Muslim speaking out!

Muslim speaks out? That's nice. Go speak out in the middle east. We've all heard the 'oh but it's only a tiny percentage of them'. So using basic logic and maths more muslims means more only a tiny percentage of them.

a reply to: JimTSpock

Unfortunately in the Middle East, a moderate muslim is not able to do very much to be heard. In countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar citizens who try and stand up to the regimes and call for democratic rights are regularly imprisoned and sentenced with lashings.

In Saudi, even teaching Islam that does not conform to the House of Saud's interpretation is often considered illegal and individuals are routinely prosecuted for it. Without political freedoms it is impossible to expect religious freedom. And when the state is religiously extreme, as in Saudi Arabia and Iran, it is impossible to imagine moderate Muslims having the freedom to promote a tolerant view of Islam.

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: uncommitted

Well for starters, this thread is about radical Islam. Second, is the IRA in charge of a State or Nation that has laws based on a dogma that takes rights away from women, has extreme punishments (including capital punishment) for adultery, homosexuality, etc.?

The key difference, as I mentioned in my original analysis, is scale. Of course, I would agree there are a lot of other factors to consider that have caused this difference in scale (some of which I mentioned like western foreign policy and colonization), but also things like social media and technology.

Personally, I think a more accurate analogy instead of IRA to Christians, or KKK to Christians; would be Germans to NAZIs during WWII as Muslims to ISIS / Radical Islam now.

You are of course absolutely right, this thread is about Muslim extremists, but many of the responses are suggesting an individual should take direct action against them to in some way clear their own name - hence me asking why people are talking the talk but didn't walk the walk. As it happens, I think the analogy to IRA or KKK still stands. IS isn't in charge of a state - there are Islam based countries, not IS based countries so your questioning on that is a little moot. The Nazi analogy I can kind of agree with, but as I've said above, IS does not have a political party currently in control of a country...... or at the very least doesn't have an acknowledged one anyway.

Whether you agree with the harshness of many of the punishments carried out by the government in those countries and their attitude to women and homosexuality - both of which tend to vary based on the strand of Islam that effectively has control is one thing (I'm non Muslim and don't agree with any of the punishments or attitudes), but that isn't the same as the extremism IS is promoting.

a reply to: Kapusta

While i agree factions within KSA do do fund extremist groups i don't believe the KSA government does .

Yes but one of the Saudi Princes has been arrested for trying to import drugs into SA.

www.presstv.ir...

And this wasn't just any drug either.This was Captagon,which ISIS is taking to fuel them in fighting and killing. 2 tons of the stuff.This wasn't for no party my friend. He was bringing it in to send to ISIS. Lets be clear on that. ISIS is getting their drugs,cars,weapons and other supplies from somewhere. And there is no places left on earth that aren't known about.So we do know where they are coming from. I had no intention of causing thread drift for you,but you pointed out that the government is not involved,and yet a prince in the royal family is bringing in drugs that end up in ISIS hands......yeah.

a reply to: JimTSpock
a reply to: flammadraco
a reply to: AMNicks

Unfortunately in the Middle East, a moderate muslim is not able to do very much to be heard. In countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar citizens who try and stand up to the regimes and call for democratic rights are regularly imprisoned and sentenced with lashings.

In Saudi, even teaching Islam that does not conform to the House of Saud's interpretation is often considered illegal and individuals are routinely prosecuted for it. Without political freedoms it is impossible to expect religious freedom. And when the state is religiously extreme, as in Saudi Arabia and Iran, it is impossible to imagine moderate Muslims having the freedom to promote a tolerant view of Islam.

Soo we have to "punished" for the weak backbone of the good muslims?

Regards,

SK

a reply to: flammadraco

flammadraco you hold a good response. i dont have the answers, no one does. We can say do more, report, identify but the truth lies with individuals. Im nervous for the Muslim faith, i believe there has been irreplicable damage caused to their name due to the scale and distance these extremists have spread their hate.

Although the two are separate can we ignore the fact that many of the Islamic beliefs are "extreme" to the western world? i dont know.
It wasnt too long ago that the Christian Religion didn't allow women vicars, or gay marriage but because of the collective support of the community this was put right.

And its clear from the posts you've shared that Muslims are putting pressure on extremism, but only of the the most obvious kind (IE: ISIS). Which leads me to my final question and im intrigued to read your response!

Can a religion (that seems) to refuse alteration to their beliefs towards women, education, punishment, age of consent and oppressive desires integrate and be apart of the modern society of the west?

a reply to: Kapusta

With all due respect, I can appreciate you for speaking out against this evil. However, you cannot deny the basic fact that the religion of Islam is the catalyst for this barbaric behavior. I'm not a scholar in the religion of Islam nor do I claim to be, but most westerners continue to hear and read about the criminal life and violent teachings of Mohammed. The mandatory expectations of women to wear the hijab and burqa clearly shows a degradation of women who are treated as second class citizens. Sharia law is also a barbaric practice for governing Islam. I and many Christians can't understand why Muslims would follow such a violent and authoritative religion. I myself have refused to follow my Catholic upbringing because of some of it's hypocritical teachings which are far from the barbaric and hypocritical practices of Islam.

I think most peaceful people in the world who believe in living a life of respect for humanity and for all of God's creations deserve a clear answer to this question. Your religion defines who you are and how you live your life!

You ask what you can do to be heard. I would suggest Muslims should organize marches everywhere to denounce ISIS and the terrorism they're spreading in the name of Islam. The Muslim community should be turning over names to the authorities of anyone they hear is planning violence and sympathizes with ISIS.

In closing, a poster from another thread posted this video of a Muslim who was raised in Islam. I've watched this young ladies rant on how Islam has hidden the true life of Mohammed. This young lady seems extremely knowledgeable in the area of Islam and has clearly exposed what she herself had found extremely offensive. I would really like to get your take on it. Here's the video...

a reply to: Kapusta

Speaking out is simply not enough, imams here in western Europe seem to realize this.
They have said that simply saying that this has nothing to do with islam accomplishes nothing.
Obviously there is a theological motivation behind this extremism, it comes forth from islamic teachings so it has everything to do with islam.
Hence, the caliphate named 'Islamic State' which has support from muslims all over the world despite all the atrocities in the most cruel ways against the Syrian population.

This might not be your understanding of islam, that does not mean that the same ideology is not the base of this religious extremism, it is.

They seem to try to create a division between muslims and non muslims, they will fail since islam itself is divided into multiple sects.
Hence the decades of violence among muslims, suicide bombings and so on.
Of course not all muslims share the same view as these muslim extremists, but it does not mean a thing if it is not acted up on.
By that i mean, the islamic world and islamic population must make a fist against the radical branch within islam, stop these extremists and its imams, the extremist preachers who poison the youngsters with this radical branch of islam.

a reply to: Kapusta

Keep up the good fight man. I know it's gotta be a trying time for you and other Muslims who know what it means to live peacefully with others. I've got your back. Muslims don't scare me. I know they are human just like the rest of us. Some are bad. Many are good.

a reply to: Kapusta

My question to you is what can we do to be heard ?

Simple...... get your guns and swords together, form a massive Islamic army and hunt down each one of these radicals and then arrest 30% to 50 % of the Islamic faith that ARE and HAVE been sympathetic and supportive towards these radicals and put them in prison.

This would be a good start.

Thank you OP for this thread. I too, together with all the people I personally know, do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists or jihadists. What we disagree upon most of the time, especially now, is about Islam. The question that always pops up is, "Is Islam a religion of violence and/or fanaticism?"

We now nothing of the Quran except that it is your "Bible"...we also know that there is a Moses in there, a Jesus, and some of the popular Christian characters. But aside from what Wikipedia says, that's about it.

It is also almost impossible to expect people who are not familiar with the Muslim faith to have them research on the subject before making comments or form an opinion. They have jobs, places to go to and people to meet...so I doubt they have time to "understand" your faith. Expecting them to self-educate themselves on the matter would be naive. In a perfect world, yes, that would be beautiful. But that is not the case.

Given this, I believe that is why people readily accept what the media paints Islam to be. The information coming to them is fast, convenient and cheap. CNN gives them the news as Amanpour breaks it down and analyzes it while Cooper is with "a man on the street" giving their accounts...people don't need to think anymore, the media is doing the thinking for them.

So what to do...hmmmmm.

I have no concrete answer. All I know is that media is key. Win them and you have a powerful tool to combat ignorance that leads to intolerance. That is why ISIS is resorting to viral videos and social media. They know the power of these mediums. Some of your Muslim brothers in Britain have already launched a viral campaign. #NOTINMYNAME. I believe they got the ball rolling on that one.

The key is to inform people the most fast, convenient and cheapest way possible. Right now your medium would be viral and social media. Organize your friends and elders...talk about a cost effective approach...if you have friends in public relations or advertising then great. If you have contacts with the local paper or even the broadsheets or radio or your local channel then better.

But what about those without internet. I believe this is where a grassroots development type of approach is effective. Small scale, tight community based groups holding open talks in the town hall or a gymnasium on weekends. Send out fliers or get a mention on the local radio to announce the event. Have a question and answer. Expect some assholes to be confrontational. Have a local policeman guard the event just to prevent hostilities. I mean, this approach is likened to an attrition war. Going house to house. But if successful, you have a bailiwick community in which you can operate from with strength and hope.

Those are just some of the ideas that come to mind. Be in it for the long haul. I wish you goodluck and keep us posted!

P.S. Your situation could be likened to Christians doing the Crusades in the olden times. They slaughtered a ton of innocent blood that time just for radical motives and gains. I wonder how the Vatican turned that around? Maybe that's a model you could work on?

And oh! Just a question. Don't take this the wrong way but do you have like the Pope in Islam? That one guy who could make a speech denouncing the violence and ISIS...that would be best way to have a focal point for the "good Muslims" to rally on. Because I imagine Islam to be full of sects and splinter groups that while some are good...others are downright wild and uncontrollable. Can it be likened to a house full of kids with divorced parents who hate each other...is this analogy correct? Because if you reverse the same analogy with Christians, you have the Unorthodox and Orthodox, Protestants and all the sects in there...but the difference is they don't hate each other enough to kill one another. Actually...I think they don't hate each other at all. Muslims on the other hand...hate and sometimes kill the other sect. Maybe the issue is control? Your elders or leaders have no control over their flock and each other. Hence the chaos, misunderstanding and violence.

These are just questions and musings and I admit I know nothing Islam. I want to understand it but do not have the time and I don't pretend to understand it by Googling and pretending to be enlightened like some other people. Maybe a thread entitled, THIS IS ISLAM, would be helpful? So we can have a final reference here in ATS...plus we could copy paste the link to our friends as well. Or a website or blog that caters to the intellectual as well as the not too bright users of the internet. Islam for dummies...that sort of thing. I saw the link that you posted...it has a gun...bloodied font...so much negative images for a website banner. You would want a neutral website or blog. No negative connotations. A clean design and user friendly navigation. Just a suggestion if you or your group would want to create their own.

Thank you.

a reply to: AMNicks

Can a religion (that seems) to refuse alteration to their beliefs towards women, education, punishment, age of consent and oppressive desires integrate and be apart of the modern society of the west?

As with the Christian Religion, there are many sects with different beliefs within Islam. As I already touched on the Wahhabism sect in my opinion is the worst of them all. As I said in my previous post on this thread - it's a misguided creed that fosters intolerance, promotes simplistic theology, and restricts Islam's capacity for adaption to diverse and shifting circumstances. This is the form of Islam that both Saudi Arabia and Iran promote around the World.

In traditional Islam (Not Wahhabism that's only been conceived in the last 200 years) Men and Woman are seen as equal in the eyes of God (Allah)

[Quran 3:195] Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

Most of the degrading, humiliation and poor treatment in these Muslim Countries for women, came from the desertion of the Quran , and refusal of the word of God in favor of some fabrications written in Hadith books that put women on the same level with animals, monkeys , asses or dogs.

Traditional Islam was in favour of equal rights for woman, for example;

Inheritance:

Much is made about the ruling that females inherit half of what males inherit. However, this is the case only if there is no last will and testament. In such situations, men inherit more because they are then required to use their wealth on the female members of their family who have no means of support.
Muslim women often enjoy living with the motto: “His money is our money while my money is my money.”

Head Covering

Women decide for themselves whether or not to cover. Perhaps the best Quranic verse to describe a woman’s rights under Islam is: “There is no compulsion in religion.” (2:256). That is, it is up to a person’s free will to choose what to accept as a religious obligation. For some it is the covering of their hair, for others the emphasis is on the inner development of ethical values. -

All in all Islam (Traditional Islam) is a Peaceful religion that could quite easily be compatible with Western Values, however unfortunately Saudi Arabia promoted Wahhabism to the World and thus caused the chaos we now see with all Musliums being tarnished with the same brush.

Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism

Although IS is certainly an Islamic movement, it is neither typical nor mired in the distant past, because its roots are in Wahhabism, a form of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia that developed only in the 18th century.

In July 2013, the European Parliament identified Wahhabism as the main source of global terrorism, and yet the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, condemning IS in the strongest terms, has insisted that “the ideas of extremism, radicalism and terrorism do not belong to Islam in any way”. Other members of the Saudi ruling class, however, look more kindly on the movement, applauding its staunch opposition to Shiaism and for its Salafi piety, its adherence to the original practices of Islam. This inconsistency is a salutary reminder of the impossibility of making accurate generalisations about any religious tradition. In its short history, Wahhabism has developed at least two distinct forms, each of which has a wholly different take on violence.

Read more here

By the way, I am not Muslim, or any religion but have an understanding of most religions through reading and studying. My personal belief would be classed as Deism, that being said, if any Muslim ATS member thinks anything in this post is incorrect, please enlighten me.

Muslims have been periodically destroying the west for hundreds and hundreds of years. Want to talk about the crusades? Look at a map of the crusader led battles vs the Muslim led ones and tell me they are equivalent. People forget the past so readily.

a reply to: Kapusta

Get a massive world wide petition effort for Muslims to sign with this declaration:

Or something like it


I as a Muslim, a human of peace and brotherhood say to all terrorists, such as ISIS and Al Qaeda


You are not of me, and I am not of you


Try to get millions of Muslims to sign it

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Hundreds and hundreds of years? How were the Muslims destroying the world between the 1300's and the 1970's exactly?

Ghengis khan set them back by massacring them. a reply to: Krazysh0t

Also colonialism. Helped for awhile. Middle east look great III n the 60s.

originally posted by: Kapusta
As many of you know I am MUSLIM . I have been on these boards for some time continually trying to educate people on Islam and extremism . between battling with all the lies and misquoted scripture from bias anti Islam sources being regurgitated here, I must say it's starting to take a toll on my emotions .

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim . I see it on FB , I hear it when I go pray at the masjid everyday. The only place i don't see it or hear it is the MSM.

I have been a student in Islamic studies for some time. Namley islamic law and hadith. I am an American convert . It took me about 3 years to really underatand the very basics of this religion . So I try to keep that in mind when dealing with people who think they are Islamic scholars on ATS . I also understand how barbaric this religion can seem to people who don't understand it.

So its important to pass on knowlege that is correct . otherwise it can be distorted or misinterpreted this is why I struggle at times to find information. Most of the leading scholars speak only Arabic so finding translations is hard, thats another reason why people don't " see us speaking out"

I want to take this time to Thank SO for his thread on the Muslim bashing going on at ATS.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I also want to reassure the members that they have every right to be mad and upset at these terrorist. They are pure evil scum. But please know that they are not of Islam, They are of something evil. They're actions take them way outside the folds of Islam.

As I have stated before their are 1.5 billion muslims in this world . extremist make up a small percent of that .

I don't want to drag this thread on. I can go on about it for years .

But I want to assure u WE ARE SPEAKING OUT .
www.islamagainstextremism.com...

My question to you is what can we do to be heard ?

Kap.

Do an "Im a Muslim ask me anything" thread

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Gengis Khan wasn't a muslim. He also lived during the 12th century, which is outside of the date range I requested. Try again.

l

ol obviously, khan decimated the muslims. Reading is hooord.

I don't see any reason for you to have to defend your faith or political views. True freedom has room for bigots and saints. Extremist take all forms. People seem to forget about groups like the IRA, Indian Maoist and Naxalites, Red Army Faction, Werewolf Groups, Aum Shinrikyo and a slew of others because it doesn't fit their narrative or need for a witch hunt.