Sobering documentary of the Muslim problem in Europe: Paris, Sweden, no-go zones

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

I know you and I haven't exactly hit it off Bluesma

But, that's more on your end than mine :-)

I don't remember any past disagreements between you and I, but I tend to have a poor memory for those things.

But what I objected to was this-

Welcome to the side of reason

It's sometimes hard to remain objective - but it's worth the effort

(along with the "nice save at the end")

I read that as an assertion that you think I was NOT being objective and NOT being reasonable before.
Is that a misinterpretation on my part? Because that seems to me to be an insult, however subtly placed.
Your end doesn't seem quite as innocent as you claim...?

What I think many people on the other side of the world, with the extreme left type of view on this issue do not understand is concerning this-

having left their homes and everything they knew behind to make some kind of life in a land that doesn't want them

Ghettos successfully keep people from integrating with the rest of the local population, and force them to keep to themselves

The only thing I know for sure is that if we don't allow people to settle and assimilate we can expect the worst to happen

Especially in America, where they are so used to seeing immigrants come there with their eyes full of living the American Dream- where a man can start off with nothing, and if he is smart or hardworking enough, can end up rich. They want to assimilate. They want part of the system. That's why they came there.

This is not the case over here with the arabs. They don't WANT to assimilate. For generations, the french have been bending over backwards to welcome them, make them feel at home, give them whatever they want or need. They were quite welcome when they started pouring in from Algeria, seen as a much needed resource for work. Much of their culture has been embraced by the french in terms of art, music, clothing, furniture. (my brother in laws house he calls "little Morocco" they made it into a veritable riad).

The suddenly growing violence and the way the Islamic Extremists are finding a fertile planting ground (in comparison to the past, in which Muslims have been able to immigrate and live amongst other without much problem, as you mentioned) is, in my opinion, due to the human Will to Power. Here, these people do not perceive the french as powerful. They've been too nice, giving up too much, never saying no out of fear of being "racist".

Nobody wants to join with and be part of the sissies who get beaten up daily and their lunch money stolen.

But then 911 came in, oooohh look at that! there's a group rising that is so powerful it can make Americas knees tremble!
It can make them run all over the globe in a frenzy! They are so powerful, they were able to push my parents right out of their own country, which they loved so much! They are bad ass! Not like these pansies in France. I want in!!

For the kids, born in France, but refusing to assimilate the society, looking for a power to get close to, DAESH is the perfect answer.

This is where I object to the extreme left 'just relax and be NICE to them!' is just as dangerous as it's opposite. The french have been doing that- they went way too far with it, and that is how we got here.

originally posted by: Bluesma


The suddenly growing violence and the way the Islamic Extremists are finding a fertile planting ground (in comparison to the past, in which Muslims have been able to immigrate and live amongst other without much problem, as you mentioned) is, in my opinion, due to the human Will to Power. Here, these people do not perceive the french as powerful. They've been too nice, giving up too much, never saying no out of fear of being "racist".

As I said in an earlier post... You cannot have free speech due to

*political correctness* and where that doesn't work the *human

rights* card gets pulled out.


Increasingly I see there is an agenda!? and it is being cleverly worked

against the West.

a reply to: eletheia

KIds here tell of how the arab kids terrorize the teachers. Everyone pretty much shrugs their shoulders and say, yeah, that's what is going on. What can you do? Let's talk about something else.

My daughter described to me one day how in class, they got their graded papers back, and one arab kid stood up, went to the teachers desk and placed it in front of her. He said he wanted a better grade.
He said, if you do not change it, now, I am going to complain that you have been racist.

She hesitated, looked like she was going to cry, and reached out and changed the grade on the paper.

I watched a colleague at my work manipulate the adminstrators with exactly the same threat. He would brag about everything he was able to get away with. He thought it was hilarious. I asked him once if he never felt any tinge of guilt about this, he just smirked that it is their fault. If they would grow some balls and not fall for it, it wouldn't work.

a reply to: Bluesma

Yes the bully culture is alive and well all over.

People repeat behavior that works. Fear is a powerful tool. It is when one's back is to a corner and there is only one way out, that the direction of that fear may suddenly change.

Many are concerned that they are being backed into a corner, a place no one ever wants to be, a place were they know if they find themselves, only one person is like!y to come out alive.

No one wants to find themselves in a life or death scenario, but human nature leads one to continue to push as long as they have the power to do so, even if it ends up with both falling off the cliff.

You can't lump all the asylum seekers together in mass. It makes it extremely difficult for them to learn the language and assimilate. People are drawn to what is familiar. Being in a strange land with nothing around you that is familiar or brings you comfort, even the monster you once ran from starts to have appeal. At least it is a monster you know.

a reply to: Bluesma

I watched a colleague at my work manipulate the adminstrators with exactly the same threat. He would brag about everything he was able to get away with. He thought it was hilarious. I asked him once if he never felt any tinge of guilt about this, he just smirked that it is their fault. If they would grow some balls and not fall for it, it wouldn't work.

I would try calling my colleague out on this. In front of everybody. I would ask if this was a new rule that now applies to everyone. I would respectfully tell her, if it didn't apply to all of the team then she was either being racist or showing favoritism.

I would also call out my co-worker. I would tell him in front of everyone, that what he was demanding is not standard, and ask him why he thinks he should have a privelage that is not available to the rest of the team.

Yes, I know it is not easy to standup for what you feel is right. My head was on the chopping block a many a day for being the one that dared speak up.

It just became easier for me to speak up, then to let it sit in my craw and continue to regurgitate it over and over for weeks.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Bluesma

I watched a colleague at my work manipulate the adminstrators with exactly the same threat. He would brag about everything he was able to get away with. He thought it was hilarious. I asked him once if he never felt any tinge of guilt about this, he just smirked that it is their fault. If they would grow some balls and not fall for it, it wouldn't work.

I would try calling my colleague out on this. In front of everybody. I would ask if this was a new rule that now applies to everyone. I would respectfully tell her, if it didn't apply to all of the team then she was either being racist or showing favoritism.

What? There was nothing to "call out". He was bragging all the time openly. This was no secret whispered or anything. No one didn't know. (that include the boss).

For the superiors, it was something embarrassing and frustrating, but they felt completely powerless. Bringing it up to the boss would have set him against me badly. It is like pointing out the boss's weaknesses. Everyone knows about them, but you just refrain from making direct comments about it.
He's still working there, I saw him at the store yesterday. He is on paid sick leave, of course. He always is. He announces a few days before he gets a stomach flu that he will have one.

It has been suggested to me many times, by many people, that I could use the race card myself. I won't though.
But then I am seen as overly moralistic, like most Americans.

a reply to: Bluesma

I read that as an assertion that you think I was NOT being objective and NOT being reasonable before.
Is that a misinterpretation on my part? Because that seems to me to be an insult, however subtly placed.

How you see it is up to you. What I said before was based on everything you'd said earlier - but never mind Bluesma. Having read what you just said - I take it back. What it meant then no longer matters

originally posted by: Bluesma


KIds here tell of how the arab kids terrorize the teachers. Everyone pretty much shrugs their shoulders and say, yeah, that's what is going on. What can you do? Let's talk about something else.

My daughter described to me one day how in class, they got their graded papers back, and one arab kid stood up, went to the teachers desk and placed it in front of her. He said he wanted a better grade.
He said, if you do not change it, now, I am going to complain that you have been racist.

I can relate to that...

My grandson passed an exam and interview to get into what was considered

the best school in the area. My daughter was delighted as their ethos on strict

discipline fitted in well with her ideas on upbringing.


In his class was an insolent, disruptive pupil of Indian descent (second

generation settled immigrant) School policy was, one warning before

expulsion, however in his case he had three warnings before the inevitable

expulsion.


*Political correctness* is an inverse form of racism which is disadvantageous

to our own children .... and general population.

a reply to: Bluesma

Please don't think I am criticizing you. Everyone does what is best for their situation, and what works to their advantage.

I was making a suggestion only because it had worked on occasion for me when I did what I do so well, open my big mouth. As I said, it didn't always work as I hoped, and I have had my head on the chopping block a many a day because if it.

I am lucky in a way, because I have worn a many of hats before my semi-retirement, so finding a job has always been fairly easy, and most people know what they are getting when they hire me. They know I am upfront and honest. If I don't understand something, if necessary, talk to me like I am three years old, because I am not going to proceed until I do understand and it makes sense to me.

That is just me and my personal hang up. Fire me if you want, but I am going to have it on the record that I felt that a superior was displaying rasict or favorable treatment. I am not saying it didn't happen around me, I am saying if it was going on, they wanted to make sure it was not sonething in my face or flaunted.

My friends say it is just my Scorpio, "fair for the goose, fair for the gander; if you kill my dog, I am going to kill your cat", nature. I think it is because being raised in a huge family made fairness a most needed attribute to maintain peace and harmony, and I am big on peace and harmony. Even if it takes a little discord to get to that state.

I don't think we are in disagreement, we just take different paths to the same destination.

a reply to: eletheia

There are no rules if they can be selectively broken. All you have is a list of actions and behaviors that can be used for manipulation and control.

If rules are not enforced equally, then all the rules are suspect, and can all be equally broken.

Of course there could be extenuating circumstances that were not made known, that would adequately explain the schools actions, and I am sure they have no problem explaining those reasons to the other children, expected to adhere to these Ru!es, and their parents.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I didn't feel critized by you. The suggestion is rational. If I was in the States, I would have done exactly that.

But then, the guy would not be yelling out through the place and laughing about it if it was there.

There are no rules if they can be selectively broken. All you have is a list of actions and behaviors that can be used for manipulation and control.

If rules are not enforced equally, then all the rules are suspect, and can all be equally broken.

This risks going off topic too much.... but that is exactly right, and the thing is, that is how most french people like it - if it is possible to bend the rules, then I can bend the rules. You just have to be smart. It is only the stupid who follow all the rules without question.

This is where being overly moralistic is seen as lacking intelligence.

But that is part of why it bothers them so much to see the arabs getting away with more- it is not so much a question of justice (asit would be for me) but it makes them feel stupid in comparision.

This is why the guy I worked with bragged, and why he was admired by the others. He found a way to beat the system.
This is where I often write the two cultures have that in common.

a reply to: Bluesma

That is why I try to live by my signature mottos.

Dual lessons of life: 1. You never allow anyone to define you. 2. You teach people how to treat you.

originally posted by: [post=19954402]Bluesma


[Ghettos successfully keep people from integrating with the rest of the local population, and force them to keep to themselves ]



Especially in America, where they are so used to seeing immigrants come there with their eyes full of living the American Dream- where a man can start off with nothing, and if he is smart or hardworking enough, can end up rich. They want to assimilate. They want part of the system. That's why they came there.

This is not the case over here with the arabs.

This is incorrect. Not an opinion or a political view, but just plain history.

Of course the Millions of Immigrants from Germany, Ireland and Asia during the 1800's collected in Ghettos.

It is why we have Chinatown(s), Germantown(s), Little Italy(s) and place like "Five Points" slum/ghetto in NYC for the Irish.

Migrants congregating in one place in a new country is an immediate survival strategy and integration and assimilation is the longer-term survival strategy.

The concept that the Irish in America for example "wanted to assimilate" is accurate...as is the reality that there were folks just like yourself who claimed the "Irish" were different and would never assimilate.



Honestly...part of me finds nothing interesting in these debates because they have been precisely had before...History has repeatedly shown the outcome.

Mass immigration waves due to Economics, Famine and War...

The claims be large segments of the native populations that some particular culture is by it's very nature unable to assimilate...they are criminals, murderers, will steal jobs and out-breed natives...

Ghetto's cited as proof..

Followed by assimilation..

Then maybe in a hundred years a great-grandchild...half German, half Irish...shouts about how "those people" now immigrating are "different" and will never assimilate, cuz they are "Roman Catholic"...oh, I mean..."Muslim"...

And somewhere the ancestors of that xenophobe who endured the same ignorant, intolerant hatred is rolling over in their grave.

Frankly...this nonsense has been done before...nothing insightful or new about this...same as it ever was.

False Flag

a reply to: Indigo5

www.nytimes.com...

Not to cause thread drift, but it doesn't always work out as well as you suggest.

This is just one of many. Pine Ridge is just closest to my heart at the moment because I have friends and family friends living in the heart of this.

Pine Ridge Indian Reservation

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Indigo5

www.nytimes.com...

Not to cause thread drift, but it doesn't always work out as well as you suggest.

This is just one of many. Pine Ridge is just closest to my heart at the moment because I have friends and family friends living in the heart of this.

Pine Ridge Indian Reservation

Tragic for sure...But the Native American experience is different in a thousand ways from Immigration/Migration.

They suffered in a uniquely horrible way and their isolation was forced by government. More like slow motion concentration camps and culturally they continue to suffer for it. In retrospect they should have been left alone to assimilate as they saw fit, but what happened was a choice between forced "Whitening" abolishing all culture and language or forced concentration and isolation on reservations. An utter and complete lack of tolerance by the US government decimated that noble culture.

Here are some pictures of "forced whitening" of Native Americans that will break your heart.
www.radiolab.org...

a reply to: FlySolo

Austerity cuts for ages and now they promote 'private security' agencies. I see a neoliberal agenda unfolding here.

I know some of their 'no-go-areas' myself. I actually happen to life in one, without any incident in the last 3 years whatsoever. *knock on wood*

“This negligence has, over the years, enabled the emergence of a criminal parallel society. This would not have happened if the authorities had acted early and decisively: As early as 2004, a Commission of the Federal Criminal Police (BKA) warned that the ethnic groups were out of control and also warned about the so-called Mhallamiye-Kurds [an Arab-speaking ethnic group with roots in southern Anatolia], including the Bremen-based clan known as Family M.

www.breakingisraelnews.com...

We see the consequence of corruption here, org. crime grew stronger and police weaker. The solution will not be to lable areas 'no-go-zones', but rather to spend enough on prosecution and crap the BS (like criminalizing cannabis).

This video is made by a young Swedish male, who is obviously very sarcastic and angry. His sarcasm can actually be a little comical at times so it's entertaining.

But I'm putting it here because of newspaper clips, the attitude of Swedish government officials toward immigration, and their general feelings about it. Other than this young man, he makes a point that most Swedes want this immigration, and don't mind the country becoming Muslim. So, I don 't think I will be concerned about Sweden anymore. If this is what they want, then they should have it. Bear in mind this guy is mocking the officials and the papers, but listen to what they say. Do you get the same impression?

a reply to: Indigo5

Tragic for sure...But the Native American experience is different in a thousand ways from Immigration/Migration.

Why, because they were the hosts instead of the immigrants/migrants?

I do believe there can be a comparison made, and I hope some areas will not find themselves in the same situation as the Native Americans.

You don't have to go that far back, my dear friend, she is only 35 years old, born on the Reservation, the first day of school run by the Catholic nuns, the first thing they did was cut off all their hair. They said it was to avoid distraction from God and to avoid vanity. This was the same thing they did to my grandmother in 1901, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are still doing the same thing today.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Indigo5

Tragic for sure...But the Native American experience is different in a thousand ways from Immigration/Migration.

Why, because they were the hosts instead of the immigrants/migrants?

I clarified why, thus I consider you response intentionally rhetorical? The worlds leading Nation Empire conquering and colonizing primitive tribal lands of technically primitive people via military force is not a refugee crisis, nor "immigration".

Frankly it is offensive to Native Americans to compare the two.

So...the USA survived the Millions of German and Irish immigrants in the 1800's ...Where the Native Americans were incapable of dealing with similar "Immigration"??? Jesus...are you telling me that the colonization of North America and wars with the native Americans, forced relocation and concentration etc...Is the same as when the Irish or Germans arrived???

Had my fill of crazy-time for today...