The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes, We do. You'll get no complaints from me about removing the Christmas tree from the White House.

Why don't you start a movement?

How bout we both start a movement taking Christmas holiday pay from federal employees?
We can't have a payed day off for a religious holiday.
Separation of church and state and what not.

Sounds fine to me; I'm in favor of the Constitution.

Why don't you do that, if you feel strongly about it?

Why not? Good idea actually.

Since the government is forcing employers to do all kinds of things,
they can make it a law.

No more federal, local, or state holiday or any business holiday
for Christmas. Just allow people one day a year for any holiday
of their choice.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes, We do. You'll get no complaints from me about removing the Christmas tree from the White House.

Why don't you start a movement?

How bout we both start a movement taking Christmas holiday pay from federal employees?
We can't have a payed day off for a religious holiday.
Separation of church and state and what not.

Sounds fine to me; I'm in favor of the Constitution.

Why don't you do that, if you feel strongly about it?

I don't feel strongly about it remember? I'm ok with both. I'm only saying you can't have one without the other.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes but what is the difference between the White House and a school or any other government building? The White House is the Presidents home and the constitution cannot tell a person they cannot decorate their home for Christmas.

Even as a progressive socialist I do become Scrooge at Christmas...

I think it's a heinous indictment of corporatocracy.

Turkey.
Ick.

Sprouts.
Yucky.

Presents.
Bahumbug.

The music.
Eurgh.

As a former Catholic, I like grandma, always thought it was a disgusting faith hijack.

As for the Nativity, public school isn't the best place for it.
Fun to participate in.

But totally irrelevant, false and ultimately pointless in your face BS.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The ACLU is not a representative of the United States, any State, or any municipality, as far as I am aware.

You mentioned those in support of unconstitutional actions. Is attempting to prohibit the free exercise of religion not an unconstitutional action?

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes, We do. You'll get no complaints from me about removing the Christmas tree from the White House.

Why don't you start a movement?

How bout we both start a movement taking Christmas holiday pay from federal employees?
We can't have a payed day off for a religious holiday.
Separation of church and state and what not.

Sounds fine to me; I'm in favor of the Constitution.

Why don't you do that, if you feel strongly about it?

I don't feel strongly about it remember? I'm ok with both. I'm only saying you can't have one without the other.

You're taking issue with people who are taking action based on their strong belief.

I was merely suggesting that you do likewise. Our bickering about the issue here will do little to change things.

Best.

originally posted by: Gothmog
How is it "forced on you" . You have the right not to frequent stores , etc. No one "forces" you

If you attend Concord High School in Elkhart Indiana it's being forced on you.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Who or what is prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Irrelevant. Government taxes are still paying for it. The taxpayers are paying for lights, janitors and for the clean up and set up of the scenes.

And they would be paying the same amount if the play was about romeo and Juliette.

What religion is Romeo and Juliette about?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Who or what is prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

As I said in an earlier post:

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
The "War on Christmas" = "If I am not permitted to do anything I want, anywhere I want, anytime I want, you are waging WAR against me!"

It's the same mindset that Kim Davis has. "If I can't do whatever I want (under the guise of "freedom of religion", it's persecution of me and my religious freedom"!

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Irrelevant. Government taxes are still paying for it. The taxpayers are paying for lights, janitors and for the clean up and set up of the scenes.

And they would be paying the same amount if the play was about romeo and Juliette.

What religion is Romeo and Juliette about?

Does the subject matter of the play have anything to do with the cost of the play? The school and the public will be paying the same amount of money for the production.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Because it is inappropriate and violates Separation of Church and State.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Who or what is prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

As I said in an earlier post:

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
The "War on Christmas" = "If I am not permitted to do anything I want, anywhere I want, anytime I want, you are waging WAR against me!"

It's the same mindset that Kim Davis has. "If I can't do whatever I want (under the guise of "freedom of religion", it's persecution of me and my religious freedom"!

But yet, a Christian
and truly a large number of Christians
agree with abolishing Christmas
the way it stands now.

Even the Pagens who had trees were
worshiping Gods and Goddesses,
all of the roots of the current
Christmas celebration lead back
to religion, be it Christian or Pagen
they all lead back to religion.

So I have no problem taking trees
and all religious symbols out of
the public arena,
even lights are symbols of sun gods,
or the son God,
they too must go as symbols of religion.

Yes, I as a Christian am waging a war
on Christmas because of all the reasons
stated earlier in this thread.

My war is one of spreading the reality
of the perversion, greed, and
corporate stealing from the masses,
that Christians thought represented
Christ birth, but they are wrong,
In my opinion Christ is disgusted entirely
with what Christmas has become.

Actually, it's an interesting constitutional argument that a nativity reenactment is technically a historical play (fiction or non-fiction, depending upon your personal beliefs) and, as such, is protected as freedom of artistic expression.

The physical construction of a manger and the display of designed costumed characters...as well as the actor's individual performances, ... might, legally, represent an individual artist's own artistic interpretation of a fictional or non-fictional story (depending upon the viewer's individual interpretation of it's true meaning).

Could it also be argued that ANY play, book, artwork, or performance piece which deals with ANY aspect of ANY religion (fiction or non-fiction) should never be taught or displayed in any public school...or housed within any public school library?

For that matter, should ANY painting which has a religious theme, be displayed in ANY Public Art Museum?

Is ART, itself, in danger of becoming unconstitutional?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: grandmakdw

Because it is inappropriate and violates Separation of Church and State.

And "holiday" trees that are a symbol of
either Pagen religion, the worship
of Gods and Godesses,
or of Christianity, however you choose to
see it also violate separation of Church and State.

And "holiday" lights that are a symbol of
Pagen sun gods,
and Christian son god,
are also violating separation of Church and State.

Cities who are part of State should
remove them as they are symbols of
religion. All part of the separation of
Church and State.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Exactly, as decided in Reynolds v. United States (1878) (despite later attempts to muddle the issue).

a reply to: grandmakdw

The pagan roots for Christmas trees, lights, wreaths, giving presents, and all the other non-Christian parts of the holiday are largely lost on most people and many don't even know that history. Just because those symbols were religious in the past doesn't mean they are religious now.

Find me someone who practices this religious practice still and you may have a point:
8 Ways Magic Mushrooms Explain Santa Story

1. Arctic shamans gave out mushrooms on the winter solstice.

According to the theory, the legend of Santa derives from shamans in the Siberian and Arctic regions who dropped into locals' teepeelike homes with a bag full of hallucinogenic mushrooms as presents in late December, Rush said.

"As the story goes, up until a few hundred years ago, these practicing shamans or priests connected to the older traditions would collect Amanita muscaria (the Holy Mushroom), dry them and then give them as gifts on the winter solstice," Rush told LiveScience in an email. "Because snow is usually blocking doors, there was an opening in the roof through which people entered and exited, thus the chimney story."

a reply to: IAMTAT

The Nativity scene is a recognized part of the ritual of Christmas, which is part of the Christian religion.

One Early Nativity scene from Holy Trinity Church, orig. 14th Century

Trying to assert that a nativity scene is anything else besides religious iconography is specious, as well as a blatant denial of truth.

Why do you want to deny the truth to deny others their religious freedom?

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Ban public expressions of Christmas, I'm all for it.
Ban stores from insulting or hurting the feelings of
non-Christians with displays, great.
Ban all cities from creating Christmas displays,
wonderful.
Forbid all public acknowledgement of Christmas,
to keep from hurting people's feelings who
aren't Christians, love it.

See, this represents a typical and major misunderstanding of the issue (whether you're serious or not.)

Nobody wants to "forbid all public acknowledgement of Christmas." Nobody wants to ban stores or anyone else in the private sector from having Christmas displays. This isn't about protecting anyone's "hurt feelings."

The issue is the government participating in and conducting religious ritual which invariably leads to people being pressured to join in. This is to protect the right of conscience of all people of faith including Christians.

So I guess you think our lives would be better if we could just focus on the few times of the year that bring mass happiness and then remove those times while claiming that it is American to be a scrooge.


Go back to sleep everyone cause there is no war on Christianity.