The Hobbyist Debunker Mick West

a reply to: mrthumpy
grateful for all the contrail info for sure, but the story doesn't end there. It's just one chapter. A short one at that.

originally posted by: OveRcuRrEnteD
a reply to: mrthumpy
grateful for all the contrail info for sure, but the story doesn't end there. It's just one chapter. A short one at that.

And just how does that relate to what I posted?

originally posted by: OveRcuRrEnteD
a reply to: network dude
You call it a gift. I call it blinders. But hey, if you like the narrow little world you live in, enjoy it!

When the scientists who are in charge of geo-engineering start talking about things they ARE doing instead of things they PLAN to IF there is no alternative, I'll be concerned about it, but while they are NOT actively doing these projects, Based on all information that is peer reviewed, I feel pretty safe in knowing that those lines in the sky are still just contrails.

(actually, even if/when they start SRM, I won't be looking for any visible proof, as all the information I have says we won't see it anyway.)

dbl post

originally posted by: OveRcuRrEnteD
It only took me a short time to come across this(note 1.4 in the intro) and this . There is a wealth of information on and linked throughout the site. But if you don't have time, I get it...

Those relate to weather modification. You do know that contrails and weather modification have nothing in common right?
Just asking, since many believers seem to conflate the 2 thinking that weather modification looks like contrails.

Weather modification has been going on for a long long time, and is no secret.

www.weathermodification.com...

There's the how where and why of it.

You have to keep in mind that the chemtrail nonsense started in the end of the 90s and claimed that the chemtrails contained chemicals to kill off al humanity, or to control our minds, or to make us sick, something along those lines.

Some people still seem to think so (see 'the great culling'), much to the chagrin of people like M. Murphy and R. Peterson, who want nothing to do with the claim that 'the great culling' is in any way a follow-up or otherwise related to their own work (I always love infights) see here.

Anyway, so 'chemtrails' has evolved and kindof taken on whatever meaning the particular pusher wants it to have. There's no consensus whatsoever, except that everyone points at those long lines in the sky and claims that we should look up to see the 'proof' right in our faces. 'Proof of what?' you then ask, and that's when you should be prepared for being called a shill and a troll..lol.

Most people realize that the old canard that chemtrails are supposed to kill us all off is untenable in the face of the growth of life expectancy and life quality in general, so they've moved on to claim that chemtrails are geoengineering. After all, there are a bunch of scientists talking about geoengineering, and now all the activists have to do is to claim that it's already happening in a clandestine way without our approval, and that we should be really upset about that. Of course they're still pointing at persisting contrails as 'proof' of their claim.

The one thing a chemtrail believer will NEVER do is actually look at the science involved with contrails. The moment they realize that contrails can and do persist, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, so there's a lot to be gained by claiming that those who promote actual contrail science are paid shills, agents of the devil/the government or something along those lines.

One of the latest efforts is trying to drag in the weather modification business to sortof gain some credence. After all, weather modification is actually happening, it involves chemicals and planes, and as long as people don't actually know what weather modification really is, on what scale it happens and why it happens, it can be passed off as chemtrails. You point at a persisting contrail and claim that that's a chemtrail as a result of weather modification. See how the confusion creeps in here? It works for chemmies, hopefully not for you.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h Mick West is a joke...he claimed that JFK did not have 4.3 billion dollars in silver backed treasury notes printed and he has actually touted that the Federal Reserve Bank is not privately owned. He is a shill from the word "go". I wouldn't take anything he has to say as "truth".

originally posted by: dale8333
a reply to: tsurfer2000h Mick West is a joke...he claimed that JFK did not have 4.3 billion dollars in silver backed treasury notes printed and he has actually touted that the Federal Reserve Bank is not privately owned. He is a shill from the word "go". I wouldn't take anything he has to say as "truth".

If you find anything he has to say about contrails/chemtrails to be in error, feel free to point it out and correct it.

But it's not just about what Mick West has to say. He's just another guy who debunks chemtrails, as a hobby. Even if you can prove him wrong in some shape or form, that doesn't mean that chemtrails are true.

What you really have to do is to provide evidence for chemtrails. Now that would be really impressive.

At the risk of sounding cynical, I'm not going to hold my breath

a reply to: dale8333

I (Uncinus) am Mick West.

I would not ask anyone to take what I say as truth. In fact I encourage people to check what I say for themselves. I also am strongly opposed to things that are factually incorrect. So if you think I've said something that is wrong, then you should quote what I said and where I said it, and I shall either retract it or back it up. So feel free to point out exactly what I said that was incorrect.

While I've been an ATS member for a long time, I've not posted here recently, as the debunkings tend to get lost in the middle of long thread.

And on the word "debunking", I specifically use it in the sense of "removing the bunk" from a subject. Debunking, for me, does not mean setting out to prove a particular theory to be false. It means looking at the individual claims of evidence, and seeing if they hold up to scrutiny.

a reply to: payt69 I am not even going to spend the energy telling you how the real world works instead of the tiny bubble that you live in. I operate on a higher plane of consciousness than you and about 99 percent of the people that reside in USA.INC....simply isn't worth my time. I know that Mick West is full of # and a disinformation shill and that's good enough for me. Even if everyone woke up as to what is going on? It wouldn't make a difference...they have the pieces put in place and they have weapons systems developed by DARPA that could shut down any rebellion of the serfs. My suggestion to you is to enjoy the good times while you can because they are going to come to an abrupt end. This country is going to experience hunger that will make the Great Depression seem like a mother's kiss in comparison....etch that in stone.

originally posted by: dale8333
I operate on a higher plane of consciousness than you and about 99 percent of the people that reside in USA

Wow, I really feel privileged to be able to read your words. You truly have separated yourself from the rest of us here. Why, by the facts alone that you have offered to back up your words, I guess we should all thank you and perhaps bow at your feet.

All Hail Dale!

a reply to: Uncinus

Mick, based on the recent (sort of) claims that high bypass engines CANNOT cause contrails except in super rare conditions, shouldn't this be a perfect opportunity to make a wager with the big dogs about testing the trails in flight? I think it would be safe to say they would all be "busy" that day, but making the wager that Looser pays for the flight and testing would be interesting if made publicly. It would at least expose Wiggington for what he is, and Carnicon as well. I believe a go-fund-me kind of thing could make the $ available.

After all, with so many trails in the sky this time of year, finding the bad ones (the ones that last longer than a few minutes) should be really easy.

a reply to: network dude

Testing trails is hard, and is generally done wth cooperation of the plane leaving the contrail. There's no way an amature effort is going to get any useful result, although I'd be happy to see people try. But it's really kind of besides the point, the chemtrail believers like Dane Wigington claim to have 100% undeniable proof, when in fact they have nothing of the kind. The high bypass claim is a good example. It makes absolutely no sense at all from a physic point of view. It's a bizarre kind of cherry-picking of science and semantics that demonstrates only a total misunderstanding of the science of contrail formation.

Trails have been tested many times by actual scientists. Generally though they are just studying the microphysics of ice crystal formation. www.nasa.gov...

I'm a debunker, I focus on actual claims of evidence. If all their claims of evidence so far are bogus, then what reason is there to go sample some trails?

a reply to: network dude It wouldn't matter what I post...people have their minds made up and they shan't be swayed because they are "dug in". The big picture is obviously plain to me and it does not bode well for any of us that reside here in USA.INC.

a reply to: Uncinus

I would think that showing believers that commercial planes are leaving persistent trails would be enough, but that's not the case. Testing a trail in flight would sure close down that argument, and coupled with the claim that it MUST be a chemtrail since it persisted, one would think that should end the whole discussion right there.

But maybe this whole thing is meant to exist in the spirit of Capitalism. Everyone has a right to make money, even if it's by taking it from gullible people.

Have a great day Mick.

originally posted by: dale8333
a reply to: payt69 I am not even going to spend the energy telling you how the real world works instead of the tiny bubble that you live in. I operate on a higher plane of consciousness than you and about 99 percent of the people that reside in USA.

I'm not exactly new to your line of thinking though. I used to listen to people like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, and even once attended a lecture by David Icke (after having viewed all his online lectures, some of which are 6 hours and over). I've been around the block, so to speak, and know exactly how that line of thinking works.

To me, coming out of all that, it feels like I've been in a bubble in retrospect. It's been a slow and step by step process, but once you see the pattern with all this conspiracy thinking, pretty much the whole deal is doomed to collapse. It's been a breath of fresh air for me.

Actually it was the chemtrails hoax that helped wake me up. People like Rense, Icke and Jones are staunch believers, but I never really saw the evidence. Actually to me chemtrails were always the dumbest aspect of conspiracy thinking, and really easy to debunk. So that made me think: 'If this is so easy to debunk then what does that tell me about the rest of the stuff they're claiming?'.

Another thing that helped was the sillyness surrounding the 'pentagon missile' and stuff like the 'no plane theory'. I just happen to know a bit of aviation, and it occurred to me that whenever I was able to check things out for myself, rabbithole-theories never made sense in the light of reality.

simply isn't worth my time. I know that Mick West is full of # and a disinformation shill and that's good enough for me.

I know it is That's the problem.

Even if everyone woke up as to what is going on? It wouldn't make a difference...they have the pieces put in place and they have weapons systems developed by DARPA that could shut down any rebellion of the serfs. My suggestion to you is to enjoy the good times while you can because they are going to come to an abrupt end. This country is going to experience hunger that will make the Great Depression seem like a mother's kiss in comparison....etch that in stone.

Good thing I don't live in the USA then..lol

a reply to: payt69 I am not an Alex Jones fan and I don't know who Rense or Icke is. I went back through the entire history of this country and found that the banking oligarchs that ran Europe had always been after control of our monetary system and they finally got it for good with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. There were other extremely important dates...like the real reason the War of 1812 was fought, the real reason for the Civil War, the Act of 1871, the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of 1933 of USA.INC after the manufactured Great Depression of 1929 and the significance of the birth certificate that is created on bond paper and the gold confiscation, the murder of JFK, the taking us off of the gold standard in in 1971, etc, etc......putting the pieces together wasn't that hard. The origins of the League of Nations that led to the U.N, Council On Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission and British Institute For International Affairs and how they all connect to the Committee of 300 and the Bilderburg Group. How every single war since the revolutionary war was contrived and manipulated by a small group of moneychangers that always funded both sides. Couldn't have been a Nazi Germany or a Bolshevik Revolution without Wall Street and the Rothschild funded banksters...yeah, I have my pulse on how we got to this place and I doubt seriously that you could even wrap your mind around it. You think it's a coincidence that every country is teetering on insolvency? Guess again....

a reply to: dale8333

Which group does the 'spraying'?

originally posted by: dale8333
a reply to: payt69 I am not an Alex Jones fan and I don't know who Rense or Icke is. I went back through the entire history of this country and found that the banking oligarchs that ran Europe had always been after control of our monetary system and they finally got it for good with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. There were other extremely important dates...like the real reason the War of 1812 was fought, the real reason for the Civil War, the Act of 1871, the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of 1933 of USA.INC after the manufactured Great Depression of 1929 and the significance of the birth certificate that is created on bond paper and the gold confiscation, the murder of JFK, the taking us off of the gold standard in in 1971, etc, etc......putting the pieces together wasn't that hard. The origins of the League of Nations that led to the U.N, Council On Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission and British Institute For International Affairs and how they all connect to the Committee of 300 and the Bilderburg Group. How every single war since the revolutionary war was contrived and manipulated by a small group of moneychangers that always funded both sides. Couldn't have been a Nazi Germany or a Bolshevik Revolution without Wall Street and the Rothschild funded banksters...yeah, I have my pulse on how we got to this place and I doubt seriously that you could even wrap your mind around it. You think it's a coincidence that every country is teetering on insolvency? Guess again....

Wow its like you distilled every last bit of ATS crazy and downed it in one.
That said I think you forgot to mention aliens, there should definitely be aliens.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation NASA and the Air Force is behind the chemtrailing. One single jet can cover 250 square miles. They regularly rotate pilots from one base to the next so that they don't get too "cozy" with the families of other pilots. Since this program falls under "National Defense" they are not allowed to speak of what they are doing. Every jet has a detonation button so if a pilot was to suddenly go "rogue" and land someplace to reveal what they are doing or veer off course, they would be blown out of the sky. They get paid a lot of money to do this but they take great risks.

a reply to: dale8333

Not that I believe you, but how do you 'know' this?