The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: SPECULUM

Right. Banned from the planet.

I guess you don't realize how idiotic that sounds. Or maybe you do. Hard to tell on the interwebs.

Its not idiotic, its the only way to stop its evil spell on ignorant and Naive peoples

It soon shall begin anyway, as Europe will start closing down Mosque and evicting and deporting Muslime

Mark my words

Hello! European here.

It won't happen because Europe isn't run by the votes of angry-heads on internet forums. If it was, the world population would be down to a few dozen jackasses shouting at each other across the smouldering remains of their back yards.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Will you feel stupid when it does???

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Kandinsky

Will you feel stupid when it does???

It's already started their closing mosques.eaglerising.com...
mobile.nytimes.com...
www.thelocal.it...
conservativepost.com...://m.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1121/Moscow-mayor-No-more-mosques-in -my-city

Its not idiotic, its the only way to stop its evil spell on ignorant and Naive peoples

Yoda voice..."realize you must ignorance is what you preach"...

I will add the irony is thick when you are calling out the very thing that you are promoting...

Only the unloved and the unnatural hate, don't be those people!

a reply to: dragonridr

It's already started their closing mosques

Actually, none of your links say that.

originally posted by: 222mockingbirdlane

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: 222mockingbirdlane

Could you give an example of where they are stated clearly?

Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God; however this works both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.


The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
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sh

Cool , but hey ,let me tell you whats going on here .

We muslims don't use "Direct translations" to interpret Quran . we use some books called "Tafsir" books which are written by greatest scholars to interpret them for the reasons that i'll explain

So as i said , direct translations don't work , ok ? why ?

each aya' or verse has what we persians call "شان نزول" or Sha'ni nozool . this basically means that each revelation has been sent to prophet Mohhamad at a specific time and a specific location . it's very important to know what i quran talking about and what really is happening .

as an example , you know that muslims don't drink alcohol , right ? there are 3 different places in quran in which that issue is addressed :

1- it calls upon muslims to pray when they are sober . if they don't , their prayers are not accepted

2- it calls upon muslims lower their consumption as it's harms overweight it's benefits

3- it totally bans the thing

so you see ? if you use the first verse , you can say that : "oh look , alcohol is not banned in islam" . but it is .

at the time of prophet muhhammad , those people who quran calls "enemies of God" were basically beasts .

1-they opened the wombs of pregnant women and bet on the baby's sex .

2- they would bury their girls alive for the crime of being a girl

3- they killed innocents mercilessly and in cold-blood .

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.
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thats why quran says find these animals and kill them as they are enemies of God .

a reply to: dragonridr

I think the member was alluding more to the idea of all mosques will be closed down and Muslims driven out altogether. That's the context his recent comments suggest and that's what I was disputing.

For me, I'm in favour of closing any mosques that act as lightning rods for extremism or radicalisation. At the same time, what do we do with our fellow westerners who also bear the signs of radicalisation?

Some Western males are calling for the deaths of all Muslims and going so far as to suggest nuking them.
Some Muslim males are calling for the deaths of all western males and going so far as to suggest nuking them.

What makes one group 'radicals' and not the other??

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Konduit

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: UnBreakable

I have to say that in the name of God more atrocities has been committed in the world than all wars combine since man made a choice of choosing a scapegoat for God.

Is just human nature.

Atheist regimes under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot are responsible for up to 200 million deaths in the 20th century alone, far exceeding any number of atrocities made in the name of God.

You might want to do a little reading on that...
Th e Atheist Atrocities Fallacy - Hitler, Stalin & Pol Pot

I think you missed the point that warmongers will always find an excuse to justify their actions, whether it be in the name of religion, security, politics or patriotism. It's just a means to an end.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: dragonridr

I think the member was alluding more to the idea of all mosques will be closed down and Muslims driven out altogether. That's the context his recent comments suggest and that's what I was disputing.

For me, I'm in favour of closing any mosques that act as lightning rods for extremism or radicalisation. At the same time, what do we do with our fellow westerners who also bear the signs of radicalisation?

Some Western males are calling for the deaths of all Muslims and going so far as to suggest nuking them.
Some Muslim males are calling for the deaths of all western males and going so far as to suggest nuking them.

What makes one group 'radicals' and not the other??

This is a no win situation comes down to one problem how do you tell the good guys from the bad guys? You can't and you have ISIL admitting they are sending people with the refugees. So this leaves only 1 choice for Western nations they have to wait until an act is committed in order to respond. The other alternative goes against Western beliefs and that is to just stop all refugees. This is something that tears at the very heart of europe. People want to help people ravaged by war.

Any war with terrorism requires the terrorists to reveal themselves. Their is no way I know of to read minds to know if someone is a radical. What can Europe do? Bottom line is nothing wait and hopefully kill the terrorists before they kill others. Only other option put French forces in syria and once again wait until they are attacked. This was the Bush doctrine and we see how well that worked. Out the army their to kill anyone that attacks them.

Here we go again...jerk those knees...bet IS/ISIS/ISIL/Daesh is just thrilled.

Mosques vandalized, terrorized after Paris terror attacks

a reply to: dragonridr

As much as I pretend to have any solutions, it seems like we need to remain calm and stick to the laws and customs we have. Hindsight tends to show that terrorists were known to authorities and maybe there's a way of rationalising the communications so flags go up and are seen by all agencies?

It's a very difficult set of circumstances, as you point out. A lot of people want to help refugees and don't want to invite wolves into their homes. Genuine refugees and asylum seekers are mixed in with people who don't have our welfare in mind. The economic conditions of most parts of the ME are way below western standards and that creates a 'push.' The jobs, quality of life here etc represents a 'pull' too.

Even legally. As nations, we've signed up to agreements that mean we have to take asylum seekers and refugees. It isn't as simple as closing borders, but a lot of people think it is. We've all got responsibilities and obligations as UN members.

We could use more airstrikes, but that creates more displaced populations and more refugees. We can leave them all to it and that still leaves refugees.

There's nothing simple about any of this is there?

a reply to: ~Lucidity
They want us to be suspicious and hateful of Muslims and refugees. If we presented a united front. Their efforts would look like a massive failure. They want us scared and divided so they are having a lot of success at the moment.

1) Find all muslims with connections to ISIS somehow.
2) Kill everyone in 1.
3) ????
4) Profit. There is now no terrorists on this planet.

originally posted by: SBargisen
1) Find all muslims with connections to ISIS somehow.
2) Kill everyone in 1.
3) ????
4) Profit. There is now no terrorists on this planet.

So kill everyone who lives in ISIS controlled territory?? (they have to be linked, as they live there)

This is absurd, as pretending that we should have killed all Germans who were connected to Nazi Germany - many of them were forced to live there and not object because any objection would mean death - same is happening with ISIS and is reason why Muslims are their highest target - everyone who dares to object to their views is killed, dropped from building etc... (I know, you don't hear about this in western media, or you just don't pay attention)

To win this war we have to win over their ideology and prove that what they are doing is treachery for humankind. But it is kind of hard to do with damage drone strikes, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and toppled dictators in north Africa. Whole region is so much destabilized and foreigners and their way of life (meaning us) is easiest thing to blame for all bad things.

They have to be defeated, but not by killing everyone in middle east.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: StallionDuck

Did I walk into a weird loop hole?

No. You created one. You need to back off, quit demanding that others focus on you and your points, and recognize that you do not understand SO's directive. So take a deep breath, clear your mind and try to think.

The issue at hand is hate and fear, specifically, the hate being directed against Muslims and the fear of Muslims that's being artificially generated. The comparison to Christians is a relatively minor incidental. The MSM is not pushing people to hate and fear Christians. The MSM is pushing people to hate and fear Muslims - that's what SO is warning against.

LOL Priceless.

Perhaps it is YOU who should back off. My response was focused towards one person and one topic. The OP. Me and that person was going back and forth. You took some interest in my post apparently but didn't focus on the source of the thread of my responses. I'm fully aware of what the OP was all about. How about YOU take a chill pill and mind your own if you cant bring something constructive to the table. I had unanswered question. If you and others decide to jump in on the conversation, then offer something of worth. Not some bully assed response where I should "back off". You obviously have no idea of the direction or the origin of my response to the OP was or you would not be here being all billy badass.

Right now, you're acting like a bouncer with a bully complex standing outside a club where the likes of people like me aren't welcome. Get off it and deal with it. You don't have a right or a say so of who speaks here. If you don't like the questions I'm posing, maybe you should offer a solution or simply go your way.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I think its great that the site owner has spoken out and taken a stand against the blatant racism which has begun to run rampant on this site. It has become quite obvious that there are those with an agenda that are trying to take advantage of the increasing popularity and notoriety of this site and use it as a staging post to spread their hatred and ignorance.
The people doing this are really not even that good at it, the threads and those involved who will post replies within moments of each other spouting off the same old tired racist gibberish are very easy to spot and although I am glad of this post I am also surprised that they have been allowed to get away with it for so long.
In case people had forgotten this is a conspiracy website, not a public forum for the twisted and deranged members of extremist xenophobic racist right wingers to hijack and spread their cancerous beliefs.

a reply to: StallionDuck

How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians!

as many times as you like,

Muslims keep saying that ISIS don't represent Islam yet that seems to fall deaf ears so why not your "these people are not Christians"?

Hate makes people deaf to reasoning.


I think S.O. is bringing up these examples because he is responding to posts about Christians and Christian groups do no such thing.

a reply to: 222mockingbirdlane

The Qurans orders to murder do not have to be interpreted!

example?


Many Muslims have shown the opposite on the site, showing and explaining that if a Muslim murders its like murdering the whole world.



Many Muslims on ATS have shown how passages that people use to say it does say what you suggest is way out of context.

So care to care give some examples where it states a Muslim must murder without no interpretation needed?



Edit:

Thanks for the examples but as I expected its been explained further up on this page.

Understanding Holy Books as whole, understanding them in fashion they are meant to be understood is critical if ones wants to know.

Every holy scripture/book can be interpreted as being evil, however my understanding is they all try to teach unity and peace.

Its those that either don't want the whole picture, cant be bothered to find out because they already have their minds made up or have a darker agenda that try to use passages from holy books to stir hatred.

Manipulation of humans is quite easy, hate and fear are easier emotions to attach to due to the world around us than love and compassion are.

I just wish that the hate ISIS want people feel towards Islam is recognized and not give in to what ISIS and other terror groups alike want.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: 222mockingbirdlane

The Qurans orders to murder do not have to be interpreted!

example?


Many Muslims have shown the opposite on the site, showing and explaining that if a Muslim murders its like murdering the whole world.


Many Muslims on ATS have shown how passages that people use to say it does say what you suggest is way out of context.

So care to care give some examples where it states a Muslim must murder without no interpretation needed?

exactly!
The opposite is also true . We believe that if you even save one person God treats you as if you have saved the whole world

There is also hagh al-naas . Which God says he will not forgive. Let me explain :

God says that if you don't pray for example, he can forgive that , but if you damage any other humans in any sort be it emotional or physical, he will NOT forgive those sins unless you convince the person you've damaged that you didnt mean to hurt them or that you are sorry and you want to make it up to them . And you should do this on this world otherwise youre in trouble.

Hagh al-naas is literally one of the greatest sins a Muslim can commit.

Let alone killing someone. And even worse : killing innocent people because of hate !

Our greatest heros throughout the history died for justice. Like Imam hosein .

Now how can a Muslim commit all of these disgusting acts of terror and call himself a human ? Let alone a Muslim?