Community rallies behind 6-year-old transgender girl

originally posted by: Tiamat384
a reply to: Freija
Ok well, I'm just going to go on record and say I do not believe in the idea of transgenders and believe the West has become too liberal in certain aspects, but how could this young girl understand such a thing? She is but a child.

Do you want to argue with mother nature on that? There are plenty of cases of intersex'd animals in the animal kingdom, and even some that change genders over the course of their lifespan.

Its all Xs and Ys and hormones really. Its pretty much the absolute most ignorant unscientific opinion you could have on the subject. And I don't mean that provocatively, not trying to put you down or anything. Only that it might benefit looking at it from another angle.

a reply to: Freija

Their are a few venomous posts about children with trans-gender decisions and not just in this thread about this social issue. Human expression of identity is simply not confined to these kinds of fearful perceptions. In fact I would go and consider it an excellent step towards Transhumanism.

The contemporary meaning of the term transhumanism was foreshadowed by one of the first professors of futurology, FM-2030, who taught "new concepts of the human" at The New School in the 1960s, when he began to identify people who adopt technologies, lifestyles and worldviews "transitional" to posthumanity as "transhuman".[4]

Transhumanism

Transhumanist Declaration

1.Humanity stands to be profoundly affected by science and technology in the future. We envision the possibility of broadening human potential by overcoming aging, cognitive shortcomings, involuntary suffering, and our confinement to planet Earth.

2.We believe that humanity’s potential is still mostly unrealized. There are possible scenarios that lead to wonderful and exceedingly worthwhile enhanced human conditions.

3.We recognize that humanity faces serious risks, especially from the misuse of new technologies. There are possible realistic scenarios that lead to the loss of most, or even all, of what we hold valuable. Some of these scenarios are drastic, others are subtle. Although all progress is change, not all change is progress.

4.Research effort needs to be invested into understanding these prospects. We need to carefully deliberate how best to reduce risks and expedite beneficial applications. We also need forums where people can constructively discuss what should be done, and a social order where responsible decisions can be implemented.

5.Reduction of existential risks, and development of means for the preservation of life and health, the alleviation of grave suffering, and the improvement of human foresight and wisdom should be pursued as urgent priorities, and heavily funded.

6.Policy making ought to be guided by responsible and inclusive moral vision, taking seriously both opportunities and risks, respecting autonomy and individual rights, and showing solidarity with and concern for the interests and dignity of all people around the globe. We must also consider our moral responsibilities towards generations that will exist in the future.

7.We advocate the well-being of all sentience, including humans, non-human animals, and any future artificial intellects, modified life forms, or other intelligences to which technological and scientific advance may give rise.
8.We favour allowing individuals wide personal choice over how they enable their lives. This includes use of techniques that may be developed to assist memory, concentration, and mental energy; life extension therapies; reproductive choice technologies; cryonics procedures; and many other possible human modification and enhancement technologies


Mission Statement

It's time for the rise of the machine mind and for us to cast off our physical bodies and enter the realm of A.I.

We ourselves will be the perfect artificial intelligence that is often conspired about.

a reply to: Freija

So, were you 20 before you knew if you were a boy or a girl? I'm guessing that by 6 years old, you had that pretty well figured out? Amiright?

I think that was kinda the point there... A 6 year old choosing their gender seems pretty freaking odd...

That being said, now that I've read more about it (stupid freaking ATS transgender people/advocates, making me question my long held beliefs, prejudices and morals) it seems that it's pretty likely people that are INDEED born a different way recognize it very young. This isn't tomboy stuff or a boy putting on his Mom's shoes. This isn't a phase, and the parents who actually take a child in and get help/understanding are BETTER parents. You can't slap this away.

ATS members, I really encourage you to look into this more.

People used to hate n*ggers, most of us got over that. Then we hated interracial relationships. Most of us got over that. Then we hated fags. Most of us are over that. Even if you're the annoying jackass that says the gays should be allowed to be as miserable as the rest of us, you're probably pretty much over that. It took some doing, but I finally got over all those things and feel like a better person for it. Now we have the transgender thing. It's taken some wake up calls for me to get over it, and I'm still not real comfortable around transgender people, and that's OK, but lets start recognizing the cycle here.

We're very resistant to change, especially when it's uncomfortable. Are you a decent human being though? As uncomfortable or mad at a certain group as we may be, if they aren't hurting anyone, and are just being who they are, as God intended, shouldn't we accept and love them like our neighbor? If you think it's terrible, that's fine, but let God judge, you're not worthy to do it for Him. Our job is to love our neighbors.

Can a little kid be transgender? Well, yeah. It's a very different thing than a boy playing with his sister's Barbies and a girl playing with G.I. Joe. it's in the brain, it's not a choice, it's a thing. It's not a preference. It's rude to compare it to a disability, but think about some. There may be some people (and I think there are certainly a few) doing this for attention, but the majority just want to be normal. Would you want to be the kid or parent of the kid that's transgender? No, but if you're a good parent you do the research, go to the doctors, and you accept who your kid is. That takes some bravery.

So let's at least try to not be assholes to the little kid that's certainly been vetted by medical professionals and doesn't deserve our knee jerk judgement.

a reply to: Freija

I'm quoting no wings of no one, but a doctor who is treating transgenders, regretful transgenders that is, not one who hates them and send them to hell. And I quote a transgender who probably knows what she's talking about.
It should at least plant a little doubt in some's mind and a little curiosity.
Because maybe, just MAYBE the transgender's life is not as happy and as joyful as some want to make it look.

Allowing a child to transition is often a last ditch effort to bring a child some relief and happiness. What is so wrong about that?

Because there is a risk to even exacerbate the problem and to never bring the relief and happiness. So why not take the time and try to treat that child until he grows up and really understand the problem, instead of rolling with it and making such a dramatic change?
Funny you never address the number of transgenders who regrets it or commit suicide, or the high percent of mental illness most have. Is not that a risk to also take in account when we talk about a 6 y/o? I guess not.
Let's change them all and we'll sort them out after.

This is more about the parents than it is the kid.
It's about their mental illness and the societal trend of embracing this mental illness. They are guilty of deciding this for a depressed and confused young boy whose problem is probably rooted in some kind of abuse experienced at home or at school. This is only going to complicate things for the kid, not improve his life.

a reply to: Tindalos2013

'Transhumanism' ... Haha, Wow.

originally posted by: Tiamat384
I'm unsure how ignorant you really are,

Wait. You're calling ME ignorant? Haha! I am not calling anyone "ignorant". There are a lot of strong opinions based on upbringing, social traditions and quite frankly, a lack of information and facts on this subject. For those that are willing to open their minds and learn, stay tuned. If you wish to speak from personal opinion, political rhetoric, or religious fundamentalism, even if misguided, that is entirely your right but as an advocate for trans issues, don't be upset if I offer counter commentary.

I agree, a 6 year old knows not what its sexuality is and ultimately that is what transgenderism is about, though in my opinion again it does not exist as you are what you are born. If you think you're otherwise you are homosexual (something I do not rage against).

Being transgender or having gender dysphoria is not sexuality. It has zip to do with homosexuality or who you are attracted to or want to sleep with. Six year olds have no concept of this but they do have their own ingrained sense of whether they are a boy or a girl. Think back to your childhood. Weren't you sure you were a boy long before you had any thoughts of a sexual nature or became aware you were attracted to girls? This indicates a separation of your gender and your sexuality. They are not the same thing.

But what disturbs me more than anything, is that this is accepted by society. She is a child. Sorry he? Because I'm confused honestly.

Understandably you are confused. It doesn't seem to make sense or seem possible that a girl's psyche and personality could somehow end up in the body of a boy. It is not what we are taught and not what we learned from our parents, family and the world around us. Chances are there was absolutely nothing these parents could do except face the agonizing choice of forcing their child into an unhappy and miserable existence as a boy this child felt was completely opposite of who they were or to allow them to live and be known as a little girl. Decisions like this aren't made on a whim or willy nilly and are very difficult. As a parent, you want to do what is best for your child even if it flies in the face of convention and parents don't make these tough decisions on their own without the help of doctors, psychiatrists, therapists and support groups. You say this is "accepted" by society but as you can see by the comments in any transgender thread here, "society" isn't as accepting as you might think.

When you say no to everything as a society or government, that is wrong. We have rights. But equally when you just let everything go, then people go and do these things. Maybe I want to be a hawk. Who knows, maybe one day with genetic engineering it'll be possible. I'm going to say this again, because regardless of what else I've typed up, this is my main point: She is but a CHILD.

Yes, she is a child. Should we not be compassionate and understanding and do whatever we can to make her life tolerable and happy? I would be curious what your approach would be if your child was transgender?

a reply to: Freija
Yes, your reply to that person seemed a tad ignorant. Also my confusion is to whether or not she's a boy or a girl and which she or he started as. My mind is rather very open. I just realize what this all is, frankly right now, a waste of my time.

a reply to: boncho
Except that human beings aren't designed to change in that way. So no I'm not questioning or arguing with nature. Transgenders however certainly are. It might benefit if we don't play god.

a reply to: Domo1

This isn't a phase, and the parents who actually take a child in and get help/understanding are BETTER parents. You can't slap this away.

Please show me one quote from the parents . Just one . And please dont hide behind the excuse that they are trying to protect the child . Its on the MSM . Like i said , one quote from the parents . This has been hijacked by the GLBGTABC community . Oh they are local people . Like i said before . CRAP . Just when will this PC rubbish stop . I used to think that some of Subs posts were a little over the top . But i am a convert .

a reply to: Tiamat384

Text Transgenders however certainly are. It might benefit if we don't play god.

Not at six freeking years old . God has nothing to do with it , but the MSM has now . Kids life destroyed for an article .

a reply to: hutch622
You should know what I mean...why are you bring religion into this...because I said nothing of religion. In particular Christianity...But no children should be played with like this. The parents were irresponsible. I think, at least, this should first be available at adulthood, or age of 17 with parental consent. This simply awful. 41% is a high rate of suicide, even if untrue there is certainly a higher rate of suicide than among non-trans. Hope s/he isn't one of them.

The private owners of Children’s Lighthouse daycare in Katy, Texas have found themselves in the public eye after firing two employees who voiced concern that the school was allowing a 6-year-old transgender student to express their gender identity, reports Fox 26. The controversy began when the parents of the transgender student asked that their child, who had been assigned female gender at birth, now be treated as a male and referred to with a new name. The school immediately moved to accommodate the request of the parents – who happen to be a same-sex couple – and removed two employees who disagreed

source

from what i can find, it seems more like the sex change happened because the parents said so.
anxiety and depression can be caused maybe by having same sex parents?
just food for thought, i mean why is the first step to say the child has a problem?
Things sound...fuzzy to me.
Anybody have some more background info on the kid and his behavior before the transition?

a reply to: Domo1
Outstanding post, Domo1. Keep it up and I'm going to have to fly up there and take YOU out for dinner!

originally posted by: IridiumFlareMadness
This is more about the parents than it is the kid.
It's about their mental illness and the societal trend of embracing this mental illness. They are guilty of deciding this for a depressed and confused young boy whose problem is probably rooted in some kind of abuse experienced at home or at school. This is only going to complicate things for the kid, not improve his life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Flare. Your thinking on these matters, ascribing them to some sort of trauma or abuse is quite common but unfortunately is not based on facts and research nor from the histories or testimonies from transgender people. Being transgender itself is traumatic and often life threatening.

Research and science strongly points the basic causes of being trans as biological. A whole host of mixed XX and XY genetic conditions exist as well as anatomical intersex conditions that are somewhat common. As babies are born with ambiguous or mixed genitalia, why is it so hard to imagine they cannot also be born with a predisposition for being a gender that is incongruent with their anatomy? I prefer to avoid the trope "a girls brain in a boy's body" but that is one way to think of it on a simplistic level.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: hutch622
I call bull#e . Really 6 years old . Get back to me when HE is 20 .

So, were you 20 before you knew if you were a boy or a girl? I'm guessing that by 6 years old, you had that pretty well figured out? Amiright?

I thought I was a monkey after visiting the zoo once. Thank god my parents didn't decide to reassign my species.

I mean I know best at 6 right?

originally posted by: laminatedsoul

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: hutch622
I call bull#e . Really 6 years old . Get back to me when HE is 20 .

So, were you 20 before you knew if you were a boy or a girl? I'm guessing that by 6 years old, you had that pretty well figured out? Amiright?

I thought I was a monkey after visiting the zoo once. Thank god my parents didn't decide to reassign my species.

I'm a monkey lesbian trapped in a human male body. I knew this after my first trip to the zoo at 6 years old.

Six years old and she knows her own body ... I've heard that kind of reasoning before, from pedophiles!!

Honestly some of you people are too stupid for words!

*Peeks in during bout of insomnia, unable to sleep*

Nvm, the world has gone insane, as usual. Good luck with this!

Back to bed......

originally posted by: WhiteHat
Because there is a risk to even exacerbate the problem and to never bring the relief and happiness. So why not take the time and try to treat that child until he grows up and really understand the problem, instead of rolling with it and making such a dramatic change?
Funny you never address the number of transgenders who regrets it or commit suicide, or the high percent of mental illness most have. Is not that a risk to also take in account when we talk about a 6 y/o? I guess not.
Let's change them all and we'll sort them out after.

What you may not be aware of regarding cases of "regret"... yes, it does happen and when it does, the anti-trans folks glorify and exaggerate it. When patients lie and circumvent the extensive diagnostic and evaluative processes or when other underlying pathologies that may manifest themselves as gender dysphoria slip through the cracks, or if surgical outcomes are unsuccessful, of course there are a few unhappy folks. This doctor in your linked article is one of them and heavily biased and the conservative right-wing website, The Federalist, a welcoming platform for views not taken by the majority of the medical and scientific communities.

You say "So why not take the time and try to treat that child until he grows up and really understand the problem". What sort of treatment do you propose having obviously never been exposed to transgender children, what they're like or what their problems are? Allowing a young child to transition may have risks but most parents aren't going to do this except with the guidance and advice of medical professionals after exhaustive evaluation and counseling. If a child truly is gender dysphoric, then the risks are much higher not allowing them to socially transition and forcing them into a role and identity that is wrong for them.

We're talking about a 6 year old here. If she changes her mind at 10 and wants to be a boy as some children do, what real harm has been done? If she doesn't change her mind, standard protocols are to administer puberty blocking drugs to prevent the development of male secondary sex characteristics. These can be given for several years, cause no permanent changes and are fully reversible. If withdrawn, puberty will proceed as it normally would have. This also gives a child more time to mature and better grasp the situation. Most of these kids want nothing else but to be normal boys or girls so if you've got a male child that socially transitioned at 6, went on puberty blockers and is now 15, you can pretty much bet they've been begging to start taking estrogen to develop breasts and hips, etc., like all the other girls and when 18 (or slightly younger in some cases) have sex reassignment surgery. These kids don't have regret, ever, and as adults live happy, healthy and productive lives.

Take this same 10 or 11 year old transgender child, force him/her to live a life totally unsuited to their psyche and personality, deny medical care and you're going to end up with a dead child. Ask any parent of a trans kid and they fear even their 6 year olds are going to off themselves. Yes, 41% suicide rate. It is abysmal and tragic.

Stop also a minute to think of adult transgender people. Looking at the negative or unpleasant comments in this thread alone, never mind all the other trans posts here and the crazy number of stars they get, wouldn't that alone make you feel hated and sub-human? It is pathetic that people are so lacking in compassion and understanding.