Do home schooled kids actually have to learn something?

a reply to: VoidHawk

Actually, this is quite the opposite. These parents are referring to their children as homeschooled in an effort to keep them out of the public school system. The problem is they have no intention of actually attempting to teach them anything due to their religious beliefs.

So their children aren't actually being schooled at all. They're just skipping their education by parental decree.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I'm not certain ... but I think some of these "Christian colleges" don't require the ACT/SAT for admittance.

I would wager that many of them do not and that they are also non-accredited.

She chose to pay for her own school, and go to an accredited school that would provide recognized diploma.

The list of accredited schools open to homeschooled children, who able to gain admissions via testing, is quite large and filled with many recognizable names.

a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

Greetings- Let me ask Judge Smails. If anyone would know it would be a member in good standing with The Bar..

www.youtube.com...

namaste

originally posted by: maria_stardust
These kids aren't being home schooled, they're nothing more than dropouts with parental consent. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing these parents charged with negligence in this case. These kids will be lucky to get a job flipping burgers without even a basic GED.

Well that's not so bad, after all, they're calling for $15.00 an hour wages and many are getting it. Now if you would have said elderly care facility worker (PCA - personal care assistant) you might just be on to something. It seems much more important in our society to be paid well for flipping burgers than caring for others in facilities designed as such. So why with the negative burger flipping mentality? Not everyone is destined or desires to be a CPA, CEO or computer programmer.

The kids I know that are home schooled are above the education levels for their grade and age. Just because people claim home schooling for their child(ren) doesn't necessarily mean they are actually schooled in academics at home. There are always those who will take advantage of any situation for personal comfort or gain.

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: VoidHawk

Actually, this is quite the opposite. These parents are referring to their children as homeschooled in an effort to keep them out of the public school system. The problem is they have no intention of actually attempting to teach them anything due to their religious beliefs.

So their children aren't actually being schooled at all. They're just skipping their education by parental decree.

In that case they're not really home schoolers then are they! Which is why I said

Just another way to bash the home schoolers eh!

Home schoolers should not be linked to this story.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Basically her parents said "We'll help you pay for college, but only if you go to one of these specific Christian colleges" -- which were not accredited.

She chose to say, "no thanks, I'll figure out how to pay my own way" ...

She came from a family that required her to wear skirts all the time, it wasn't Mennonite or anything ... I can't remember the name of the church... I went to her sister's wedding -- there was no dancing allowed, or music. Lots of wine though, that was somehow OK. Weird.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Basically her parents said "We'll help you pay for college, but only if you go to one of these specific Christian colleges" -- which were not accredited.

She chose to say, "no thanks, I'll figure out how to pay my own way" ...

She made an obviously correct decision.

Forget School in all it's forms.

Give the kid a lap top and if they want to learn they will.

School is just a propaganda, social indoctrination, prison machine that only uses education as an excuse for its existence.... And to have a football team.

We can use all that money wasted on education to invade more countries and steal their resources.

I'm not sure how many people are familiar with the concept of "unschooling", but that's what we've been doing with my daughter for the past couple years. Very little formal instruction. Student-led learning. Lots of freedom. The traditional school model is not for everyone.

Here's what she's been working on lately, at age 7. Use the "look inside" feature:

Stories Without Endings

Stories Without Endings, Vol. 2

originally posted by: BiffWellington
I'm not sure how many people are familiar with the concept of "unschooling", but that's what we've been doing with my daughter for the past couple years. Very little formal instruction. Student-led learning. Lots of freedom. The traditional school model is not for everyone.

I'll wait until she's grown up, in the real world, has a job and decides she can do whatever she feels like.

I was basically raised without rules. I know what a shock the real world can be.

Is this a real question, or just another attempt to bash home schooling? Pulling out extreme cases like this, and assuming this is the norm for home schooling, isn't showing anything close to an accurate picture of the reality.

Here are some facts for you:

Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

1. In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects.

Check the link for a lot more detail. Home schooled students tend to be far ahead of their public schooled peers in every area. Oh, yes, they learn!

More -

7. In 1990, the National Home Education Research Institute issued a report entitled "A Nationwide Study of Home Education: Family Characteristics, Legal Matters, and Student Achievement." This was a study of over 2,163 homeschooling families..........

...no difference was found in the achievement scores of students between the three groups which represent various degrees of state regulation of home education.... It was found that students in all three regulation groups scored on the average at or above the 76th percentile in the three areas examined: total reading, total math, and total language. These findings in conjunction with others described in this section, do not support the idea that state regulation and compliance on the part of home education families assures successful student achievement.

So, more regulation does not mean better education.

Furthermore, this same study demonstrated that only 13.9 percent of the mothers (who are the primary teachers) had ever been certified teachers. The study found that there was no difference in the students' total reading, total math and total language scores based on the teacher certification status of their parents: The findings of this study do not support the idea that parents need to be trained and certified teachers to assure successful academic achievement of their children.

12. In 1986, researcher Lauri Scogin surveyed 591 homeschooled children and discovered that 72.61% of the homeschooled children scored one year or more above their grade level in reading. 49.79% scored one year or more above their grade level in math. xvi 1. In 1982, Dr. Raymond Moore studied several thousand homeschooled children throughout the United States. His research found that these children have been performing, on the average, in the 75th to the 95th percentile on Stanford and Iowa Achievement Tests. Additionally, Dr. Moore did a study of homeschooled children whose parents were being criminally charged for exercising their right to teach their own children. He found that the children scored on the average in the 80th percentile.

13. Statistics also demonstrate that homeschoolers tend to score above the national average on both their SAT and ACT scores. For example, the 2,219 students reporting their homeschool status on the SAT in 1999 scored an average of 1083 (verbal 548, math 535), 67 points above the national average of 1016. In 2004 the 7,858 homeschool students taking the ACT scored an average of 22.6, compared to the national average of 20.9. According to the 1998 ACT High School Profile Report, 2,610 graduating homeschoolers took the ACT and scored an average of 22.8 out of a possible 36 points. This score is slightly higher that the 1997 report released on the results of 1,926 homeschool graduates and founding homeschoolers maintained the average of 22.5. This is higher than the national average, which was 21.0 in both 1997 and 1998.

There is, as I stated, a lot more date to be found at the source, linked above. Have a look, and learn how well the average home schooled student is educated, compared to the average public school student. Yes, they learn!

We home school, and yes, our kids learn! They study math, science, history, grammar, reading, writing, and other topics as they show an interest. One is starting to work on Chinese. Another wants to learn French. One is a pretty good artist. One loves to write.

Most parents who home school do so because we want our children to learn more than the schools are teaching these days. Some do for additional reasons, such as better moral upbringing, a safer environment, and so forth. Some do for religious reasons. All of these are quite valid. Parents have the right to determine what sort of education their children receive. When the average college student has no working knowledge of the Constitution, isn't aware of how the government works, doesn't know basic geography, etc., and the average college student comes from the public schools, I am not overly concerned with the home schooled students!

a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

Yes they do. Please realize that the quality of education in the US has cratered ever since the Department of Education was formed in 1979. Check out some of these statistics.

www.home-school.com...

The home schoolers are learning a hell of a lot more than the other kids.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Homeschool Legal Defense Association.

No bias there

originally posted by: KEACHI
a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

Yes they do. Please realize that the quality of education in the US has cratered ever since the Department of Education was formed in 1979. Check out some of these statistics.

www.home-school.com...

The home schoolers are learning a hell of a lot more than the other kids.

And thats why we're seeing more threads like this one with its very misleading title appearing all over the internet, because they're trying to con parents into thinking home schooling is bad.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

It's the extreme cases which merit discussion.

I think that all forms of education are worthwhile from the public school system (my children) to homeschooling to unschooling. As long as our children are ultimately learning and are capable of demonstrating that, then that's the ultimate goal.

No effort is being made in this particular case.

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

It's the extreme cases which merit discussion.

I think that all forms of education are worthwhile from the public school system (my children) to homeschooling to unschooling. As long as our children are ultimately learning and are capable of demonstrating that, then that's the ultimate goal.

No effort is being made in this particular case.

YES!!!! All variations during all the school years.

What is the major difference between a child being successful or not in public school? PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT.

Children are different. They are not a One Fits All. I do not believe all children benefit from home schooling. But, also, I think some suffer in the social harshness public school can be.

a reply to: TheAmazingYeti
My nephew was home schooled. He graduated with a high school diploma and a college degree in aeronautical science, and a full scholarship to one of the best engineering science schools in America. He has a friend that graduated with a high school diploma and 2 college degrees.

So they can learn a heck of a lot more with home schooling if they are dedicated to learning. A lazy child that isn't interested in learning in a classroom, is not likely to do any better with home schooling, but there is always that child that will surprise you, when removed from all the distractions and the per pressure.

Only those who have never dealt with home-schooled students could bash it. During my nearly 30 years of doing public education at an academic research center, I saw hundreds of these students. They were the most curious, knowledgeable and well-behaved students we served.

Some students do well despite being subjected to public education but I fail to see how any student wouldn't achieve on a higher level if the education were tailored to the student. I've seen far more kids get crushed and abused by the public school system than by an alternative education.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

It bashes both homeschooling and the religious. I've noticed that for certain media outlets sensational child abuse stories like this one are far more likely to be highlighted at a national level if you can add some kind of bizarre religious twist into them. That this one has both religion and homeschooling is just gravy.

When you read the stories themselves, the difference between the average local child abuse horror story and these are really nothing, but these go national. The only difference is the religion connection in most cases.

And for a lot of people, homeschooling is till that thing bizarre Evangelical fundie parents do to avoid putting their children in normal school.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: TheAmazingYeti
My nephew was home schooled. He graduated with a high school diploma and a college degree in aeronautical science, and a full scholarship to one of the best engineering science schools in America. He has a friend that graduated with a high school diploma and 2 college degrees.

So they can learn a heck of a lot more with home schooling if they are dedicated to learning. A lazy child that isn't interested in learning in a classroom, is not likely to do any better with home schooling, but there is always that child that will surprise you, when removed from all the distractions and the per pressure.

And you don't think it has anything to do with who's doing the teaching? And how they're doing it?

Great! We have success stories.

Let's just ignore the failures and incompetent parents who didn't do things that were beneficial to their children or their education.