate with their own knowledge of the possible effects of working where they did? What one might call, the "Technological Witchdoctor effect"?

It strikes at a fundamental with regards to UFOs, what is reality? If you consider the whole phenomenon at it's heart we are talking about a challenge to our current perception of what we call reality. Their very existence/presence is an affront to our notion of reality be it the sheer size of these objects, from tiny to truly massive through every shape and form one can imagine, the phenomenon challenges not only our view of the Universe on the macro level rather, the Universe on the micro level as well. It's possible to postulate that, given the evidence we have, the phenomenon whilst appearing to be very "local" in it's nature, it could also be theorised that it's non local rather, a macro effect of another form of reality we as yet, have virtually zero understanding of? In simple terms, it is another reality invading, interloping, bumping into, crossing over into our version of reality.

Furthermore, if the common thread/factor between those realities is that, energy cannot be destroyed only transformed in its' nature then it could possibly be that, we interpret that energy transformation the only way our minds can cope and given the current state of understanding in 1980 that was to see the effects as nuclear in nature as that was, the big kahuna the "monster in the closet" waiting to escape and kill us all, at that point in time? These were military personnel, as such, their deepest fears would be to be overwhelmed by a military technology that was unstoppable and in 1980, that would have been, nuclear weaponry.?

a reply to: mirageman

I've read a little about Kit, and I also remember reading that post.

Non-ionising radiation isn't going to be stripping off electrons off the tissue. It will cook the tissue though, but with no obvious skin damage, that's hard to reconcile with, Larry's injuries which are so specific to ionising damage.

John's gums turning white would be better explained by uv or another non ionising source though.

Whilst I can see a non ionising source of radiation being capable, it's important to remember what non ionising is. It's photons without the energy to remove electrons from atoms.

So we are talking about a very short exposure to rays that are far less powerful than ionising, yet delivered the equivalent of radiological medical treatment.

Look at medical white papers on the sorts of injuries John has, and their equivalents in nuclear accidents and medical treatments and it's clear that somewhere between or exceeding 30-50 grays are required.

Remember - non ionising is far less powerful than ionising, meaning that to achieve the same effect - there would have to be vastly more exposure.

At this point, Kit's claim is a little like me saying I'm going to surround you with a LOT of non ionising sources ( UV lamps) and it's going to give you the equivalent exposure of tens of thousands of rads.

It's a glib comparison, but we know it can't be UV - there is no 'close encounters' sunburn. We know it can't be microwaves - Burroughs and co weren't cooked. Also, non ionising would affect the skin, unlike Gamma for instance which might pass through the skin and injure internal organs.


I've mentioned Terrahertz radiation a few times, as that is my secondary candidate. I was intending to do a little more research before discussing my thoughts.

Disregarding Larry's injuries (which perhaps can also be explained by Terrahertz radiation) as something i can't explain, we are left with Kits explanation.

Fundamentally, I trust Kits explaination as being honest and accurate. I believe Terrahertz radiation is the only likely alternative to an unsheilded nuclear reactor for the following reasons.

Again, remember that non ionising photons don't have the power to strip electrons. So we are looking at massive amounts of Terrahertz radiation released in a short space of time.

When could this have exposure have happened to John? When he was exposed to the reddish / Amber light that Adrain saw (after something 'pushed him to the ground).l envelop him.

Let's imagine we're the pilots or controllers of the craft?

The next logical question is why would you project a massive amount of visible light and Terrahertz down at the ground in the forest. Propulsion? Then why Terrahertz?

In fact, why would you be in the forest at all? When your supposed companion vehicles are flying over at altitude.

Why would you choose to fly at low level through the forest, when you can fly directly to the base?

It can't be for tactical or stealth reasons when your vehicle looks like a child's ride at a fun fair - with as many lights as possible.

- flying Christmas tree in forest
- has capability to fly directly to and over base and weapons dump and skip tedious forest probe
- if not nuclear, most likely candidate is Terrahertz radiation according to Johns injuries, Condign and Kit Green
- red light, most likely along with Terrahertz radiation beaming down at ground.
- Christmas tree probes forest with light as if, according to down witnesses, looking for something

Conclusion: vehicle was using Terrahertz radiation to scan below the ground of the forest.

Why: possible tunnels?

For those of you that say that tunnels are unlikely, I agree. I'm not saying this as a confirmation of dorm underground base.

There is however, one type of structure I'm fairly certain did run under the base and connect to others, including the over the horizon radar system.

Fibre optic cables.

Why do I say fairly certain? Woodbridge and Bentwaters were on Milnet. There are a couple of anecdotal reports of high tech 'broadband' connections being on the base dating back to the 70s or 80s. Apparently, these connections were too advanced, which is just not true.

Why would you need fibre optics? To link together massive amount of computing power to filter out and identity object and events reported by the radar.

The 'over the horizon radar' project was always going to require significant computing power. This was why, when talking about holograms or computer generated graphics in my first post, I spoke of the need for a local array of computers to generate the warping shadows.

Regardless of RFI - some system had to exist to process the data they expected to be getting, to filter out the noise and then deliver that data via Milnet.

The craft in the forest didn't, in my opinion, crash in a random location. Or randomly return for one or more nights.

They were searching for something.

There is one final conclusion I have regarding Kits statement - how can a floating Christmas tree generate enough power to hover and move for over 30 minutes, and shine lights and make no noise?

And generate massive amounts of Terrahertz waves?

It has to be either nuclear, some sort of projection or radar powered plasma or natural phenomena . Or ET. I think Hessdalen data can answer the natural scenario.

The projection scenario - ties in very nicely with Larry and Adrian's 'snowy' image of the craft, and the floating mechanical arm that appeared during a certain groups investigations of Uri Geller....

a reply to: FireMoon

Very thought provoking post indeed!

I'm currently considering the following scenarios / actors:

1) A non USAF / non soviet terrestrial craft* - employing plasma, nuclear and camouflage technology - most likely part of the 'West'
2) A hologram, perhaps using ultra sonics to create the illusion of solid matter. Utilising microwaves to generate false temperature inversions (the compressed 'aspirin shaped' fog) to create a projection screen, and laser projectors.
3) An extraterrestrial probe or craft that employs plasma

3) A natural plasma phenomena with no conscious intelligence - with a massive unknown power source
4) A plasma phenomena with some form of intelligence

The phenomena glows like a Christmas tree, gives off huge amounts of radiation and if we go by Kit Green's description, we're looking at that radiation being non ionising and most probably UV and terahertz based.

All five require:

- A huge amount of power generation
- A reason for multiple vehicles / orbs
- A method to cause hallucination (on purpose, or not)
- A reason for appearing at night - but being the most unstealthy phenomena possible.

I think what you are referring to would be a conscious plasma phenomena or phenomena controlled by an unknown intelligence, extraterrestrial life form, digital extraterrestrial intelligence, or human intelligence.

The biggest challenge facing any of these 4 actors - is the huge power requirements in a repeatable scenario.

Actors 4&5 - Hessdalen should be able answer this, likely in terms of radiation output and power levels

Actors 1&2&3 had to have a power source capable of propelling the device, generating the plasma, and the non ionising radiation. This was either on board or some sort of receiver was. I doubt any sort of RF power receiver or radar energy receiver would fare well in dense woodland.

I think there is a point where what you propose, the ET hypothesis and even natural plasma phenomena all coincide. I suspect that you are actually very close to what Colonel Halt privately believes.

I think it's possible to remove some of the actors based on the following likely scenarios:
- the power system was self contained due to the interference from the woods. (requires a power source)
- the system was guided or attracted by some basic principle or plan (radar energy or nuclear weapons)
- the vehicle entered the forest (as opposed to others that just scanned from above the base) for a reason (strategy)
- multiple objects and vehicles approached the base in different ways (tactic)
- emitting visible light, some sort of beam and radiation, without depleting the phenomena

That says to me an a collection of objects, guided by an over arching strategy or self organising principle. Each having a different start point (perhaps each taking the path of least resistance).

They are up there alright. Waiting for something and that something better not be us lot in their pot.

a reply to: ctj83

To be honest this is where I get lost in multiple hypotheses. Trying to concentrate on only what caused John Burroughs injuries is still a head scratcher.

No idea if this is useful. There is another part of it out there as well somewhere from the first night.



But I forgot John Burroughs hypnosis tape.

Now be clear that he is very careful to separate what he consciously remembers from what he said under hypnosis.

However it's interesting that he claims (under hypnosis) that Colonel Halt was not surprised to see him turn up on whilst off duty. He also felt Burroughs could bring 'the craft' closer to them.

Make of it all what you will.

Regards MM

Thanks for that MM, very intriguing. I suspect Colonel Halt is the mot aware of what the RFI really was.

Focussing on what happened to John, and his injuries, I think we can consider two possibilities:

- Kit Green is relating valid research A little known aspect of NIERM caused the injuries
- Kit Green is relating an unrelated theory and therefore ionising radiation was the cause. In this case we can be almost certain a man made nuclear incident occurred.

For my own part, I trust what Kit relates, as he could have chosen to say nothing and from what I've read of him nothing strike me as deliberate deception. Please note, that in his post, whilst he talks about the unrecognised dangers from non ionising radiation, he specifically refers to "He had injuries we now understand are related to narrow RF bandwidths". He speaks generally of EM, then focuses on narrow RF bandwidths...

That is quite a specific statement, that I'll return to at the end...

We then have the fairly straight forward task of examining the non ionising spectrum and identifying the most likely candidate.

Ultra Violet

A definite candidate for the retina damage, and possibly John's white gums. However, how can we explain the chest dosage occurring, with no sun burn? That assumes that such a dosage would be possible without destroying the epidermis. I think we have to rule out ultra violet as a primary candidate.

Visible Light

Ruled out due to the absurdity of surrounding the participants with massive amounts of light bulbs and expecting the same results as a serious radiological procedure.

Non coherent Infra Red

Ruled out due to the immense out of heat that would be felt, and the cooking effect. Needs to be close than 3 feet. Neither were reported.

Coherent Visible / Infrared - eg Lasers

John, Jim and Larry's arc eye could be explained by lasers or laser projectors. The internal injuries of John's cannot. Possible secondary cause, but not primary.

Microwave Radiation

No cooking of John and others observed. No pinching, stinging as felt by Paul Bennewitz and observers. Subject to inverse power law falloff, yet skin was not cooked.

Doesn't seem a likely candidate, unless the RFI was a weapons platform for extremely close range combat.

Terahertz Radiation

Useful for seeing 'through' things like flesh and walls, airport scanners etc. Current developments include a form of super fast wifi. This type of radiation falls off incredibly quickly, and I've read of its effectiveness falling off after around 10m.

Can terahertz waves cause tissue damage? The jury is out on that one, but, I think this is the one of the most likely 'conventional' candidates for John (and Larry's) exposure.


Low Frequency Radio Waves

Tingling of the skin is the main sensation, something that fits in with Rendlesham, but the rest of the damage seems unlikely.

ELF

Typically used for under ocean communication. Could possibly increase oxidative stress in tissues. My main query here is why would a phenomena of any origin need to pump out massive amounts of these waves in the middle of a forest? Secondly, I would not expect the symptoms do show up so fast. More on this later...

Static Magnetic Fields

The jury is still out on static magnetic fields, but as I've mentioned before, it's hard to imagine that fields could be strong enough and focussed enough to do heart damage, yet did not out right kill everyone, or cause them to have such hallucinations the they couldn't function.

The big example here is the MRI machine. We simply don't have much data suggesting that people using MRIs come away with balance problems, rapidly decaying teeth, white gums etc. Perhaps some sort of super conducting magnets with fields in the high Teslas could explain what happened, but it's too hard to speculate.

Conclusion

We can rule out visible light, infrared, ultraviolet, low frequency radio waves, microwaves. They just don't fit the bill.

We're left with some sort of incredibly powerful, focussed terahertz generator, ELF scanner or some sort of incredibly powerful static magnetic field. The problem with the 'static' field option is that we know that MRI scanners don't cause these types of injuries, and that cranial magnetic fields (God helmet and Condign proposed effects) would cause temporal lobe issues.

How can we have a localised field (head and chest), where we get huge damage (due to disruption of calcium channels) to the body, but we don't get paralysing brain interference?

Speculation

We're left with two options - terahertz, ELF radiation or incredibly powerful static magnetic fields. Neither in the forms we know them could achieve the results we see in John, and possibly Larry.

Regardless, John must have been very close to this NIERM to have been injured to the degree he was.

The second question is what powered these emissions? Condign asks us to believe that these are natural but rare phenomena. I simply don't see how we can have a phenomena, that would require more sustained power than multiple airport scanners, MRI machines, or LHCs, that also has a perceived preference for military and nuclear installations.

The third question is what were the emissions for? I don't believe that such emissions, in an engineered device would be at random, or inconsequential. Terahertz or ELF ground penetrating radio waves must be for scanning under the forest. Magnetics for detecting cavities in the soil, or buried electrical systems. Or some sort of MHD or advanced propulsion.

Finally, whilst Kit refers to EM generally he also says: "He had injuries we now understand are related to narrow RF bandwidths"

RF removes static electromagnetic fields, and the narrow RF bandwidths clearly refers to how we break up the spectrum into categories.

Therefore, having gone through the non ionising spectrum, and looked closely at Kit's statement, I think it's fairly clear that there are only two RF bandwidths that could be responsible:

>Terahertz radiation - Typically used to 'see through objects' and more recently proposed as a form of high speed WIFI at short range
> ELF - Used for it's ability to scan underground ELF ground penetrating as well as submarine communications and atmospheric research

I think we can remove the WIFI angle, submarine comms. I won't rule out atmospheric research, but the ability to move the 'projection' in densely wooded area seems unlikely.

In my opinion, after examining the spectrum and considering Dr Green's statement, we are compelled to remove visible light, infra red, ultra violet, microwaves and static electric fields. We are left with Terahertz radiation and ELF - and emissions that were of a power far higher than any regular application. The applications that best fit the location and both types of RF bandwidth is subterranean exploration.

I think subterranean scanning is the best fit explanation for these questions:

- What cause John's injuries (he was stood under the RF scanning beam)
- Why was the phenomena in the woods? the craft was scanning under the forest.

a reply to: ctj83

That subterranean scanning theory is a most interesting one and implies that someone or 'something' was scanning the area around the base.

Would you say with any degree of certainty that John's (and Larry's) injuries were definitely caused by some strange object/weapon/air form/phenomenon out in Rendlesham Forest over those couple of night back in 1980?

Or is there another possibility?

By that I am saying that (as far as we know) none of the other airmen seemed to suffer such serious injuries. So could John Burroughs & Larry Warren have been exposed to something around the time of the incident but not actually related directly to it? Is there something else being hidden thatthe UFO story provides a convenient cover for?

a reply to: mirageman

Id say this incident is very likely to be the cause. I'm not trying to suggest this phenomena is definitely human, non human or even natural. Just following the most likely aspects...

I think the lack of injuries can be explained by not being under or next to the craft. With both ionising radiation and ELF / Terrahertz, these are are experiencing the inverse square fall off and or are specifically directed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Halt and Bustinza at a minimum had flash burns on their retinas. Is there any evidence of that? That would be revealing...

As you've said yourself, Burroughs injuries began soon after. Warren's retina damage in his medical records also (not the skin weeping).

I can easily consider the idea that the UFO story was changed or exaggerated to cover up the nature of this event.

To say that it covered up another earlier event requires:

- A small time window when John and Larry were at Bentwaters and had their PRP and were on duty
- Bustinza, Halt and many others would likely not have been involved in the 'pre' event but we're still involved in the RFI - whatever it was

If you remove Larry, then the whole event was staged to cover up something that gave Burroughs serious health issues, but did not kill him?

That seems unlikely, an event which caused life time Heath issues, didn't kill him, and hasn't been recounted to us.

The RFI would be a huge amount of effort to cover that up, as either an imagined event or practical theatre.

For one or two men, it could have been explained in much simpler ways, ignored or them simply given disability with some sort of conventional cover story.

The consequences of RFI, whilst huge for many participants in a mental health sense, have only affected a few in terms of quality of life. I just don't see that the risks of sparking an international incident or having people look closely at the twin bases was really worth that.

Whatever RFI was, I believe it was not intended to hide injuries to John and possibly Larry. It's just too implausible.

ELF and Terehertz radiation can describe so many features:

- Tingling skin
- loss of balance
- non ionising injuries
- Kit Greens statement (I believe his statement to be honest, if not exactly spelling it out for us)
- The Condign Report

For my own part, unless new health implications are discovered or revealed for John or the others - I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be possible to come to a more likely explaination of what caused the injuries.

I'd speculate that the craft in the woods either functioned as a decoy for the overhead craft, or vice versa.

In my opinion there is no logical reason to have craft that can fly and hover with typical flight characteristics described, then spend significant time meandering through the woods with bright lights flashing.

One was a decoy for the other.

With the woodlands / landed craft we have significant evidence of emissions that are likely in a bandwith that has only a few purposes at this time.

a reply to: mirageman

First post from a long time lurker and intrigued fan.

The subterranian scanning made me think about a device that could scan for underground fiber optics cables and establish a link to convert them to radio signals or vice versa.

It's just a thought (I'm not a specialist on radio or optical signals) and I'm not even sure if this can be done remotely.

Check radio over fiber on Wikipedia. One of it's applications now is access in dead zones like for instance jungles. This could explain the test in a forrest.

Just some random thoughts...

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

What an interesting suggestion! I'm certain that the base will have had networking cables connecting it to the various nearby facilities. That the twin bases were on Milnet is a matter of record, and there would have need to have been some provision for secure data transfer from the Cobra Mist test. Was it fibre optic - possibly, we have anecdotal evidence that is was, and no real reason for someone to lie about that.

Cables to the other base probably ran approximately north. Cables to the radar installation would probably have run approximately east to the coast, and that would put them under the general area of the woodland sightings.

On the other hand, if no underground cables exist, I don't think that means that subterranean scanning wasn't occurring.

a reply to: ctj83

I was thinking in terms of a 'broken arrow' (Nuclear accident of some kind). But there is little evidence for it to be honest.

Just to add another conundrum into the mix. There was mention of people flown in after the incident and working at the perimeter fence. This was in Georgina Bruni's book "You Can't Tell the People". What their purpose was still seems unclear.




You may want to try searching the book. A large chunk of it is searchable on Google Books at the below link.

Link : You Can't Tell the People

Larry Warren's book is also available in parts as well :

Link : Left At East Gate

Both can be searched using key words so I hope that helps with your research (and anyone else's).

a reply to: mirageman

Actually, my initial thought was also a broken arrow, and I struggled to find evidence.

I think the time time window for the participants to have been together, and on duty / prp is very narrow. Next is the location of the craft, and the lack of reports of explosions. A good example of how a top level craft is dealt with is RAF Boscombe Down. If the RFI was a top secret crash or broken arrow that was so well hidden as to have virtually no rumours, then why even create the UFO cover story.

This would be a simple solution. Give Penniston and Warren early retirement and medical care or desk jobs. Cheap, ethical, no loose ends. Remind them that it was an unfortunate but defence significant incident.

I'm just rereading 'You Can't Tell The People'.

I think the final stop for me on the 'biological side' is the visual issues described by the key participants of the craft appearing like a snowy image, and more importantly why Bustinza and Warren could only view the object with peripheral vision.

According to a radio interview with the two, looking head on at the object was very hard, but looking with peripheral vision, suddenly it was clear.

That is another 'odd' and specific element. I can't imagine why anyone would fabricate such an odd detail, or why someone would think to implant such an element with hypnosis.

Also, peripheral vision involves rods which are more light sensitive than cones and more motion sensitive.

The only time that peripheral vision should have an advantage is in dark situations.

Any ideas for research avenues there?

a reply to: ctj83

I think the final stop for me on the 'biological side' is the visual issues described by the key participants of the craft appearing like a snowy image, and more importantly why Bustinza and Warren could only view the object with peripheral vision. ..........

The only time that peripheral vision should have an advantage is in dark situations.

Any ideas for research avenues there?

That (and the static like effects in the atmosphere reported) are puzzling. I'd also like to know what the cause of the blue orbs/lights that almost everyone involved seemed to report.

Maybe something away from the usual (UFO) sources will prove more fruitful?

originally posted by: FireMoon

Excellent thread, really enjoying reading up on it all.

I'd like to second that mate and certainly some fascinating reading and research conducted on this thread.

Haven't got much to add other than I always remember Nick Pope seeming to slip up in this interview and mention that 'evidence' for this case was sent to a military installation in Germany (but doesn't mention the nature of it).

Cheers.

originally posted by: ctj83
John's gums turning white would be better explained by uv or another non ionising source though.

Far UV is ionizing. UV exposure doesn't generally turn your gums white, I wouldn't think.

Remember - non ionising is far less powerful than ionising, meaning that to achieve the same effect - there would have to be vastly more exposure.

Non-ionizing radiation has less energy photon for photon, but that hasn't got anything to do with total energy.

I've mentioned Terrahertz radiation a few times, as that is my secondary candidate. I was intending to do a little more research before discussing my thoughts.

Terahertz. T-waves don't penetrate people very well. You've got refraction, reflection and absorption issues. Low end Twaves at high amplitude will heat your epidermis quite well, though, although it doesn't penetrate. You'd know it.

In fact, why would you be in the forest at all? When your supposed companion vehicles are flying over at altitude.

Why would you choose to fly at low level through the forest, when you can fly directly to the base?

It can't be for tactical or stealth reasons when your vehicle looks like a child's ride at a fun fair - with as many lights as possible.

Drive failure.

Conclusion: vehicle was using Terrahertz radiation to scan below the ground of the forest.

T-waves don't penetrate the ground very well for the same reason they don't penetrate you. And fog really absorbs them. So does rain.

There is however, one type of structure I'm fairly certain did run under the base and connect to others, including the over the horizon radar system.

Fibre optic cables.

Are not visible to t-waves, typically. If they're in a metal sheath, you can't tell it from coax. If not, they look like dirt.

Why do I say fairly certain? Woodbridge and Bentwaters were on Milnet. There are a couple of anecdotal reports of high tech 'broadband' connections being on the base dating back to the 70s or 80s. Apparently, these connections were too advanced, which is just not true.

Coax.

Why would you need fibre optics? To link together massive amount of computing power to filter out and identity object and events reported by the radar.

The data rate for OTH typically isn't that high, because the wavelengths are comparatively long. Otherwise it wouldn't be OTH.

The 'over the horizon radar' project was always going to require significant computing power. This was why, when talking about holograms or computer generated graphics in my first post, I spoke of the need for a local array of computers to generate the warping shadows.

Good luck generating actual shadows with a hologram. Plus you're missing all the non-linear parts you need to re-mix a reference beam with the data beam, but whatever. No one's done free-standing air projected holograms. Despite everyone and their dog trying to call any volumetric imaging system or Pepper's Ghost a hologram.

It has to be either nuclear, some sort of projection or radar powered plasma or natural phenomena . Or ET. I think Hessdalen data can answer the natural scenario.

Why? Sounds like a false dichotomy to me. And why a radar powered plasma? You rarely get plasma formation from radar, and certainly not from a low frequency oth.

originally posted by: ctj83

We're left with some sort of incredibly powerful, focussed terahertz generator, ELF scanner or some sort of incredibly powerful static magnetic field. The problem with the 'static' field option is that we know that MRI scanners don't cause these types of injuries, and that cranial magnetic fields (God helmet and Condign proposed effects) would cause temporal lobe issues.

How can we have a localised field (head and chest), where we get huge damage (due to disruption of calcium channels) to the body, but we don't get paralysing brain interference?

Well, you certainly won't be getting it from ELF, your focal spot would be a few thousand kilometers. And about 35W radiated power is the best that's been done so far. Plus if your supposed ELF was from the craft, you'd be in the near field. You can't just emit ELF from a small source. Plus, did the men have any ferromagnetic material anywhere on them, or anywhere near by? You stated there were vehicles, yes? That's it for a static magnetic field large enough to cause tissue damage. Plus you can't focus that, either.

a reply to: Bedlam

That's awesome, thanks Bedlam! A lot to digest.

Very interesting about fibre optics and Terehertz radiation. I'm not sure fog or rain are an issue, but the heating effects certainly are.

I'm unable to reconcile Kit's RF bandwidths, papers on the subject and the lack of skin heating. Any thoughts?

In terms of exposure required for non ionising radiation to achieve similar levels of exposure it seems I've misunderstood. Are you able to estimate the amount of non ionising radiation required to achieve the injuries? Would it be incorrect to say that it's unlikely to be insignificant?

Do you think this materially changes Kits statement that John's injuries were from non ionising RF?

I've found a few medical papers about UV and white gums, so it is possible but unlikely I think? Far UV would explain the arc eye, in fact I can't see another explanation?


The fibre optic presence is from a previous thread on this forum from a broadband installation at the base it's the only evidence we have for fibre optic though. Coax is a decent fit thiugh

The low bandwidth aspect of OTH is interesting but doesn't really change much. I guess there was either cabling in the forest or there wasn't. The part about signal processing is from declassified papers on Cobra Mist along with the cabling.

Re shadow warping, i should have referred to my original post.I was referring to a pet theory of active camouflage system using combination of Ray casting and a point based shadow map perhaps using some sort of projection screen or craft surface. Holograms, I've no idea about, so I'm happy to rule them out.

Radar plasma, only what I've read from others, I've no conception of how that could work in real life m. Happy to remove the radar / plasma option.

So that's radar induced pleasant looking unlikely and holograms. Perhaps this all was some sort of directed Em weapon / active denial system after all?

a reply to: Bedlam

That's rules out magnetics, which seemed unlikely to me for other reasons but physically, I wasn't sure.

Assuming that ELF is physically impossible in a craft that size as you suggest, then what is left?

What part of the spectrum / RF bandwidth would you identify?

It caused extensive tissue damage to Johns chest and upper area, incredibly similar to radiation therapy. According to Kit, it's non ionising and RF and there is little literature on the topic.

The emitter has to physically fit in the craft and not cause heating? ElF has the scant medical references that Kit describes, can you say at what point heating would occur - if at all? Or is there another bandwidth that fits the bill?

a reply to: mirageman

I've ignored those as I'm at a complete loss to explain then In any any conventional sense.

a reply to: ctj83

Why does it have to be one thing?

If you've got everyone with sandy eyes, you've likely got UV. It fits there, and you don't *have* to have enough to also burn your skin. Especially if you had UV emission for a brief time.

As far as the tissue damage, I'd have to look at it, did the guy have any blood dyscrasias after? Was the guy with white gums also the one with the burns? And were the gums on the scene or later? He might have had bone marrow suppression and a low H/H from that, if the white gum part was some time after. That would point toward gamma or x-rays. But those are the sorts of things one person could get and another not.

Were they carrying any sort of detection equipment for ionizing radiation? Did they have film cameras? Any fogging?

Anyone have what might have looked like shearing force injuries?