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Putin explains who is supporting ISIL

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posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: spy66


I am just stating that here are always to sides to a conflict. There is no doubt that the US and Russia are involved in Ukraine and Syria. And they both have their personal interests there. Who is right and who is wrong is subjective because both sides use bull sh.i..t as propaganda to form Our opinion.


Actually, we are in agreement about that. On the other hand, Russia has seized part of Ukraine in violation of the Budapest Memorandum and the spirit of the United Nations charter, whereas the United States has maintained normal diplomatic relations there and only began to train the Ukrainian military in response to Russian aggression, at the request of the legitimate government. Russia is clearly in the wrong.

In Syria, the United States has been giving financial support to groups that oppose a government that is ruling in violation of the country's constitution. This is in violation of the spirit of the United Nations charter and the westphalian tradition. More recently, it has provided air strikes against a group that has been working against the government, which although it benefits that government, is also a violation of the charter and tradition. Russia has responded to the request of the de facto government and is bombing Syrian targets with their permission. This is in keeping with the spirit of the United Nations charter. Although hundreds of innocent Syrians will die, collateral damage is inevitable and Russia is in the right.

That said, having law and tradition on one's side does not make a move wise. Russia may need to spend blood and treasure policing the area for years. The reward will not be gratitude, but blame. Arabs will start to blame all their problems on Russia, because the Arab world was perfect until the ferengi started messing with it.




posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




only began to train the Ukrainian military in response to Russian aggression


Yeah, nope. They didn't only train them, ask Academi. There is no aggression and the coup was not a russian trick either. So Kiew suddenly has the law on their side to fight their own people?
50K appr. dead by now, you've got used to double-standarts so much that you don't even realize using them?

Kinda funny in a sad way.



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

It is odd that for Instant Angela Dorothea Merkel yesterday said that Cremia belong to Russia. She said that in France yesterday in a 4 way Meeting between France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine.

Today Angela Dorothea Merkel went as far as to state that Assad must be involved in what takes Place in Syria.

What ever treaties or deals or what ever these Power juglers kook up means nothing if a super Power like Russia dont agree to other political events that take Place... that are against Russian interests. It dosent matter what the US think.

There is not a damn thing we can do about it. We have tried sanctions, but that dont work. We sure as hell are not going to start a shooting war With Russia to get them to comply.


EDIT:

Right now it seams like Germany are giving in to Russia regarding Ukraine and Syria. And it also seam like France have lowered their tone as well.

The bad thing is that there is no way Ukraine are going to be allowed to do any kind of election on their own without the comply from US, Germany or Russia.

Putin knows Germany is scrued:

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

I'm sorry, but I can't understand a thing you wrote. Please explain, and use outside sources to justify whatever it is you are claiming. Are you saying that I'm wrong when I say that Russia's involvement is legal, or what?



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

My statement wasn't that hard to comprehend, was it? You will find enough sources for that coup in Kiew, Acedemi in Ukraine and estimated losses of roughly 50K people. Just ignore the propaganda for a second and give it a try.

 


a reply to: spy66




There is not a damn thing we can do about it. We have tried sanctions, but that dont work. We sure as hell are not going to start a shooting war With Russia to get them to comply.


Except that we in Europe helped creating the Minsk-agreement. There is more to come, I think Germany would like to profit from the new Silk Road as well. And there is no way around Russia to achieve this.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion


My statement wasn't that hard to comprehend, was it? You will find enough sources for that coup in Kiew, Acedemi in Ukraine and estimated losses of roughly 50K people. Just ignore the propaganda for a second and give it a try


You mean this?


The Real Facts Behind Recent Reporting on ACADEMI in Ukraine

May 15, 2014

Some irresponsible news outlets have recently posted rumors that ACADEMI employees are operating in Ukraine. They are not and any reports to the contrary are completely false.

Many of these reports have also given the impression that ACADEMI and the company Blackwater are the same and this is also completely false.

The basics: Blackwater's owner sold the company's US-based training facility to a group of private investors in 2010. Those owners renamed the facility and the new company created to support it ACADEMI. The former owner of Blackwater retained all rights to the Blackwater name as well as many of the companies that once operated under the umbrella of Blackwater. ACADEMI has no existing relationship with him. The new management of ACADEMI has made tremendous efforts to build a responsible, transparent company ethos, evidenced by the numerous awards ACADEMI has received for being among the most compliant companies in our industry. More information can be found here.

Unfounded statements and accusations such as those in recent news reports, combined with a lack of research about the company, are nothing more than sensationalistic efforts to create hysteria and headlines in times of genuine crisis.

ACADEMI is not Blackwater, and ACADEMI has no personnel in Ukraine.


www.academi.com...

I still don't get your point.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

You look at their PR-site to aquire information, Media competence maybe?
Nobody on Ceres cares what they say, you know why?



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: DJW001

You look at their PR-site to aquire information, Media competence maybe?
Nobody on Ceres cares what they say, you know why?


All I did was filter out the sites that had the word "Nazi" in them. You did tell me to ignore the propaganda....



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

I see. There are no Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine and all information regarding Academi has to be aquired at their PR-site, not from German Intelligence sources.

Carry on! You are a funny example of ignorance from a past, where everything was OK.




posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion



I see. There are no Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine and all information regarding Academi has to be aquired at their PR-site, not from German Intelligence sources.


Of course there are neo-Nazis in Ukraine! Heck, there are neo-Nazis participating in this thread! I just filtered out sites that automatically use the words "Nazi" and "coup" when referring to the government in Kyiv. If you can find an actual report from a legitimate German Intelligence source, please post a link here. I'd love to see it.


Carry on! You are a funny example of ignorance from a past, where everything was OK.


And you are a Cold War динозавр!



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Damnd, I would love to speak Russian by now! Screw that Cold War, think we'll see a hot one very soon. Anyway...


But for many critics, change at the top is insufficient to alter an institutional culture that allowed the neo-Nazi group’s string of crimes to continue for so long. Nor are greater resources the answer, they say; instead, all levels of the security services, and society, need to be more conscious about the threat of crime driven by racism.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Yes, we should take the intel from alphabet-agencies with a truckload of salt.



Yet after simply Googling the terms "Ukraine" and "Neo-Nazi," the official position of the United States government along with the stance taken by many in the American media both now seem quite dubious, if not downright ridiculous, especially considering that one would be hard-pressed to machinate the lineup that now dominates Ukraine's ministry posts.

For starters, Andriy Parubiy, the new secretary of Ukraine's security council, was a co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), otherwise known as Svoboda. And his deputy, Dmytro Yarosh, is the leader of a party called the Right Sector which, according to historian Timothy Stanley, "flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies."

The highest-ranking right-wing extremist is Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych, also a member of Svoboda, who believes that women should "lead the kind of lifestyle to avoid the risk of rape, including refraining from drinking alcohol and being in controversial company." This is the philosophy underlying one of his "legal initiatives," according to the Kyiv Post, "to ban all abortions, even for pregnancies that occurred during rape."

The Svoboda party has tapped into Nazi symbolism including the "wolf's angel" rune, which resembles a swastika and was worn by members of the Waffen-SS, a panzer division that was declared a criminal organization at Nuremberg. A report from Tel-Aviv University describes the Svoboda party as "an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Blabla and blabla. Yes, we ought to know that by now. You think they proliferate propaganda writing this? Let's rather state there is no Ukraine in Asia, we might be better off with that claim after all...



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

The USSR was allied with Nazi Germany.
The USSR also took in former SS officers for its weapons and space program.
The largest concentration of NEO NAZIS in Europe actually reside in Russia.
Russia has more nationalist-socialist members of their DUMA than Ukraine has in its government.


People should be careful throwing stones in glass houses.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

In other words no, you cannot find a single authentic statement from German Intelligence so you copypasta-ed an op-ed piece about something completely different. Fail.
edit on 6-10-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

What the frag is the problem with you guys?
Good journalism is not worth a short glimpse?

Kinda amusing to see you avoiding such reports like a dirty dog avoids soap and water.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 09:51 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Xcathdra

What the frag is the problem with you guys?
Good journalism is not worth a short glimpse?

Kinda amusing to see you avoiding such reports like a dirty dog avoids soap and water.


I'm still waiting for you to post a link to a legitimate journalistic source that quotes a genuine German Intelligence report stating that Academi is operating in Ukraine. At this point it is clear that you cannot find one, so you have resorted, as usual, to diversion and ad hom.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
I'm still waiting for you to post a link to a legitimate journalistic source that quotes a genuine German Intelligence report stating that Academi is operating in Ukraine. At this point it is clear that you cannot find one, so you have resorted, as usual, to diversion and ad hom.


Einsatz gegen Separatisten: Ukrainische Armee bekommt offenbar Unterstützung von US-Söldnern


400 US-Söldner sollen in der Ostukraine gegen die Separatisten kämpfen. Das berichtet "Bild am Sonntag" und beruft sich dabei auf Geheimdienstinformationen. Die Kämpfer kommen demnach vom Militärdienstleister Academi, früher bekannt als Blackwater.

400 US soldiers could be fighting Separatists in Eastern Ukraine. This headline from "Bild am Sonntag has proven since to be propaganda. The fighters are in fact from Academi, previously know as Blackwater.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: DJW001



Spiegel adds that "the information originates from U.S. intelligence services and was presented during a meeting chaired by the Chancellor's Office chief Peter Altmaier (CDU). At the meeting were present the president of the intelligence agencies and the Federal Criminal Office, as well as the intelligence coordinator of the Chancellor's Office and senior Ministry officials."

www.zerohedge.com...

The Spiegel is not a bad newspaper. Anyway, I see you don't like this discussion and can offer the Academi-denial only. Agreed to disagree then.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion


The Spiegel is not a bad newspaper. Anyway, I see you don't like this discussion and can offer the Academi-denial only. Agreed to disagree then.


But you're not quoting der Spiegel, you are quoting zerohedge! I'll go and have a look at the actual article to see what it really says.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Thank you. The article in der Spiegel is describing an internet rumor that was published in Bild am Sonntag, a tabloid. The account is vague, saying that 400 US mercenaries might be reinforcing Ukrainian troops. And concludes:


Eine Bestätigung für den Bericht gibt es bisher nicht. Der BND habe eine Stellungnahme abgelehnt, so "Bild am Sonntag".


"There has been no confirmation of the news so far. The BND has not taken a position vis-a-vis "Bild am Sonntag."

www.spiegel.de...

In fact, Academi trains soldiers. It is possible they have been contracted to train Ukrainian troops by the US government, leading to the rumors that they were engaging in combat operations.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Bewaffnete US-Soldaten von Polizei am Flughafen Wien gestoppt

US soldiers stopped by Police in Vienna airport




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