Michigan woman with concealed carry permit opens fire at alleged Home Depot shoplifters

originally posted by: babybunnies

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Yikes. Well don't steal watermelons! At least it was only buckshot.

Closest I ever came was getting caught in a cross-fire in NYC while we were driving down a street. We not only hit the floor but burrowed into the car carpet. Scary stuff.

Only in the USA can someone refer to the time that they got caught in the crossfire with such nonchalance.

Americans say that "There is nothing that can be done about gun violence" while ignoring the fact that they are one of the only countries on the planet that has a right to bear arms, and one of the only countries on the planet with a repeat mass murder problem.

"Nothing can be done about this"? How about whatever ALL the other countries are doing to stop this, successfully. Answer - GUN CONTROL. IT WORKS. EVERYWHERE.

I am not going to disagree with you, but America has this crazy gun subculture. Banning guns in America will not work, and in fact, would be a disaster with a lot of dead folks. Most American gun owners are responsible individuals, the ones we read and hear about are the not so responsible ones. We need to take guns out of the hands of medically ill, the domestic abusers, and we need to close the private sale loophole.

Training will only go so far...


For the nutjobs with a gun it'd just leave the better prepared to take a life...

Let's be thankful this arsehole was never trained on how to aim or we'd be talking about a dead shoplifter stripped of the 6th Amendment.

originally posted by: babybunnies

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Yikes. Well don't steal watermelons! At least it was only buckshot.

Closest I ever came was getting caught in a cross-fire in NYC while we were driving down a street. We not only hit the floor but burrowed into the car carpet. Scary stuff.

Only in the USA can someone refer to the time that they got caught in the crossfire with such nonchalance.

Americans say that "There is nothing that can be done about gun violence" while ignoring the fact that they are one of the only countries on the planet that has a right to bear arms, and one of the only countries on the planet with a repeat mass murder problem.

"Nothing can be done about this"? How about whatever ALL the other countries are doing to stop this, successfully. Answer - GUN CONTROL. IT WORKS. EVERYWHERE.

As Americans we live in a gun culture, has been a gun culture since 1620. We took this nation by guns, held slaves by guns, it is a gun culture. You live your life in fear, or you are prepared to meet the other side, I am 25 years past meeting the other side, never expected to make it past 30.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Unfortunately there is one group who will just say "shall not be infringed". So it is impossible to even debate some.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Unfortunately there is one group who will just say "shall not be infringed". So it is impossible to even debate some.

I will agree and they say a whole lot more stuff, most of the irresponsible gun owning NRA members are racists asshats, and that is only based on my own opinions.

a reply to: boymonkey74


Actually our Constitution says a well regulated militia shall not be infringed. The second amendment dudes, forget the part about a well regulated militia, but they damn well support the constitution, especially the 14th amendment.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Bangin' away at shoplifters, Blam, Blam, ping, pweeee!
Erm, a firearms permit is not a license to kill.

Agreed. She should lose her permit and be charged with a felony. Reckless endangerment, etc.
She felt that her carry license empowered her above ordinary folks, and it gave her more authority than other people. Her actions illustrate this.

What an incredibly dangerous and stupid assed woman.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Bangin' away at shoplifters, Blam, Blam, ping, pweeee!
Erm, a firearms permit is not a license to kill.

Agreed. She should lose her permit and be charged with a felony. Reckless endangerment, etc.
She felt that her carry license empowered her above ordinary folks, and it gave her more authority than other people. Her actions illustrate this.

What an incredibly dangerous and stupid assed woman.

I would whole heartedly agree with you.

a reply to: babybunnies

Oh that wasn't nonchalance. It was scary as hell and also about three decades ago.

ETA: It was the police and bank robbers shooting at each other, and it was probably only about 10 shots but felt like hundreds.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: babybunnies

Oh that wasn't nonchalance. It was scary as hell and also about three decades ago.

ETA: It was the police and bank robbers shooting at each other, and it was probably only about 10 shots but felt like hundreds.

Oh crap hun, would readily wrap my arms around ya for protection.

a reply to: babybunnies

BB - This is not a personal attack on you, but I'm picking your post to reply to as it raised many of the points being discussed in this thread and a few of them need to be addressed...

I don't care if you do have an open carry permit.

The parking lot vigilante in this story had a concealed carry permit. Twenty five states that allow open carry do not require permits - often referred to as "constitutional carry". Michigan is one of them, but according to the article she had an actual concealed carry permit. They're not hard to come by there as it is a "shall issue" state.

Having a gun NEVER gives you permission to dole out vigilante justice.

AGREED! Carrying a handgun, concealed or open, is a heavy responsibility but it never gives you carte blanche to dole out justice. In my state, as in most, there must be an immediate threat of grave bodily harm to yourself, your family or another person before you can deploy lethal force to stop said threat. Once the threat is mitigated, your lawful right to lethal force is also gone. This woman was not threatened at all and recklessly fired at a moving vehicle that was leaving the area. Its the equivalent of shooting a mugger in the back while he's running away with your wallet. Only in this case, it was someone else's "wallet".

Gun owners claim to love the Constitution, but seem to think that they can dole out justice that they see fit without the benefit of a fair trial, and think they can enforce laws that simply don't exist just by showing up with their gun.

It isn't fair to say that all, or even a majority of, gun owners fall into this category. By and large most are very aware of the responsibilities that go with owning a firearm of any sort. We have to be - there are too many laws that you can run afoul of and loose your rights, liberties, or both. How often do you see stories where-in a licensed carrier "doles out justice"? They are rare. Instances of law-abiding citizens defending themselves against harm are significantly more common and that does not fall under doling out justice. That's self defense and it is a universal right. Speaking for myself only now, I know I'm not a hero, a soldier or a cop and I don't enforce any laws by way of having a carry permit. I'm just a family man that refuses to be a victim.

If a bad person means to do me harm, sorry, but we're not going to wait around for a criminal court to tell them it was a bad decision. No time for a fair trial in that situation - Immediate threats require immediate action. The reality is that should I ever need to deploy lethal force, I had better be 100% confident that the DA, a judge and the jury all agree that my actions were justified. Otherwise, I'm off to the gray bar hotel. As this woman should be.

Charge this woman with assault (even if the intention was good, she still shot someone) and set an example.

Assault? She should be charged with attempted homicide, brandishing, unlawful discharge and anything else that can be thrown at her. This was an idiotic thing to do. Was she in danger? No. Did she have a duty to protect Home Depot's corporate assets? No. If she honestly thought that a shoplifter, running from loss prevention, presented a deadly threat then she needs to be put away before she kills someone for having too many items in the grocery express lane. Besides, prison will likely allow her to experience real threats. Perhaps she'll learn something.

There's so much fail here on her part it isn't even funny.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What if she had just screamed and hollered? Would this be "news"? What if it was "leos" dumping rounds? That would be okay right? Because they're authorized! Are you mad at her? Or the gun? You people crack me up!

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Really, she's an idiot, but maybe, just maybe, she got her motivation from those cops that blew up a house to catch an attempted shoplifter?

Even if so, she's still an idiot. Unless they were trying to run someone down, she had no justification.

a reply to: vonclod

Good! You get it! Remember that and run it through your little head, over and over.... It'll keep you on the straight and narrow.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: murphy22

What's everyone upset about? A woman shot a gun at someone for freaking shoplifting in a crowded store. She could have injured or killed someone other than the shoplifter with her blinding stupidity.

That's not at all what happened. But charge her.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I'll take felony charges for 2-5 years Alex...

Michigan is a duty to retreat state. If the person with the gun, actually anyone armed or not, can safely withdraw they are required to do so. They can defend 3rd parties however in this case it doesn't look like a 3rd party was in danger.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
a reply to: boymonkey74


Actually our Constitution says a well regulated militia shall not be infringed. The second amendment dudes, forget the part about a well regulated militia, but they damn well support the constitution, especially the 14th amendment.

And other "dudes" have no idea what the terms in the constitution meant at the time they were written. So then they apply 20th and 21st century definitions to it and giggle to themselves about how the pro-2nd crowd ignores what the amendment says.

Pro-tip: we don't, there's just no point in arguing with people like you when you're completely ignorant about the very words you're giggling about

a reply to: ~Lucidity

The problem with the story is that the suspect was never taken and supposedly fleet the scene of the supposedly crime and has nobody have seen him, police is asking for witnesses, without the suspect it can not be chargers

As a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment and concealed carry, I say............throw her crazy a$$ in jail. Concealed carry is to protect yourself or others from immediate harm, not to stop a shoplifter, much less one that is speeding away in their car. At the very least, take her weapon, revoke her permit and make her retake the course, this time actually paying attention to the part about when NOT to use it.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
a reply to: boymonkey74


Actually our Constitution says a well regulated militia shall not be infringed. The second amendment dudes, forget the part about a well regulated militia, but they damn well support the constitution, especially the 14th amendment.

And other "dudes" have no idea what the terms in the constitution meant at the time they were written. So then they apply 20th and 21st century definitions to it and giggle to themselves about how the pro-2nd crowd ignores what the amendment says.

Pro-tip: we don't, there's just no point in arguing with people like you when you're completely ignorant about the very words you're giggling about

Interesting, there was no giggling going on when I typed that, and somehow, even being completely ignorant, I have studied American History for a very long time. When you decide to stop believing the NRA's revisionist version of history, maybe then a honest conversation can be started. And no the USA is not a Christian nation.