Muslim speaking out!

a reply to: Kapusta

Hi OP, thanks for your post and sorry it's all taking it's toll on you. For what it's worth I can't stand this generalisation and blaming of all Muslims for the actions of extremists.

I would love to hear your take on this article, although I acknowledge it is very long so no worries if you don't have time but perhaps you've seen it before...

www.theatlantic.com...

Here's my problem. If the non extremist Muslims outnumber the terrorist extremist Muslims so much, why are the terrorists so successful? The only real answer is cowardice. Is easy to whine about people associating you with them, is easy to throw out a few choice words against extremism, but the truth is, the best weapon against these extremists would be for all these good Muslims to pull the rug out from under them.

These extremists need you good Muslims for cover, they'll keep pushing til there's no choice left but to defend ourselves indiscriminately. When that happens you all are screwed. If you really want things to change, as it's your community they need for cover, and you they need to help them succeed, it's up to you to stop them.

You all sit around do nothing but complain, and bitch at people for being upset about extremists, but do not a damn thing to truly end the extremists threat, when they're putting you all in danger, and you enable them. You are the best chance we have to end this, but instead of standing up and fixing this, you all complain and wait around to get caught in the crossfire. You die like cows being lead to the slaughter rather than dying like wolves defending their den.

End this, all you massively majority non extremist Muslims in the Muslim community have the power, more so that all the governments of the world combined.

Stop just letting them kill you along with us. Die fighting, and soon you'll all stop dying at all. Clean up your damn communities cause we can't do it for you.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Here's my problem. If the non extremist Muslims outnumber the terrorist extremist Muslims so much, why are the terrorists so successful? The only real answer is cowardice. Is easy to whine about people associating you with them, is easy to throw out a few choice words against extremism, but the truth is, the best weapon against these extremists would be for all these good Muslims to pull the rug out from under them. These extremists need you good Muslims for cover, they'll keep pushing til there's no choice left but to defend ourselves indiscriminately. When that happens you all are screwed. If you really want things to change, as it's your community they need for cover, and you they need to help them succeed, it's up to you to stop them. You all sit around do nothing but complain, and bitch at people for being upset about extremists, but do not a damn thing to truly end the extremists threat, when they're putting you all in danger, and you enable them. You are the best chance we have to end this, but instead of standing up and fixing this, you all complain and wait around to get caught in the crossfire. You die like lame horses waiting to die rather than dying like wolves defending their den.

End this, all you massively majority non extremist Muslims in the Muslim community have the power, more so that all the governments of the world combined.

Stop just letting them kill you along with us. Die fighting, and soon you'll all stop dying at all. Clean up your damn communities cause we can't do it for you.

What are you talking about?


Muslims are the biggest victims of these savages

Didn’t you know that?


Who you think the Kurds are

They are Muslims


Who do you think the Syrians fighting ISIS is

They are Muslims


And the Iraqis

Iranians etc...

Afghanistan MUSILIMS are fighting and dying against the Taliban


These terrorist are criminals and killers brainwashed in a cultic fashion.


The average Muslim is as ordinary as anyone and would quickly be murdered if they went too far and got too close to these killers condemning them

I wouldn’t call that cowardice


When are the white people going to go to the Klan meetings and stop them

That said there still are numerous Muslims who have from the very start condemned these killers vehemently


If you don’t know that it’s because the media doesn’t advertise that


You want to be mad at somebody for opening this Pandora’s Box of violence be mad at George Bush and Dick Cheney

Before they invaded Iraq there wasn’t any ISIS

a reply to: Willtell

When the Klan becomes a real threat again I might. Is a ridiculous comparison. The reason the Klan is basically a laughing stock today is cause the majority decided they are and the Klan can't do a damn thing about it. The majority being white. If most whites weren't anti-klan, there'd still be blacks being burned and hanged everywhere.

Hell I was married to a black woman, the clan wants to kill my (you know the word) loving ass even more than any "blacky" damn race traitor that I am. So yeah the Klan ever gains any real prominence, I would not be passive about it.

Oh, and it's precisely the normal Muslims that NEED to do something. Even if it's as simple as being active watchers and informers that keep an eye out. Even if it's as simple as spreading amongst their communities intolerance towards these action, regardless of the risk of retaliation for it.

I understand these are regular people trying to keep their heads down, minding their own business and just survive to see tomorrow. But the situation is too big for that. Doing that might help keep you alive til tomorrow, but ten of your friends and your future children are dying for it. This is no longer a situation where a normal person can just keep their head down. Is time for your whole community to wake up, take the short term losses and win the war, cause the long term losses are too great.

If the normal Muslims outnumber the abnormal Muslms, why are they fleeing and becoming refugees? SHouldnt they have the sentiment and the numbers to stay and fight in their homeland to take it back from these dastardly abnormals??

Rhetorical question.

a reply to: WeRpeons

If I was still a practicing Catholic and my religion was responsible for these barbaric killings, you better believe I would drop that belief like a bad habit! There's nothing to justify a particular belief if their members engage in violence and killings. Just because you don't participate in the violence, you're still considered part of that religious organization.

I agree with what you said here very strongly.

I was raised in a very large, Heinz 57, multi-religious, home. Because my family is so large and integrated, as I child my Sundays meant spending all day on Sunday in church. Back then the elders took their responsibilities of religious indoctrination of the children, very seriously, so we had to to attend all the Sunday services.

As a child I had no trouble with any of my family's different religions and I believed what I was taught to believe. I tried to embrace each of the religions, but over the years, I found that there is no God in religion. Religion is made by man, for man, to worship man. God is placed so far on the back burner that you couldn't reach him if you tried, and that is exactly what all those self-proclaimed man gods, want the people to believe. Those mystical messengers, chosen by God as a buffer, to keep you lowly heathens and stupid sinners away from him. So your only hope to get to God is through them, the mighty man God. When I saw what was going on in God's name, it angered me and sickened me, and I have no regrets about turning my back and walking away from everyone of them.

I don't expect others to think like me, or to do what I do. I don't care what others think or who they worship. I just ask for the same rights, and the same respect that others demand for themselves. People don't choose the families they are born into. They can however choose what to believe, who to worship and who to support, both actively and passively.

a reply to: Advantage

Maybe if the West and the Saudi's hadn't armed the extremists the "normals" would have had a chance. Daesh has military grade weaponry, far superior mobility. Your average Syrian, Afghani, Iraqi don't have access to weapons that can even dent Daesh. Of course there's the Iraqi, Afghani, Syrian armies that fight them which for some reason none of you will acknowledge. Many innocent Muslims without military weaponry tried to fight them too as they rolled through, guess what happened? They were slaughtered and their children were slaughtered. Plus now there is not enough food and water for people either, drought and infrastructure destruction as well as Assad's cruelty has all factored into a situation that can't be turned around, in order to survive... they have to flee.

a reply to: Puppylove
Some things will never make sense because it goes beyond what the mind is capable of. Indoctrination and mind control is a powerfully scary thing, and religion is the worse. Trying to sit back and rationally explain how people that choose to believe a certain way because of their religious indoctrination, can be mind boggling.

It is so hard not to be judgmental when you can't relate or understand a thing. When it goes so far past what you mind holds as acceptable.

What do you say to a woman that lives in the same house with a man as his wife, she cooks for him, cleans and cares for him, more as a slave than a wife, and she feels it part of her duty as his wife to allow him to beat her, when he chooses? How do you explain it is a criminal act, when she thinks as her husband, and the man of the house, it is his right to rape his own children, when he so desires? This particular woman was not of the Islamic faith, and it doesn't matter.

When a person is so committed to a religious belief that all commonsense and self worth is replaced with the love of an idea, there is little hope of either of you being able to understand the other. The best we can hope for is mutual respect and the willingness of each to let the other live in peace. However, it becomes extremely problematic when laws are being broken in the name of religion. At that point lines have to be drawn.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Heck, I was a church alter boy for 5 years in the catholic church and attended a Catholic private school. Most people are surprised I walked away from my religion. During that time I saw a lot of things in my religious beliefs that conflicted with my personal and inner belief of a loving God. I seriously questioned why a God would create religious doctrines that could easily be interpreted differently and ultimately divide the masses.

There are many friends of mine who were also fellow church alter boys who are no longer practicing Catholics. I found out most recognized the same hypocrisy. If religion is sanctioned by God, it sure goes against the basis of love and peace for your fellow man. It clearly has created a lot of division, killings, and wars over the years, not to mention its ability to control and feed a persons mind and judge those who don't follow their teachings.

Agreed

I am a Christian and I tolerate others as they tolerate me and my beliefs. Why can't the Muslims get along in their own religion. Why can they not tolerate other beliefs without penalty?a reply to: Kapusta

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Look back to the 1700's and the Barbary pirates leading up to the First Barbary War. It didnt stop 800 years ago.

In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.

www.cyberistan.org...

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and

have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

This charter of privileges has been honored and faithfully applied by Muslims throughout the centuries in all lands they ruled

Don’t people wonder why ISIS comes across Christians in their savage conquering, in Muslim lands.

In the Time of the Prophet, and this is according to the Quran, Christians and Jews were treated very good.

And most Islamic history records that as the case

This 7th century document is something that could be written today and it would reflect a very modern view of religious tolerance and Muhammad spoke these words over 1400 years ago
Commanding the Muslims to love and respect Christians and respect their rights

a reply to: Willtell

And most Islamic history records that as the case

Except for a couple of hundred years when what is known as the Crusades happened.

The GREAT Muslim Cleric and Sufi master of the 13th century Jalal ad-din Rumi is one of our greatest poets and human beings period.

Muslims and all people can be proud that he called himself a true Muslim( one of peace)

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī (Persian: جلال‌الدین محمد رومی‎‎), also known as Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhī (جلالالدین محمد بلخى), Mawlānā/Mevlânâ (مولانا, "our master"), Mevlevî/Mawlawī (مولوی, "my master"), and more popularly simply as Rumi (1207 – 17 December 1273), was a 13th-century Persian[1][8] poet, jurist, Islamic scholar, theologian, and Sufi mystic.[9] Rumi's influence transcends national borders and ethnic divisions: Iranians, Tajiks, Turks, Greeks, Pashtuns, other Central Asian Muslims, and the Muslims of South Asia have greatly appreciated his spiritual legacy for the past seven centuries.[10] His poems have been widely translated into many of the world's languages and transposed into various formats. Rumi has been described as the "most popular poet"[11] and the "best selling poet" in the United States.[12][13]

en.wikipedia.org...

Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
Suddenly the drunken sweetheart appeared out of my door.
She drank a cup of ruby wine and sat by my side.
Seeing and holding the lockets of her hair
My face became all eyes, and my eyes all hands.

With the Beloved's water of life, no illness remains
When your chest is free of your limiting ego,
Then you will see the ageless Beloved.
You can not see yourself without a mirror;
Look at the Beloved, He is the brightest mirror.

O Marvel! a garden amidst the flames. My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles and a convent for Christian monks,
and a temple for idols and the pilgrim's Kaa'ba,
and the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran.
I follow the religion of Love: whatever way Love's camels take,
that is my religion and my faith.

The religion of Love is different from all religions
For lovers, religion and denomination is God alone.

a reply to: Kali74

There is a little problem with this, namely protection and weapons in exchange for the petro dollar.
Any new chosen president will not be able to simply negate this agreement between the US and the gulf states.

Saddam found out the hard way that the US honours his part of the deal after Iraq invaded Kuwait.
This may also apply to Libya and Syria, Fatwas were spoken against both leaders by Qaradawi.
What have they in common? they are both shiites and people were killed during protests.
Funny, the same happened in the gulf states yet nobody said anything about it or condemned it.

Despite the cruel atrocities that were committed against people in Syria and Iraq, IS seems to have great support, especially within the gulf states, Egypt and the US.

Source The independent.

Many muslims born and raised within Europe were radical enough to join IS, fight for the caliphate and what it stands for.
Russia tops the list with the number of european muslims who went to Syria, 2 France, 3 the UK, 4 Germany, 5 Belgium.
And there is the social media on which we can read reactions of muslims, cheering just like back in 2001 when the aircrafts flew into the WTC.
There seems to be a deep hate towards Europe, and the US, this was so in the nineties and is the case today.
If Europe does not react to this extremism we allow it to grow and become even more dangerous, 9/11 and all the attacks after that are proof of that.

So Europe can't and won't be passive, especially not after;
Brussel.
Charly hebdo.
Copenhagen.
two attacks on westerners in Tunisia (one at a museum, the other attack in Sousse)
Lion.
The fast train.
Metrojet.
Paris.

This list only contains the latest attacks against and within Europe.
Every attack from muslim extremists against and within Europe will only lead to more commitment to end this sick extremist ideology.

a reply to: earthling42

This list only contains the latest attacks against and within Europe. Every attack from muslim extremists against and within Europe will only lead to more commitment to end this sick extremist ideology.

How does one end an ideology? I'd really like to know.
There will always be extremists, in every group.

When are we going to forget the past and move out of pre-modern sectarian intolerance?


We have to transcend the bottomless ignorance of the ignorant and learn to love one another for what we are and that’s the very meaning of Christ’s saying to us love thy enemy
He probably meant love that which is other than you


When this ugly period of ISIS ends, and it will end, because the human spirit always finds a small vessel to ride its light upon humanity, despite the intense darkness of some, and teach humankind the higher way.


My first Muslim teacher use to say to us when the sectarian Salafis, with their intolerant views of pre-modern religion, visited our mosque.

He would say “Just win your argument”


That’s the message to the Muslims when you confront these Salafi/Wahhabis, or even some of the real crazies like ISIS, argue with them in the best manner, civil and peaceful, but prevail over their intolerant views with the truth of Islam.

a reply to: Willtell

He would say “Just win your argument”

That's a good one.

While I agree fully with the sentiment, when cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias are at work at the same time...you ain't gonna win nothin'.