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What is with Scientology?

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posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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I found this site while researching various religions. I have no way of verifying if the information as accurate, could even be a spoof, but I found it interesting none the less. I hope to hear from more that have any info on this subject.
I have always looked at the church of Scientology as strange and wandered how they were able to garner so many members, let alone big name members such as John Travolta and Tom Cruise. I remember about fifteen years back buying a copy of Dianetics because they promoted self help. I figured, what the hell, that sounds like something interesting. The book came across as sounding pretty logical, and helpful, that is until it got to the part explaining what is causing the ills of the human race. It seems that they believe that we are “possessed by ancient aliens” and that we need to in a sense exorcise these aliens in order to be free and reach happiness. It was at this point that I laughed out loud and kept on reading. I honestly took this book as a joke, because at the time, I had no idea that this was an organized religion with many members. When I began seeing so many people supporting this religion it actually alarmed me to believe that these people bought into this whole heartedly. Now, I know there will be many that will say the same things about Christians or Muslims but at least they have some sort of historical record of their prophets. Scientology was created a few decades ago, by L Ron Hubbard, who supposedly abused drugs and was pretty much over the edge. What gets me though is that this man was so mysterious and preached such over the top rhetoric but still managed to get thousands of devout followers. I’m sure that there have been plenty of discussions, on ATS, about the Scientologists but I found this latest story to be rather interesting. It seems that this church has a navy which makes Scientology even stranger.

www.xenu.net...




posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 04:59 AM
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I know the xenu.net website. Even if it's very critical about Scientology and sometimes has a very heavy hand on it, most of the informations contained in it are real, as have been proved by investigations around the world.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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Here's a link that you might find interesting, looks at the Scientology issue from a different perspective....basically a diverse coaltion of people who have taken the "good stuff" (what actually works) out and discarded the rest.

As for xenu.net: it's not a spoof - the information is generally considered accurate albeit very one-sided.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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TERRIL PARK
First Xenu, NET is the most prominent critical site of COS. There is much there that is valid. The court reports,and affidavits of various peole including ex members of high administrative rank for example. Other things, and opinions stated are less valid.

SKYCHIEF said,
I remember about fifteen years back buying a copy of Dianetics because they promoted self help. I figured, what the hell, that sounds like something interesting. The book came across as sounding pretty logical, and helpful, that is until it got to the part explaining what is causing the ills of the human race. It seems that they believe that we are “possessed by ancient aliens”
TERRIL PARK
Dianetics Modern Science of Mental Health says that the source of ills is the "Engram". A recording of a moment of pain and unconcsiousness. If you wish a traumatic incident.

The ideas of problems with other beings is way much later in the development of scientology technology. If one assumes that a being is spiritual ( non material) in nature, and lives over a very long time, one might imagine he gets affected by other such beings. One may wish to handle such
problems thereby caused. One may also consider that something spiritual in nature may have the capacity to in some way,or potentially to be in contact
with the "spiritual universe"
SKYCHIEF
and that we need to in a sense exorcise these aliens in order to be free and reach happiness. It was at this point that I laughed out loud and kept on reading.
TP
Indeed it seems very unlikely. However having done some of these upper levels, I've found they work. I'm still open minded about the cosmology.
SC
I honestly took this book as a joke,
TP
You are mixing the book up with later data. Possibly a mix of early reading,with later critical input?
SC
What gets me though is that this man was so mysterious and preached such over the top rhetoric but still managed to get thousands of devout followers. I’m sure that there have been plenty of discussions, on ATS, about the Scientologists but I found this latest story to be rather interesting.
TP
He was brilliant. If you are wishing to follow a path of spiritual progress
he is worth reading.
SC
It seems that this church has a navy which makes Scientology even stranger.
TP.
Its now a land based "Navy" The "Sea Organisation". There is much strange in this organisation, and in the writings and teachings of LRH.

Those who like to use these teachings find them useful, often plain commen sense, and workable. YMMV.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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Check the ATS search on this, as there are some good threads on it. I myself happen to work in Scientology central pretty much, hehe... (Clearwater, FL), but I won't type all of that again...
Check those threads....



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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Gazrok, I did search but really didn't find anything on this supposed navy of the COS. I guess no one should really be surprised by anything that was related to LRH as it almost seems that he "lost-it" as he got older.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Terril Park
Those who like to use these teachings find them useful, often plain commen sense, and workable. YMMV.



I guess the teachings on self help could be useful. If you look at these engrams as being a negative part of ones self and not ancient alien spirits then you could probably do a lot of good. I can see why so many believe in this process as it is essentially taking charge of ones self. Hubbard saddly though, put a dark cloud over the COS by his ramblings in his latter years.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Gazrok, I did search but really didn't find anything on this supposed navy of the COS. I guess no one should really be surprised by anything that was related to LRH as it almost seems that he "lost-it" as he got older.


Ahh, I was going by the title, and skimming your post...didn't see the bit about a "navy"...my apologies.

I'm not so sure I go for this idea of engrams during unconscious moments though...nor the idea of becoming "clear" and of course only doing so through Dianetic classes. Then of course, you've got those who blend in the sci-fi with the "religion", who then REALLY go off the deep end...



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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If what an "engram" is, is the moment of soul fragmentation during stress--then some organized ways to exorcise that terror would be very useful.

Also, realizing that Scientology is financially very exploitative, it teaches its members to manifest prosperity by giving. That is also useful.

But, I don't know about this Navy stuff. Maybe that was just a game they play.

[shrugs and waddles off ...]



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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I know 1 of these is fact and true not sure which 1 though

Tom Cruise is the head now of Scientology?

or he is at is highest stage in it and is key spokes person for them as well as other top legend actors


and i also found out a basic session at the very earliest level cost 1000 US dollers an hour and that at tom cruise's level its around 100k to 150k US dollers an hour session



Thats some serious bread



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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I don't believe Tom Cruise is the "head"...if so, he's definitely not the official one. (The official head is David Miscaviage...) Cruise is likely to be well on his way across the Bridge (their terminology for the Path to Enlightenment), though.

I imagine that celebrities have a different experience at these churches than us mere mortals! (There are entire centers dedicated soley to celebrities in many major cities, including LA...)

You're probably not far out on the money angle. Of course, the initial courses are much cheaper. One viewpoint is that this is simply a ploy to get you hooked; the other is that the more advanced sessions cost so much because they're worth it. Also, the theory goes that by the time a person was ready for such levels, they would already be so much more able that aquiring the money would be no big deal. (btw, Hubbards ideas on money are actually very sensible...that money just represents an exchange, which everyone "knows" but still alot of other strange significances get attached to it...)

In any case, there is Another Way. Just Google: Hubbard + Freezone...



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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SKYCHIEF
I guess the teachings on self help could be useful. If you look at these engrams as being a negative part of ones self and not ancient alien spirits then you could probably do a lot of good. I can see why so many believe in this process as it is essentially taking charge of ones self.
TERRIL PARK
Thats what Dianetics/scientology is about. You could read the Ist Dianetics book, " Dianetics modern science of mental Health" get a friend to read it and co-process each other. For the cost of a book if you don't have your copy still. I think a copy may still be on e-bay for 95 cents.


I'm part of the Independant or "Freezone" scientology movement. We
hope to do a correspondance course based on that book very soon.

www.freewebs.com...



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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It's easy to get confused on the internet about organizations. I have worked for the Church of Scientology. Nope, Tom Cruise isn't a leader, he's an actor who happens to be involved in Scientology. Same thing with John Travolta. I think Travolta knows that being involved with Scientology has helped him with his carreer. The alien thing is kind of funny, not sure where this odd information was gotten from. Scientology does not have a Navy. There is one part of the organization which has services on a ship. It's a good place to get away from the stress of the world, and recieve Scientology services.

Don't believe the odd rumors, Scientologist are very hard working and dedicated people who are helping the people of this world. Scientology is invloved with things like helping to get kids off of drugs, helping the literacy level of people, etc. They work very hard to free people of the problems that hold them down. Some of my best years were spent working with these people.

You will find the answers you need at www.scientology.org .

Much love,
Troy



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by cybertroy
Don't believe the odd rumors, Scientologist are very hard working and dedicated people who are helping the people of this world. Scientology is invloved with things like helping to get kids off of drugs, helping the literacy level of people, etc. They work very hard to free people of the problems that hold them down.


While I would agree that the average Scientologist is probably a very hard working and dedicated person concerned about literacy and getting kids off drugs, these are not the reasons why the Co$ runs these programs. It is about money, signing people up, getting them into the program. That, and good PR. And when I say the church, I mean Miscavige and Co.

As for the opposition to psychiatry/psychology, that doesn't really show me that the church wants to help the world be a better place. Yes, I think EST, involuntary commitment, forced drugging and lobotomies are pretty unpleasant things (I saw One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest too), but that doesn't mean it should be totally abolished. By denying that there can be a problem that the tech can't fix, the church is the one endangering people's lives *cough*Lisa McPherson*cough*, not the mental health professionals, as the church professes:


By the Creed of the Church of Scientology, the healing of mentally caused ills should not be condoned in nonreligious fields. The reason for this is that violent psychiatric therapies cause spiritual trauma. At best, psychiatry suppresses life’s problems; at worst, it causes severe damage, irreversible setbacks in a person’s life and even death.

That quote came from scientology’s press office faq. The same faq also informed me that SO is, as you informed us, not navy, it is a small, personal army:


The Sea Organization or Sea Org is a religious order for the Scientology religion and is composed of the most dedicated Scientologists in the world—individuals who have dedicated their lives to the service of their religion.

The Sea Organization is a fraternal religious order and is not incorporated or otherwise organized as a legal entity. Members of the Sea Org therefore are wholly responsible to the church of Scientology for which they work and are subject, as are all other employees of that church, to the orders and directions of its board of directors.

and that there are over 5,000 of these members and that they have actually sign a million-year contract. I mean, who signs a million-year contract? Haven't you heard of inflation? Kidding aside, I kind of wish I hadn't read the faq. Now I have to worry about 5,000 pseudo-military men, who think they have no one to answer to, except the board of directors. Great, like I wasn't already paranoid enough.

To Terril Park and others in the freezone:

While I may not agree with the benefits of the tech and some of your beliefs, I am interested in the free sharing of information and the right of people to have reasonable access to it. So, I just wanted to say that it is a pleasure to see a group of people actually stand up against the 'establishment' and do that. Leaving was probably a very difficult process, and I wanted to acknowledge the strength that it must have taken to do that.


[edit on 6-1-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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While I may not agree with the benefits of the tech and some of your beliefs, I am interested in the free sharing of information and the right of people to have reasonable access to it. So, I just wanted to say that it is a pleasure to see a group of people actually stand up against the 'establishment' and do that. Leaving was probably a very difficult process, and I wanted to acknowledge the strength that it must have taken to do that.


Thanks for that, Duzey!
I imagine each of us experienced a different level of difficulty in leaving (it wasn't too bad for me personally); the worst thing was leaving behind something that we had found to be so workable. But it's amazing how much better it works when you take away all the crap. It took me 25 years to discover that such a thing was possible...

Free sharing of information...that's us! No pressure, no money-grubbing, no attacks on folks who don't agree with us...



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
To Terril Park and others in the freezone:

While I may not agree with the benefits of the tech and some of your beliefs, I am interested in the free sharing of information and the right of people to have reasonable access to it. So, I just wanted to say that it is a pleasure to see a group of people actually stand up against the 'establishment' and do that. Leaving was probably a very difficult process, and I wanted to acknowledge the strength that it must have taken to do that.


I just wanted to post a response from a freezone friend of mine who doesn't visit this board:


On behalf of all my friends here, my self, and every one else that has confronted the church from within it, I would like to thank you for that acknowledgment.

When you have put your beliefs and dedication into something that is the greatest thing for man kind in centuries as you full belive at the time. Then coming to "terms" with the fact that it has changed and is no longer that but an endless pit for your dedication... The trauma and courage of confronting the truth of it, in the face of all the dangers that are put AT you.... (sigh) yea, its a bitch. A real leap of faith if you would. The trouble is, that at the time it is a leap, with no faith of anything catching you. Just a raw courage leap.

We are not allowed to know of any other that would provide faith for the leap. ie, Freezone. We just get courage, and leap.

Then.... we find the Freezone and know why we left.


Thank you for that acknowledgment. Little things like that, from wonderful people like you, are what help heal the turmoil of bad days gone by.

Sometimes a little ack, goes a very long way.
Kudos to you.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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Skychief,

I read that book and cannot recall any mention of aliens.

Could you share the page or at least what section of the book you saw this in? Maybe I fell asleep and missed that part.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Hi Cybertroy,
I too worked for COS. Was a member for 25years.
Yes most in COS are good peole.

The organisation though has taken a turn to the "dark side".

One of the most serious uses of " reverse" scientology is the reversal of one of the most fundamental policies. Service Policy.

"We will win if we are scientology, not a lot of isolated groups."

The very successfull mission network was smashed in 82-3. Old time scientologists are not allowed to audit unless they completely retrain with
non LRH "GAT" materials. At great expense. Now Even these are told they cannot practice within 20 miles of a scientology organisation.

Us in the Freezone may get legal threats and Private investigators harrassing us with visits and phone calls.

So getting rid of competition seems more important than "Clearing the Planet".

" Where' there's a a group to be helped,or a preclear to be processed
or a student to be trained, see that its done; and if it gets done, don't
count the cost in broken rules."

Now to get to flag you need an OK from the local org intelligence bureau.
If you are overweight you won't qualify.

However one can go to fund raising meetings with doors locked until target amount raised.

Reversed to servicing the organisation, not the parishioners!

www.freewebs.com...



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
I just wanted to post a response from a freezone friend of mine who doesn't visit this board:

A real leap of faith if you would. The trouble is, that at the time it is a leap, with no faith of anything catching you. Just a raw courage leap.

We are not allowed to know of any other that would provide faith for the leap. ie, Freezone. We just get courage, and leap.

Azeari, thank you so much for posting both you and your friends kind replies. I'm touched to know that it meant enough to you that you would share it with others. I would ask that you would forward my response to him/her.

It was precisely that leap of faith that I was referring to. I made my own leap five years ago (not religious) and I remember too well the fear of not knowing what would happen to you when your friends, family, in some cases your job, everything that you think makes you 'you' are going to be gone in an instant, by your choice. But you know deep in your heart that staying is not right, that somehow, somewhere, it has to be better than this, and to stay will kill you inside, and you do the right thing, and make that leap into the unknown. You overcame every obstacle they threw in your way, every threat, every guilt trip, every time you were harassed, you stood your ground. You were the one they could not break, because you were too strong. I know from personal experience just how much courage it takes to make that leap, to admit to yourself that it *is* really that bad. To wonder how you could have let it go this far, and how can you ever escape, in the face of everyone telling you you're doing the wrong thing, and saying you will regret it for the rest of you life (or, in your case, eternity). To face all that and still have the courage to do what you know is right for you takes enormous strength of will, and every single person in the freezone has that in spades. Always remember that no matter how hard it can be sometimes, you can get through it, because you've already done one of the hardest things a person can ever do in their life, and you survived.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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Terril, 25 years, it's good to know you are still using Dianetics. Terril, I think you missed the point of GAT (Golden Age of Tech), which basically makes Auditors better at what they do. They are trained thouroughly and know there stuff so well they don't even have to think about it. This will improve the service, not hinder it. This makes happier customers.

Regarding some other peoples posts and links, why do you think it's about the money? What organization would exist on this earth without it? Are Scientologists supposed to work away and not have any money to forward the organization, or feed themselves. Sorry folks, this world is not world where you can live for free, you must have money.

If Scientology were so bad then why is John Travolta doing so well, why does Tom Cruise top the charts?

As far as Psychology and Psychiatry. Just one book in Scientology is worth more than all the books on Psychology and Psychiatry combined. You want to know what is bad, my Sister-in-laws brother who is on Ritalin because of Psychology, and doesn't care about anything. He's suppressed by these crap pills, headed toward being a zombie of sorts. Boy, that's some "high tech" treatment. If anyone should attack an organization then attack Psychology or something, don't attack a good organization. I also believe that there are some good, well meaning people within the fields of Psychology and Psychiatry, they have just entered the wrong fields. Now compare this with Scientology, Scientology does not use mind altering drugs as part of their practices. So, here we have Psychology with their pills that make you less aware on one hand, and on the other hand you have Scientology who tries to make you more aware, happy, and alive. And like I said, some of my greatest moments were within Scientology.

Understand who your friends are in this world. Psychology is not your friend.

Much love,

Troy



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