NYC World Premiere. Firefighters, Architects & Engineers: Expose the Myths of 9/11

a reply to: pteridine

I sent the link so you could be made aware that underground fires existed. You seemed to be unaware of the possibility. The conditions are the same: Fuel, air, and ignition source. The fire burns slowly and stays hot in an insulated containment.

Burning coal is not the same as a conventional fire. Fail.

The air underground at ground zero was shown to be three orders of a magnitude less than that required to sustain smoldering combustion. That means 3x less. Yet temperatures where at 2800 degrees with tens of thousands of tons of concrete, 4 million gallons of water plus thousands of gallons of pyrocool FEF in the first 10 days. There is no way paper and wood can maintain such a temperature. And there is no way you give two sh!ts that what I'm telling you is the truth. IF you believe your lies, you've fallen out of the tree. There is NO way, it's a thermodynamic impossibility.

a reply to: cardinalfan0596

1. Hundreds of tons of combustibles at the bottom of the pile, with air fed into the bottom from a number of tunnels into the bathtub. No need to travel.

What air feed? The one in your mind? So now there was a functional HVAC plenum air return working huh?

2. Fire, consuming clothing, books, people,...the tons of combustibles found in the pile...takes a lot to put out.

Clothing and book fires requires 36 mil gallons of water now eh?

3. Only an idiot would use water to try and put out a metal based fire like thermite.

You're right #3 is irrelevant because it's stupid. Should have just deleted it before posting. Like they knew they were watering down thermite, or should have known? What a laugh

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: pteridine

I sent the link so you could be made aware that underground fires existed. You seemed to be unaware of the possibility. The conditions are the same: Fuel, air, and ignition source. The fire burns slowly and stays hot in an insulated containment.

Burning coal is not the same as a conventional fire. Fail.

The air underground at ground zero was shown to be three orders of a magnitude less than that required to sustain smoldering combustion. That means 3x less. Yet temperatures where at 2800 degrees with tens of thousands of tons of concrete, 4 million gallons of water plus thousands of gallons of pyrocool FEF in the first 10 days. There is no way paper and wood can maintain such a temperature. And there is no way you give two sh!ts that what I'm telling you is the truth. IF you believe your lies, you've fallen out of the tree. There is NO way, it's a thermodynamic impossibility.

Obviously, you know little about this, science, or engineering. Three orders of magnitude is ten cubed or 1000. You said that a few hundred pounds of thermite could do this and are wrong by many orders of magnitude. You have no idea of air infiltration rates or temperatures below ground level. You are another gullible wannabe who believes those who have agendas and have suckered you into believing their fantasies.

a reply to: FlySolo

Hi FIySolo, Don't let them get under your skin. That is what he want you to do. My advice is, don't feed him.
Hopefully he will go away. If you play his game you will get Band from ATS. Walk away, He is baiting you.

Just a concern reader here.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: pteridine

Thanks for clearing that up. Then there was 1000x less oxygen.

You have no idea of air infiltration rates or temperatures below ground level. You are another gullible wannabe who believes those who have agendas and have suckered you into believing their fantasies.

Is it my turn now and tell you what I think of you or are you going to complain for a cookie? Because really, I don't mind your ad homs just as long as I can say what's on my mind. Deal? Don't complain so I can say what's really on my mind without being censored. And I won't complain about you.

Say what you want. Someone has invented oxygen levels and temperatures and you repeat them as though they were gospel. Someone has told you that a few hundred pounds of thermite would accomplish the same thing as tons of burning office contents. They are in error by many orders of magnitude.
Stop blindly believing the inconsistent theories and claims of knowledge of conspiracy without evidence. If someone says thermite caused the collapse, ask where the charges were placed and what their sizes were. Ask how they were timed.

a reply to: pteridine

No, I won't stoop. You throw around insults hoping to win an argument but it doesn't do anything. It just makes you look desperate. And I've learned a few things debating on ATS. My inaccurate definition of order of magnitude was enough to stimulate a knee jerk emotional outburst to correct me. Doing so only made my point more valid. 1000x less air. Now don't you feel silly?

Flub 1. Assuming

Someone has told you that a few hundred pounds of thermite would accomplish the same thing as tons of burning office contents.

No one told me that except you, with your logic it would take tons and tons of thermite to equal the heat intensity of conventional fires smothered in concrete.

Flub 2.
Under estimating the work of others

Stop blindly believing the inconsistent theories and claims of knowledge of conspiracy without evidence.

No one is blindly believing anything. Not even you believe your lies but for whatever nefarious reason you stand by it.

If someone says thermite caused the collapse, ask where the charges were placed and what their sizes were. Ask how they were timed.

I have asked, and I have researched. They put them in the elevator shafts. They being ACE elevators and the mossad art students. Its foolish of you to assume I just repeat what I hear because you will lose this debate.

I thought Putin was going to drop some gamechanging 9/11 info on us... lol.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: pteridine

No, I won't stoop. You throw around insults hoping to win an argument but it doesn't do anything. It just makes you look desperate. And I've learned a few things debating on ATS. My inaccurate definition of order of magnitude was enough to stimulate a knee jerk emotional outburst to correct me. Doing so only made my point more valid. 1000x less air. Now don't you feel silly?

Someone has told you that a few hundred pounds of thermite would accomplish the same thing as tons of burning office contents.

No one told me that except you, with your logic it would take tons and tons of thermite to equal the heat intensity of conventional fires smothered in concrete.

Flub 2.
Under estimating the work of others

Stop blindly believing the inconsistent theories and claims of knowledge of conspiracy without evidence.

No one is blindly believing anything. Not even you believe your lies but for whatever nefarious reason you stand by it.

If someone says thermite caused the collapse, ask where the charges were placed and what their sizes were. Ask how they were timed.

I have asked, and I have researched. They put them in the elevator shafts. They being ACE elevators and the mossad art students. Its foolish of you to assume I just repeat what I hear because you will lose this debate.

You said "First of all, it wasn't tons and tons. That was you and your little partner's strawman thrown in there. Just a few hundred pounds is all."
Using the heat of reaction of thermite, show how a few hundred pounds would keep thousands of tons of rubble hot for weeks. Of course you can't because it won't. You have no idea of even where to begin because if you had any idea of the thermodynamics at all, you would have never repeated that statement that you found on some website. That marketing class won't help you now; you should have taken thermo. You lose, and there is no recovery from this faux pas.

Mossad Art students? Where did you dredge this up from, the American Nazi Party website? A few hundred pounds of thermite in the elevator shafts? How many beams do you think that would cut through? What is the geometry of the elevator shafts and their structure? If the elevator shafts in the core failed first, why did the core remain standing while the outer shell collapsed? You lose again.

a reply to: pteridine

Using the heat of reaction of thermite, show how a few hundred pounds would keep thousands of tons of rubble hot for weeks. Of course you can't because it won't. You have no idea of even where to begin because if you had any idea of the thermodynamics at all, you would have never repeated that statement that you found on some website.

Just because I'm not an explosives expert with all the answers doesn't mean I can't see through the bullsh!t of someone who thinks they do. You have no clue at all either so stop pretending. In fact, it was Richard Gage who said, 10 men, 10 lbs, 10 trips. I'll leave it to the professionals to get my information. Me saying a few hundred pounds is just an arbitrary guess. You're the one who said tons and tons. Where do you get tons and tons from? Did the math? Probably not because like you and all other die hard OSers who regurgitate 911 myth sites, don't know squat.

And yes, Mossad art students. If you knew anything you would already know what I'm talking about. But you know jack squat.

What is the geometry of the elevator shafts and their structure? If the elevator shafts in the core failed first, why did the core remain standing while the outer shell collapsed?

You're on drugs. Nothing remained especially the core. Now w'ere going to argue about that aren't we?

a reply to: FlySolo

I have asked, and I have researched. They put them in the elevator shafts. They being ACE elevators and the mossad art students. Its foolish of you to assume I just repeat what I hear because you will lose this debate.

It took 1500 pounds of thermite just to burn through two steel legs of a tower.

Skyride Tower Felled by Melting Steel Legs

Intense heat was employed by wrecking engineers in toppling the 3,000,000-pound east tower of the “Skyride,” a major attraction of Chicago's Century of Progress. Huge “overshoes” in the form of cupolas made of steel and lined with firebrick were constructed around two legs of the tower and filled with 1,500 pounds of thermite, a mixture of aluminum and iron oxide.

When fired by electricity the thermite generated a temperature of more than 5,000 degrees about the two legs, melting the ten-foot sections almost instantly, causing the tower to tip and then to crash. A microphone attached to the tip of the tower broadcast the noise of the fall by radio, and the spectacle was viewed by a crowd estimated at more than 100,000. The west tower had been wrecked several weeks earlier with dynamite.

books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=true

Look how much work at ground level it took to wrap thermite around the two steel legs.

Photo: Thermie Preparaton

That much work just for two steel legs at ground level.

a reply to: skyeagle409

because they did it wrong

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: pteridine

Using the heat of reaction of thermite, show how a few hundred pounds would keep thousands of tons of rubble hot for weeks. Of course you can't because it won't. You have no idea of even where to begin because if you had any idea of the thermodynamics at all, you would have never repeated that statement that you found on some website.

Just because I'm not an explosives expert with all the answers doesn't mean I can't see through the bullsh!t of someone who thinks they do. You have no clue at all either so stop pretending. In fact, it was Richard Gage who said, 10 men, 10 lbs, 10 trips. I'll leave it to the professionals to get my information. Me saying a few hundred pounds is just an arbitrary guess. You're the one who said tons and tons. Where do you get tons and tons from? Did the math? Probably not because like you and all other die hard OSers who regurgitate 911 myth sites, don't know squat.

And yes, Mossad art students. If you knew anything you would already know what I'm talking about. But you know jack squat.

What is the geometry of the elevator shafts and their structure? If the elevator shafts in the core failed first, why did the core remain standing while the outer shell collapsed?

You're on drugs. Nothing remained especially the core. Now w'ere going to argue about that aren't we?

Dear Mr. Squat, The core remained standing for 10-15 seconds after the outer shell collapsed. If the "Mossad art students" [this is a hoot] caused the collapse by using thermite in the elevator shafts why did the core last longer than the rest of the building. Oops. We believed one of those shabby websites again, didn't we? Try looking at the videos of the collapse and you will see why this elevator shaft claim is a complete non-starter. Mossad is off the hook. Maybe you could buy a Kosher watercolor.
Richard Gage is a professional con artist. No wonder you are repeating nonsense. Just don't send him any money like the other suckers have.
As to the thermite, we did say tons and tons because the heat of reaction is LESS than the heat of combustion of paper and other organics. There were tons and tons of those burning so we would need more thermite, by weight, to make the same heat. Unfortunately for the thermiters, the reaction is very rapid and the long term thermal signature supports a combustion and not the thermite reaction. Even Stevie Jones tried to pull a thermitic fast one and he lost. I put a few nails into his technical paper's coffin using his own data. He may be a good physicist, but he is a poor chemist.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: skyeagle409

because they did it wrong

They did? This is the "I'll leave it to the professionals to get my information" guy but you now think they did it wrong. What did they do that was wrong? Remember that they had many people designing this who knew what they were doing.

Could Richard Gage have been making things up?

a reply to: pteridine

No. you answer my questions. How do you quantify the amount of thermite to continue a fire for 4 months? How much is needed to take out the core columns? How much time is required to rig the thermite? How many people would need to be involved? Ok. go!

a reply to: FlySolo

Wow, the lack of research...

There was a subway station under the WTC, there were several openings in the bathtub that allowed air flow into the bottom of the debris pile. And the water was used for more than just putting out fires.

a reply to: FlySolo

You have problems with 911myths.com...which is pretty much a bunch of links and uploading documents....but use Richard Gage. Okay then.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: pteridine

No. you answer my questions. How do you quantify the amount of thermite to continue a fire for 4 months? How much is needed to take out the core columns? How much time is required to rig the thermite? How many people would need to be involved? Ok. go!

Thermite would react or not but wouldn't last for 4 months. It doesn't work as a slow cooker so it would need to be replenished on a regular basis during the four months. Think underground fires. Richard Gage is a complete incompetent or is just suckering in donors. Are you getting this YET?

Because the core columns are what is called "vertical," you would have to build structures around them to contain the molten iron while they melted/weakened. How much you would need to use would depend on where you placed the charges, because the columns get less massive as height above ground increases. The time required to build a containment of refractory brick around a support column would likely be days at ground level but would require structural additions above ground level to support the cupola. Give it a week with materials available and blueprints in hand...for each column. To do a nice job of melting and to prevent refreezing of the molten mass [thermite is used for repairs of massive metal objects that are too big to weld easily] likely several tons would be needed, per column, at the base. One would have to calculate the heat capacity of the affected target cross section and would have to allow for heat conducted away from the target zone by the metal
You would need at least one person that could build the refractory containments. You would need at least one person that could place or connect the ignitors at the last moment [it is not good to place initiation devices too early as they have ways of going bad or setting themselves off]. How many mules would be necessary to carry the thermite into the building would depend on many things. Assume two tons per column times the number of columns you wish to melt and decide how many people over what time would be necessary.
A problem with this has to do with the size of the weakened zone on each column. Demolitions involve knocking supports sideways and letting gravity take over. There is no force applied that would take them off-center and there is a chance that they would melt and then settle down on themselves and refreeze at some point.

All of the above is moot. The biggest problem that Gage has with this half-baked 'theory' is what I referred to earlier. Videos of the collapse show the core remaining for some seconds after the outer structure has collapsed. What this means is that the core did not initiate the collapse so thermite in the elevator shafts didn't do it. Gage seems to be getting desperate but the concept of Mossad art students has entertainment value even if he didn't intend it. Do you have that Kosher watercolor yet?