Rendlesham Forest: Radiation Injuries & Causes

a reply to: Bedlam

That's the problem, there isn't one with burns or any form of skin damage. Larry Warrens back did weep blood a few years later, I forget the name of the condition.

I think the eyes were connected with UV. John's mitral valve damage etc is what is at the centre of the ionising , non ionising puzzle.

John's gums were reported weeks after, but we have no evidence of them immediately after. Supposedly he was enveloped by the light shone down by the craft. He only remembers running towards to the light, not being enveloped. That comes from others.

There were gieger counters, some at ten times background level, according to Nick Pope,but the readings have been strongly disputed.

Rumours of photos taken without permission, that were fogged but these might stem from a fake roll of film that was intentionally allowed to be confiscated. I've never seen any evidence here.

No shearing injuries I'm aware of or any magnetic effects. The Condign report suggests that John and others were physically and possibly mentally affected by extended to UAP radiation.

Kit Green says that John's medical records won't be declassified but the portion revealed to his medical care team showed his injuries were caused by exposure to non ionising radiation, specifically narrow bandwidths of RF.

Drive Failure?? @Bedlam you rascal.

Care to elaborate at all?

originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: Bedlam


I think the eyes were connected with UV. John's mitral valve damage etc is what is at the centre of the ionising , non ionising puzzle.

Questions - did he have mitral valve damage prior? And is the condition now unusual for someone of his age? My mom's got a dicky mitral, but no UFOs were involved. Just popping up with an MVP isn't necessarily indicative of anything, especially if no other injuries were involved. Even WITH an injury, I'd be hard-pressed to understand how you get a mitral valve injury and not a tricuspid, or bruising, or whatnot. I think it's a red herring.

The other option with eyes is a chemical leak, which would also account, possibly, for disorientation, confusion and the fog that was present. And, depending on the agent, possibly the pale gums/low hemoglobin.

John's gums were reported weeks after, but we have no evidence of them immediately after. Supposedly he was enveloped by the light shone down by the craft. He only remembers running towards to the light, not being enveloped. That comes from others.

And did he have a blood count? If I were a physician and you presented to ME with white gums or pale conjunctiva, I'd have done a CBC on you in a blink.

There were gieger counters, some at ten times background level, according to Nick Pope,but the readings have been strongly disputed.

10x background isn't enough to consider, background being paltry. It sounds better stated that way, though.

No shearing injuries I'm aware of or any magnetic effects. The Condign report suggests that John and others were physically and possibly mentally affected by extended to UAP radiation.

Didn't one of them have odd chest injuries? Shear force shows up as weird bruises, damaged skin etc.

Kit Green says that John's medical records won't be declassified but the portion revealed to his medical care team showed his injuries were caused by exposure to non ionising radiation, specifically narrow bandwidths of RF.

I'd LOVE to see the test or diagnostic that can tell you that. Seems a bit whiff. Especially with records you can't see. RF's only injury mechanism is heat. Unless he was cooked, no go. And you wouldn't be able to state "specifically narrow bandwidths". Exactly how is that determined, do you think?

a reply to: Jukiodone

eh, probably not.

I wroted you an answer, but I eated it. One might look at Cash/Landrum and this one as being related, in the same way a defective part or software upgrade might make its way into a set of scheduled maintenances of a group of craft, which then deployed and immediately had issues that resulted in a grounding until the issue could be resolved.

It's also one of those older generation things. All done differently now, seesaw descents, wholesale interference with electronics, and heat-mirage distortions below the craft are all one with yesterday's snows.

a reply to: Bedlam

John's injuries were discovered in the weeks following the event.

The DOD and VA recently settled with him in terms of medical care and expenses. Initially, they argued that he was not on duty on the night of his encounter, which, is essentially backed up by the audio on the Halt tape.

Kit's statement about narrow RF bands is supposedly from John's classified records, and that information was given to John's medial team (and possibly surgeons).

Kit states that the damage is produced by a little known effect of non-ionising RF radiation.

If it's a 'red herring', which is possible, then why would the DOD / VA settle on the basis of the claim that his encounter in the woods caused by the craft / vehicle he approached?

Larry had injuries that the physicians said resembled the sort of results of being exposed to unshielded nuclear devices, but that the effects usually took decades to appear.

a reply to: Bedlam

John's injuries were discovered in the weeks following the event.

The DOD and VA recently settled with him in terms of medical care and expenses. Initially, they argued that he was not on duty on the night of his encounter, which, is essentially backed up by the audio on the Halt tape.

Kit's statement about narrow RF bands is supposedly from John's classified records, and that information was given to John's medial team (and possibly surgeons).

Kit states that the damage is produced by a little known effect of non-ionising RF radiation.

If it's a 'red herring', which is possible, then why would the DOD / VA settle on the basis of the claim that his encounter in the woods caused by the craft / vehicle he approached?

Larry had injuries that the physicians said resembled the sort of results of being exposed to unshielded nuclear devices, but that the effects usually took decades to appear.

originally posted by: ctj83

The DOD and VA recently settled with him in terms of medical care and expenses. Initially, they argued that he was not on duty on the night of his encounter, which, is essentially backed up by the audio on the Halt tape.

That's not proof that a mitral valve injury occurred during an encounter, just that they're going to cover him as if he were on duty.

Kit's statement about narrow RF bands is supposedly from John's classified records, and that information was given to John's medial team (and possibly surgeons).

If they're classified, how does he rate seeing them? And, again, there's no diagnostic or test that would tell you what sort of RF it was. It's one of those little things that, combined with "and no one else can see the records" sounds a bit dicey.

Kit states that the damage is produced by a little known effect of non-ionising RF radiation.

Well, hell, I'm an expert on RF. It must be little known. But maybe he can state what that little known effect is. I'm familiar with RF burns. By Maxwell, you are going to get dissipation of energy as heat. If Kit is invoking calcium channel leakage, that's not only sort of equivocal in the lit, it doesn't cause immediate damage. If you had RF of high enough energy density to cause wide spread cell apoptosis by ion channel opening, you'd be cooked like a turkey first.

If it's a 'red herring', which is possible, then why would the DOD / VA settle on the basis of the claim that his encounter in the woods caused by the craft / vehicle he approached?

All he's got to do is show he had a new medical condition whilst on the job. A firefighter is always covered for heart damage as if it were a job related injury, for instance, even if he smokes 10 packs of cigs a day and eats a pound of lard for two of his meals.

Larry had injuries that the physicians said resembled the sort of results of being exposed to unshielded nuclear devices, but that the effects usually took decades to appear.

Is this the same deal where we can't see the records? Again, it's one of those TMI slipups. What sorts of injuries are caused by unshielded "nuclear devices" (do they mean reactors, weapons, soil meters?) that are specific to a lack of shielding? And what sort of shielding? If you said "he's got symptoms that are congruent with exposure to ionizing radiation" then that's a lot more believable than "he's got symptoms that are specific to a lack of neutron thermalization layers in a Naval reactor", because there's just no test that's specific for that, just as there's not for "wideband RF" vs "narrowband RF" and due to a mysterious effect that's not known to experts in the field and the proof for which the claimant somehow saw but no one else can.

eta: I'm not stating that nothing happened. However, understanding a bit about RF and biology, I'm not certain how you get something so specific as a mitral valve prolapse from an external event, no matter how pickily you are allowed to choose your event. The modified TDAMH excuse on not presenting data that's also "little known" to the point you can't substantiate it is also a bit worrisome.

a reply to: karl 12

......I always remember Nick Pope seeming to slip up in this interview and mention that 'evidence' for this case was sent to a military installation in Germany (but doesn't mention the nature of it).

Hello Karl, nice to hear from you again mate.

Yep there is actually a "loose minute memo" from RAF Sqd. Ldr Badcock date 16th Feb 1981 sent to DS8.



The key details concerning General Gabriel (who at the time was the USAFE Commander in Chief (and of the Allied NATO Air Forces) are :

....tape recorders of the evidence had been handed to General Gabriel who happened to be visiting the station. Perhaps it would be reasonable to ask if we could have tape recordings as well"

General Gabriel had made an official visit in early December of 1980. Now he may have made regular monthly visits to all his major USAF bases in Europe. But this seems like a little more than coincidence that he turned up again and removed evidence a month later.

What tape recorders did he remove? It could mean Halt's recording but as it clearly states recorders (plural) then my guess is it was tapes of the communications net on the nights in question. And if it was only Halt's recording then it would have been easier to dub a cassette and send it on the next flight to Ramstein where Gabriel was based.

I assume the RAF never got hold of copies!

Because this is where the trail appears to have ran cold.

a reply to: mirageman

Going back to the blue lights - I've just noticed that John mentioned seeing them in one of the videos you posted in this thread.

Also, I'm less than clear but I get the suggestion that John saw a face in one?

I don't think these can be explained in any way that fits the terrestrial vehicles scenario, but similar balls were present in the Paul Bennewitz incident, in his property.

a reply to: Bedlam

Sorry, I don't venture into this forum often but thing are slow at the ones I frequent and this always seems to be a good place to catch some aircraft and military projects from a different angle. I'm not into UFO research but omewhat familiar with these cases, so I would assume this connection has been drawn before?:

Rendlesham Forest incident - December 26-28, 1980
Cash-Landrum incident - December 29, 1980

Has to be more than a little co-inky-dink, huh? Thank you for turning that bulb on for me, if that is indeed what it was.

a reply to: Bedlam

Puzzling.....I thought about this after Astr0 suggested the same thing.

If the scenario of a drive failure presents options:

A: Go the local military base, light up like a christmas tree, attract the attention of lots of people then irradiate some bystanders....

or

B: Go hover over the nearby Sea and have some privacy as you reboot/implode/tear an inter dimensional rip

B wins it every time.

If the "Drive" can fail then what happens if the the nav system fails as well???
Maybe it mistakenly identifies the local vicarage as the local military base and irradiates the old ladies from the Womens Institute fundraiser???

Cash Landrum has its inescapable faults as well so is this the commonality?
A beam/radiation so powerful it melts a dash board- but the old dears only get a rash then live to be 80?
(Ladies who drive interstate at night with a 7 year old to search out Bingo games- it's never an irradiated Yale educated lawyer is it ?)

I completely agree with (and was educated by) your other comments so obviously your referral to drive failures has me head scratching as operating experimental craft that might have such failures over populated, friendly territory still has no plausible explanation.

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originally posted by: Jukiodone
I completely agree with (and was educated by) your other comments so obviously your referral to drive failures has me head scratching as operating experimental craft that might have such failures over populated, friendly territory still has no plausible explanation.

When the feces hits the ventilator, you don't always have time to go boom over the ocean. Dropping it in an isolated area is a great idea, as is a local military base.

a reply to: Bedlam

Cash-landrum always seemed to me to be an (early?) experiment using a Flame Jet Generator to achieve very high electrical voltage. Maybe some weird attempt at TT Brown-ish principles to get something to hover?

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Jukiodone
I completely agree with (and was educated by) your other comments so obviously your referral to drive failures has me head scratching as operating experimental craft that might have such failures over populated, friendly territory still has no plausible explanation.

When the feces hits the ventilator, you don't always have time to go boom over the ocean. Dropping it in an isolated area is a great idea, as is a local military base.

Rendlesham is 10 KM from the North Sea.
Seems odd to have an exotic craft operating over a densely populated area like the UK that cant maneuver 10 KM in the event of SHTF.

To find anywhere truly isolated (if you are low flying and illuminated) is nigh on impossible.

Seems like a roll of the dice secretive people wouldn't take given all of the potential legal and political issues if/when the gremlins strike (and they did- allegedly).

The "great idea" sentiment only holds true in reality if the base is adequately briefed (fail) and the location is isolated enough to ensure people don't get a good look/irradiated (fail again).

originally posted by: Jukiodone
The "great idea" sentiment only holds true in reality if the base is adequately briefed (fail) and the location is isolated enough to ensure people don't get a good look/irradiated (fail again).

Eh. The first drive failure they had was similar. Bad location, too many witnesses.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Yep. I am not an expert on radiation but I can't see anything (currently) that links the Cash-Landrum Case to Rendlesham.

Sure the events at Rendlesham seemed to end on the night of the 27th/28th December with Cash-Landrum occurring around 24 hours (given time zone adjustments) later.

But that is the only thing that, tenuously, links the two incidents together. I think the fact surrounding Cash-Landrum point to something military whilst the Rendlesham case could be anything from nothing much at all, to something beyond our current understanding.

Is there something I've missed?

a reply to: Jukiodone

I think the probability of a craft of any origin having some sort of failure being involved in RFI is just not logically tenable.

1) The craft displays ridiculous christmas tree lights - as some sort of 'hazard lights'?
2) It returns over multiple nights, to the area outside the base ?
3) Related craft fly over the base, but don't help it ?
4) It was hidden during the day, then wheeled out at night?

The location isn't random, at all, no way is this a random crash site.

I've got to agree with you, it just seems too unlikely.

originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: Jukiodone

I think the probability of a craft of any origin having some sort of failure being involved in RFI is just not logically tenable.

1) The craft displays ridiculous christmas tree lights - as some sort of 'hazard lights'?
2) It returns over multiple nights, to the area outside the base ?
3) Related craft fly over the base, but don't help it ?
4) It was hidden during the day, then wheeled out at night?

The location isn't random, at all, no way is this a random crash site.

I've got to agree with you, it just seems too unlikely.

That's of course if it was a 'craft'. The evidence is inconclusive.

Not only that if related 'craft' were buzzing all over the skies around Woodbridge and Bentwaters and sending beams of light down into sensitive areas of the bases then you would think that a full alert and call for at least some sort of fighter cover would have been made. But no it never happened.

The cash Landrum case. I get the hull shape. I get the rim of blue lights. Even think I got a pretty good idea what color blue it was. Here's what I don't get. Why shoot flames out the bottom? Did it have a hull rupture and some stuff was spewing out. Was it a flame jet generator and in accord with observations lost lift when the flames stopped or diminished since less voltage for presumably the propulsion system. Which would have needed a ton of voltage if it were indeed using a flame jet generator.

And where the hell was is going. The cash landrum case basically happened in a suburb of Huston. Wheres the nearest base it could have been heading for? Ellington? dysee (sp)?

a reply to: mirageman

Hey MM, I've found a declassified Air Force technical document, that I'm currently absorbing. Once I've completed it, I'll provide a link in this thread. I think it's incredibly important and fully backs up Kit's statements, and could possibly explain the "radiation exposure" irregularities in both Cash Landrum and more so in RFI.

What it reveals, is that classical theory is wrong, in certain cases, about several aspects of electromagnetic theory.

1) That classical electrodynamics is wrong and in certain circumstances, even visible light can penetrate deep into the body
2) That ELF can affect the body, even in the near field (Eg, up close) - even with wavelengths of thousands of miles
3) That millimetre waves (Terahertz), at low power can be made to penetrate tissue
4) That heating effects (which can be avoided) are not the only biological effects caused by RF radiation
5) The due to the low power involved in such waves (Terahertz waves) in certain circumstances they too can penetrate the body fully
6) Specifically, that chicken heart cells can be severely damaged by these techniques.

I find this report incredibly relevant because it addresses the ability of ELF to affect the human body in the near field, when classically it shouldn't. That the heating effect can be avoided, and biological damage can be inflicted without heating. That Terahertz waves can penetrate deep into the body.

I think this report is very relevant because:
- It focuses on the types of RF radiation I've identified by a process of elimination
- It describes how the various 'classical' RF problems, such as wavelength, penetration depth and non heat based biological damage can occur.

The report surmises the quantum mechanics may underly the experimental results observed. More importantly - this report states that the assumption that 'a microwave is a microwave' is totally wrong. There are conditions where very different types of results can be achieved,but they are frequency specific and some use various techniques.

Frequency specific. Where have we heard that before? Kit talks of narrow bands of RF.

Apparently we are talking about radically different effects with just a 0.01 hertz difference!The paper refers to itself as "admittedly Buck Rodgers". I'd be surprised if Kit wasn't referring to this paper, or the papers and research he referenced, when he spoke of John's injuries and little known research.

Most of the papers referenced are from the early 80s...