Cybertroy,

No insult was meant. The point I was trying to make, and not very well, by your reaction, was that Ron researched many things during his time, and Dianetics, IMHO, happens to be a combination of many different techniques used over the years by many different groups. I didn't mean that it was a mish-mash of ideas; rather that it was an amalgamation of many things of value from different areas, combined into one philosophy. Sort of like picking out the parts that worked, and discarding what he felt was valueless.

I never said it was without a point. What I said is that he probably intended to make money off his book. Is that so unreasonable? After all, he was already a well-published author by that time. And for the fact that he wrote sci-fi, I think it is relevant because most sci-fi writers are going to study religions and things like that, for research, and are very good at weaving things together to make new connections others haven't yet. It's their job.

Yes, I have read some of the books, as I told you before. I quite simply, am looking at them from a different viewpoint than you.

One thing I noticed in your message though, you forgot to use your own methods in dealing with this situation. You see, you misunderstood my communication. Nothing wrong with that, happens all the time. But instead of probing further to see if there was a miscommunication, and trying to gain understanding, you instead jumped to the conclusion I was slamming Scientology. Please reread the first 5 pages of this thread, and realize that I have said nothing against Scientology, only the church.

What was it Azeari said, 'the enemy behind every bush mentality'? If you had wanted clarification of my statement, you could have just asked, as I have when I needed it.


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Duzey]

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Duzey]

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Duzey]

DUZEY
Looking at it from a different angle, by not wanting these people in and giving them a chance to overcome their preconceptions, the church is kind of slowing themselves down.
TERRIL
Hubbard often gave advice that seems contradictory. He laid down policy that the subject should be inclusive of people. Not exclude them.
The categories excluded in the policy I mentioned are mostly types most would want to exclude. Criminals, those who have attacked the organisation and so on. Personally I can think with both these apparently opposing ideas and find them compatible. However the COS tends to be somewhat paranoid. It does regard it self as beleagured and surrounded by enemies. But then their is policy that says when INTERPRETING policy, always interpret in the direction of expansion. I don't think one is allowed to do any interpreting now days.

As an example, the occasion that made me leave the organisation
was the last auditing I had at St. Hill in UK. I was doing an action to establish whether I had reached the levelf Clear at the time. During this they gave me one of these checks, A-J for illegal clients. I used to work in that part of the organisation that used to check people for that. So I understood fully what was going on, and was in shock and dis-belief. At that time I had been a member of 25 years in good standing. That policy is not supposed to be used for such people.

Then there was the paranoia of anyone who'd ever had psychiatric treatment or anything like it. I next had a security check to see if I'd been given pain, drug, hypnosis . ( Like the Manchurian Candidate) This was in regard to the occasion when my mother took me to see a child psychologist
because I was "Naughty" ( high- spirited ) I was 3 years old at the time.

This sort of "auditing" was not what I joined the COS for.

DUZEY
I may be completely off base, but aren't levels 9 - 11 going to remain unreleased until the church goes through a rather large 'recruitment' phase?
I had heard that the levels won't be released until the missions are all as big as St Hill (UK or US???) back in the eighties.
TERRIL
Thats correct. St Hill UK. These are upper levels 9 and upwards. They will be available in the Freezone.

Originally posted by Terril Park
Thats correct. St Hill UK. These are upper levels 9 and upwards. They will be available in the Freezone.

First, thanks for confirming this for me. Always good to double-check your facts.

Your statement right after has my mind spinning with the implications of this. Are you stating that the levels 9+, while not available in the church, will be made available to those OT8??'s who are ready in the fz? If so, wow. That's a story I would love to hear, but I understand why I probably won't. They are copyrighted works.

It's ridiculous to use a rewritten reg to kick out a member in good-standing, especially one who is just going clear. You've already progressed through almost 4 levels, if something was going to happen, it would have by then.

Whoever just wrote in here that a Baptist minister was involved in Scientology and was still a minister is full of crap. Scientology is clearly a false religion as described by the Bible which is the holy infalible word of GOD. Scientology is just another attempt at people trying to feel better about the bad evil things that they do on a daily basis. Whatever happened to good old fashioned accountability. Scientology appears to take that accountability away. I read my Bible, and believe every word in it. I feel sorry for the fruits that believe otherwise.

Originally posted by skychief
It's always a shame to see one mans vision distorted and manipulated by others for personal gain.

...take a look at Jesus...

Originally posted by deesw
Whoever just wrote in here that a Baptist minister was involved in Scientology and was still a minister is full of crap.

Well no, actually. That is a false piece of data. I have seen it myself.

Scientology is clearly a false religion as described by the Bible which is the holy infalible word of GOD.

Look, go ahead and believe in your religion. That's perfectly fine. But don't go around calling other people's religions false. It's annoying and makes you seem ignorant (which I'm sure you're not).

Scientology is just another attempt at people trying to feel better about the bad evil things that they do on a daily basis.

Actually, Scientology explains why people do bad things and corrects it.

Whatever happened to good old fashioned accountability. Scientology appears to take that accountability away.

Huh? I must have missed something there... If you mean that we don't blame things on the devil, well I suppose you're right. Scientologists (and lots of other people) are big on personal accountability.

I read my Bible, and believe every word in it.

Go for it!

I feel sorry for the fruits that believe otherwise.

And us "fruits" feel sorry for you, too.

Duzey,

Thanks for explaining. Good thing about communication, you can work through misunderstandings.

To the Christian lady, by all means, have your beliefs, go to church. Believing in god is a good thing. There are those who will tell you there isn't a god. I say, absolutely, there is a god. Scientologists do believe in the creator.

Well guys it's been an experience with this topic. Lots to think about.

If anyone is curious, pick up a copy of Dianetics, or one of the other books, like "Self Analyses". The books won't bite and you just might find something you have been looking for.

Peace and love,

Troy

Thanks for the info Terril! I wish I could attend to get an idea of what the "freezone" has to offer but unfortunately, I'm about 1500 miles from you. Keep us updated and let us know how it went.

I looked into Scientology but stopped once I realized that it is about setting oneself before God. The whole religion seems to be founded upon the premise that we are our own "creators" or Gods. In this way, Scientology seems to condone self-worship which I believe is wrong.

Of course, they will go on and on about how to suppress one's ego, but then they come along and contradict the suppression by saying you are your own 'creator'. Scientology is basically existentialism, which is typically athiestic. Existentialism states that there is no God which means that humans are a product of our environment or nature. Since there is no God to explain our purpose, then we are born without a purpose which enables us to have complete freedom to conceive or create our own purpose. They will refer to a higher power but only when they reach the limits of what science and physics can explain. Here again, they contradict their existentialist views with the acceptance of a higher power. The premise of Scientology doesn't pan out. They accept or reject whatever does or doesn't meet thier financial goals.
The fact that it promotes self-worship probably appeals to men like Travolta and Cruise, who are in reality worshiped, and, therefore, probably believe they are worthy of worship, from both within and without.




[edit on 24-2-2005 by checkers]

You can create your own destiny. I think that is a good thing.

I may have gained self confidence, but I didn't worship myself. Scientology does support the idea of a creator. You will find a lot about creation in its texts.

Troy