The soul, the self & I

a reply to: earthling42
When there is no one looking for something, it happens, it is seen.
What there is, is what there is but when there appears to be someone looking for something that isn't, it is easy to be confused - when all that isn't blows away - what is, is obvious.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Peeple
The present is arising as vision and sound - the one expressing as what is actually appearing.

That's exactly where you are wrong.

Can you see and hear? Is there a vision appearing where you are? This text is appearing, sound is appearing - all you will ever know is what is appearing presently.
Can you 'know' that which is 'knowing'?

The true self is the invisible never changing presence which is seeing the ever moving and changing presence - there is just presence - nothing can happen outside of presence - it is what there is - just this.
This is always this but this constantly appears different.

What about matter?

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Ponder this, you yourself had to 'find out' that which you preach in this and other threads.
This 'finding out' is the process of 'learning', it has nothing to do with 'to evolve' and 'becoming'.

Maybe the point of your post was missed entirely. Please expand on why you mentioned that 'it has nothing to do with 'to evolve' and 'becoming' - I did miss what this is pointing to.

What do you think needs finding out or learning?

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Peeple
The present is arising as vision and sound - the one expressing as what is actually appearing.

That's exactly where you are wrong.

Can you see and hear? Is there a vision appearing where you are? This text is appearing, sound is appearing - all you will ever know is what is appearing presently.
Can you 'know' that which is 'knowing'?

The true self is the invisible never changing presence which is seeing the ever moving and changing presence - there is just presence - nothing can happen outside of presence - it is what there is - just this.
This is always this but this constantly appears different.

What about matter?

Can you elaborate please? What do you mean by 'matter'?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You said there is only vision and sound, there is also matter. Like a car, vision sound and matter? Wood, stones, metals...

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain

You said there is only vision and sound, there is also matter. Like a car, vision sound and matter? Wood, stones, metals...

How do you know there are cars?
Have they appeared as vision and sound and sensation?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

It's how you answered peeple;

At the end of the evolving you hope you will feel better

while he wrote;

i want to learn and evolve so i need to see understand and accept the conflicts.

Of course peeple must correct me if i'm wrong, but what he wrote seems more like, 'I don't know, let me find out and learn, so i can understand'.

It hardly translates into what you assumed when you replied to him about him believing that he has to learn so he can evolve to become the best he can be.

I understand evolve in his sentence as unrolling, not in the sense of evolution.

See it as a peel, wrapped in, rolled in, involved.
Evolve therefore means, to unroll, to undo, to free oneself of ideas and concepts.

But one has to 'find out' (learn) in order to understand, without the light of understanding (insight) we remain in darkness.

originally posted by: earthling42
Of course peeple must correct me if i'm wrong, but what he wrote seems more like, 'I don't know, let me find out and learn, so i can understand'.

It hardly translates into what you assumed when you replied to him about him believing that he has to learn so he can evolve to become the best he can be.

It is not entirely clear what Peeple meant.
Is your assumed translation more correct? Who knows?

a reply to: earthling42

She. But besides that, exactly right. That's what i said earlier, that i had to let go of many things.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm sorry but with the question how i know there are cars, you disqualified yourself from any meaning full discussion...

We experience thoughts, sounds and sensations. The only reason we know there are cars and things is because of these senses.
Matter isn't separate from these senses, rather a product of it.

Evolution is an important aspect of living life, but can be a hindrance if we are attached to thinking were not being where we think we should be. If one truly see's that all there is, is this moment, then attachment to goals would end since past and future all illusions. But the paradox is that goals would not end. Just attachment to them will.

So I think that what itisnowagain is saying, is that it's impossible to become something more then what you are in this moment. It's impossible to become more evolved, since this is simply a judgement. It's not absolutely true. But learning is a useful tool as long as we know that things can't truly be different then they are in this moment. Then we stop judging ourselves as better or worse, and simply use these labels without believing them to be true if this makes sense. So plan all you want, dream all you want, but know that they can't exist outside of this moment.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm sorry but with the question how i know there are cars, you disqualified yourself from any meaning full discussion...

I too was disqualified from any meaningful dialogue by being called a liar. It would appear that not being a seeker and having no expectations is only for those who make YouTube videos or some such.
I understand the message Itisnowagain expounds. It is the same one that the likes of Tolle and Krishnamurti have written about. I recall that as Krishnamurti neared the end he said sadly that 'no one got it'. Forgetting of course his premise that at the heart of it there is no one and nothing to get.
I have my own experience of the reality of that which is but I make no claim on the veracity of others.

a reply to: midicon

I know the power of now and all this, i just find it wrong to promote it as itisnowagain does...
Besides i hope for a life full of goals i love dreaming and making plans.
It's maybe a personality question: whatever floats your boat...

originally posted by: midicon
I too was disqualified from any meaningful dialogue by being called a liar.

I didn't call you a liar. I simply said that I do not believe you.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: midicon

I know the power of now and all this, i just find it wrong to promote it as itisnowagain does...
Besides i hope for a life full of goals i love dreaming and making plans.
It's maybe a personality question: whatever floats your boat...

There is a reality behind the message that Itisnowagain expounds. I have experienced it. It took me a long time to get over it. It is something I never talk about but it is a truth that somehow comes through in little rhymes or comments I make. For me just now, it is enough that we each find our own path through life. It is all about balance, one foot in each world.
Regards midicon.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm sorry but with the question how i know there are cars, you disqualified yourself from any meaning full discussion...

How did I disqualify myself? Do you mean that you cannot answer the question so you blame me in someway?
How do you know there are cars? Do they appear as vision and sound and sensation?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: midicon
I too was disqualified from any meaningful dialogue by being called a liar.

I didn't call you a liar. I simply said that I do not believe you.

It is the same thing really. It doesn't matter, I take no offence and still hold your posts in high regard.
It's all good Itsnowagain.

Regards midicon.

a reply to: Peeple
How do you know there are cars??

Found something beautiful about Sophia, the mother of all souls.

But whereas, according to the Platonic philosophy, fallen souls still retain a remembrance of their lost home, this notion was preserved in another form in Gnostic circles. It was taught that the souls of the Pneumatici, having lost the remembrance of their heavenly derivation, required to become once more partakers of Gnosis, or knowledge of their own pneumatic essence, in order to make a return to the realm of light. In the impartation of this Gnosis consists the redemption brought and vouchsafed by Christ to pneumatic souls. But the various fortunes of such souls were wont to be contemplated in those of Sophia, and so it was taught that the Sophia also needed the redemption wrought by Christ, by whom she is delivered from her agnoia and her pathe, and will, at the end of the world's development, be again brought back to her long lost home, the Upper Pleroma, into which this mother will find an entrance along with all pneumatic souls her children, and there, in the heavenly bridal chamber, celebrate the marriage feast of eternity.

And here about pneumatic

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Peeple
How do you know there are cars??

If i would answer that the way i'd want to, i'd get banned for manners.
You really teach one patience... Senses. The answer is senses. But also because i don't magically broom ride...