A Question For Gay People

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Ummm...too cool...I prefer to leave the power boat in the boathouse and sail away from the dock under wind anyways...the only time I fire up the outboard on the sailboat is when the wind dies down to nothing...I like to bring her back in under sail as well...one leg hooked around the aft stay...the tiller hooked behind the other knee...and a foresail and main sheet in either hand...with a sh#t eating grin from ear to ear...




YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

How big is your boat?
Ours is a Catalina 22. It's in Florida now, being refurbished and used by a neighbor.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Ummm...it's a 25 ft shoal draft Oday...that I picked up for a song...I sold the other one a 27 ft Oday fixed fin keel last
fall...
The powerboat is a 22 ft Chaparral cuddy cabin with a 260hp Merc IO...I love how rock solid Chaparral built the boat...

My dream is to retire down in the Bahamas with a 60 footer...cutter or ketch...(or larger)...I hate this living up in almost Canada having to haul the boats every winter...But you Can't beat the Thousand Islands for boating...(as long as you keep your hull and drive off of the shoals that is)


YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

And you sail it single-handedly? (I mean, with both hands, but no crew )

Wow! Well done, you!
My dad rigged up the 22 to sail by himself with all sorts of tweaks and add-ons.

A fabulous sport - nothing like it.

One of the most perfect days of my life (possibly even THE most perfect), was one summer - I rode my red mare down into the bluff trails by the river with my dog Faith tagging along - came back after a couple of hours, and then went to meet my dad out at the lake for an afternoon of sailing.

PURE BLISS.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Ummm...yeah...I love to singlehand...It's not that I don't like to bring others along...it's just more of a spiritual adventure for me to be out there with just the wind...waves and my sloop for company...

I often get asked why I have so many toys...I just give them a puzzled look and ask...What toy's...?
They then state...well...you know...all the boats and things...

My reply just seems to baffle them...I tell them that those aren't toys...they're needful things...I use them to dissipate aggravation and depression...to relieve stress...and to engage enjoyment...Totally needful...

That day sounds like one that anyone could treasure...I miss riding...and caring for horses...I used to drive a carriage and sleigh for weddings and other occasions...all while dressed in top hat and tails...it was a lot of fun...
I would love to own a matched pair of coal black Friesian carriage and saddle broken...With one of those carriages that you see in the old movies...

Not sure how I'd get them on the sailboat though...




YouSir

a reply to: stolencar18

I've asked that very same question to a close gay friend of mine. His answer was... Some choose to display that behavior such as: The use of gestures, tone of voice, etc. for the purpose of identifying themselves as gay.
He mentioned not having an attraction to those individuals, but rather the ones that carry themselves with more masculinity.

a reply to: YouSir

I would love to own a matched pair of coal black Friesian carriage and saddle broken...With one of those carriages that you see in the old movies...

Ruh ro.
I'm falling for youSir.

*sigh*

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Ummm...you have a refined sense of humor...I've enjoyed chatting with you...You brought back memories to me of a time when I was a good deal more innocent than I am now...For that I thank you...If as has been related that "all the world's a stage"...then I applaud the part you played here with me...

Thank you

Be well my friend




YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

You, too.
I'll fantasize about you now - just so you know.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Ummm...I certainly hope so...wouldn't the world be such a dull place if we didn't have at least that...?




YouSir

lol just so amazing how someone thinks stuff ive wondered but beat me to it lol. u got the cojones, i didnt hahahaha!

a reply to: stolencar18

a reply to: ketsuko
Don't really understand to any degree any of the answers. It all seems too pat and dry. I, personally, am a totally heterosexual woman. However, don't know or have ever understood why I had an extremely deep crush on a gay, extremely handsome, educated, perfectly groomed man I met through my husband. The gay gentleman, in every sense of the word, was in a very monogamous relationship with another almost equally attractive gentlemen. I loved my husband and had no intentions of straying, however it remains to this day one of my very few extreme, and I do mean extreme, crushes. Very confusing to me-and this gentleman never had an idea of this all-consuming fantasy. So, there's that to add to this very interesting discussion. Maybe its just all different for each individual. I don't know.

a reply to: YouSir

Indeed, it would! Hey, we're having a mixer over in another room - PM me for more info....

a reply to: Justso

I don't think that has anything to do with orientation....

I've been very attracted to gay guys also - but they were gay

And some of the best guys out there, too.... *sigh*

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: ketsuko
Don't really understand to any degree any of the answers. It all seems too pat and dry. I, personally, am a totally heterosexual woman. However, don't know or have ever understood why I had an extremely deep crush on a gay, extremely handsome, educated, perfectly groomed man I met through my husband. The gay gentleman, in every sense of the word, was in a very monogamous relationship with another almost equally attractive gentlemen. I loved my husband and had no intentions of straying, however it remains to this day one of my very few extreme, and I do mean extreme, crushes. Very confusing to me-and this gentleman never had an idea of this all-consuming fantasy. So, there's that to add to this very interesting discussion. Maybe its just all different for each individual. I don't know.

Perhaps he was a "safe" focus for your crush?

That has been my experience.

a reply to: stolencar18

Ok, I am a heterosexual male, but I have had a theory about this and I will thow it out there. I think that it has to do with our brain's hard wiring in early childhood. I think at that age, for whatever reason,some boys brains hardwired female, some girls brains hardwired male. So they grew up identifying with the opposite sex and being attracted to the same sex. Would explain why some gay males act feminine and some lesbians act masculine. Could be due to environmental factors or family environment. I do believe however, that there are gay men and lesbians who don't act respectively feminine and masculine. Some gay people don't fit the stereotype.

a reply to: NewzNose
"what makes her bi and not hetero? Why is hetero just a lifestyle?"
Because a hetero orientation makes one incapable of being attracted to the same sex.

Related to

a reply to: ketsuko
"Are you just making the assumption that someone who is hetero would be completely incapable of any and all sexual experimentation?"
Yes. sexual experimentation is bound by ones orientation , same way one doesn't find childeren or beasts sexualy attractive. (I am not talking of masturbation , which is independept of sexual attraction , its a physical act)


I never heard ofg Izzards before , but if he doesn't see certain clothes as woman's , then he isn't a cross dresser , women that were pants aren't.

a reply to: stolencar18

I'm gay, but not feminine at all. No one would ever know I'm gay by being in my presence. I always have to tell people.

First of all, no one comes out of the closet and suddenly becomes effeminate. Someone is effeminate or they're not. What CAN happen is they may try to cover it up to a degree, and when they come out, stop covering it up. Some gay people, usually people who have always been out, love to spread it on thick. They're already effeminate, but like to overdo it sometimes for fun, or to separate themselves from others and let everyone know they're gay. But....they were already effeminate.

There are plenty and plenty of gay men and women who you would never have a clue are gay. There are also straight men who you would SWEAR are gay. Yes, of course there are gay men pretending to be straight, but there ARE straight men who are incredibly feminine, same with women.

I once read an athroplogist's/psychologist's very good take on gender/gay/straight, and I will repeat it here, because I've always believed it.

Gender behavior is mostly a learned thing. There are some, but not that many inherent, hard wired, genetically present DNA or genes in males that make them what we think of as male: strong, tough, less emotional, etc., etc. Same goes for females. Cultures DEFINE masculinity and femininity to a large LARGE degree. Babies/children are born and raised in this culture and before they can even speak are completely indoctrinated in what it means to be male or female.

Other cultures of the past have had completely different versions of male/female. One culture had the women who rad most things; these women were strong, much more masculine than what we're used to, but that was that culture. That culture would have considered a lot of our feminine qualities as non-existent in their females.

I would love to see what a gay person in the 1500s or the 900s would look and sound like. It would probably be a lot different than what we see now. And this is because their social concepts of what defined a man or a woman were DIFFERENT than ours.

In the modern age, we are more polarized than ever about masculine and feminine stereotypes. When people are born, as I say, they pick up unconscious, conscious signals every which way about what a man or a woman is. Most of them simply follow the gender they are supposed to be.

You've heard it before, and I'll say it again. No one is really 100% straight or 100% gay. Now remember: I say this while defining myself as 100% gay. What I mean is no one is really born that way. The rampant bisexuality of ancient Rome and Greece clearly show us that if you're born into a society where it's accepted, more people simply become bisexual. So....we are born with an inherent bisexuality, and everyone is on a continuum. However, one of the things we learn quickly when we're born NOW in this culture is that that does not exist, and we quickly adopt that and follow along the lines of what we were born as: a straight man or a straight women.

For some reason, some people break from this - the reasons are far FAR too varied to talk about. But some people reject this automatic "training." Now the very act of rejection means all of these people COULD be bisexual, and had they been born in a different culture, they WOULD be. But at such a young age, and very unconsciously, they just assume that if it's not all the way one, then it's ALL the way the other.

I am convinced I could have been bisexual but am not, because I just assumed it was one or the other. Bisexual people are the ones who TRULY did not become indoctrinated by current social morays.

Anyway, so to answer the OPs question: what happens, is that some gay people become obsessed with stereotypical feminine or masculine roles. It's very evident in the way some men like to dress up in women's clothes, and it's always HEAPS of make-up, lipstick, long hair, high heeled shoes - ULTRA feminine, according to the current definition. Or....they go the opposite way: they dress up in leather, chains, ride motorcycles, etc., going ULTRA masculine, according to the current definition.

They are simultaneously rejecting society's definition of masculine/feminine, while also embracing it to the max.

Straight people tend to express both masculine and feminine traits to various degrees at various times. Some of the stereotypical gay people you talk about are trying to create (unconsciously mostly) a gender role for themselves.

Oh, and please....there is NO GAY GENE. There is NO proof whatso-frigging-ever. No one is born gay. But by the same token, no one is born straight.

originally posted by: Annee
I'm going to try to give you a serious answer.

Science has found sexuality is very complicated. It is not just male-female. It is all shades of gray.

Current knowledge is that sexual orientation begins early in gestation. Also, the brain is very much involved in telling you who you are.

We are all variations of human. The body and brain are like a program of who we are.

There are many variations of heterosexuals. You're just more used to them and don't think about how different they are from each other.

Annie, there are theories being advanced about sexuality/gender beginning in gestation, but there is NO proof. These remain unproven theories.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but the body and brain have SOME to do with who you are, SOME, not all, certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.