Russians & NASA Discredit 'Fossil Fuel' Theory: Demise of Junk CO2 Science

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I am saying that when we are in an over supply situation the price of oil is determined by market manipulators rather than supply/demand economics. If it was truly natural market forces how do commodity prices drop from $140/bbl to $38/bbl in six months like in 2008. The world due to the economic crash in 2008 was 6-8 million barrels per day over supplied in 2009, yet the oil price increased to over $100/bbl. Goldman was coaught making 100,000,000 barrel round 24 hour trip trades to support prices.

a reply to: billyjack

One word: speculation.

a reply to: billyjack

And I would bet a bottle of piss to $20 that you see under $30/bbl before Christmas in the spot markets.

originally posted by: SPECULUM
The reason oil prices are high in the US, is because the FED is stealing over a dollar in taxes on every gallon. Otherwise we would only be paying around a Buck per gallon

We will never run out of energy....Ever

Yep!

The peak oil theory went bust in 2005 when reports came out about the largest reserves were increasing in output. So where did the oil come from? Did we have another so-called ELE around that time? Decayed animals/plants -that's too funny. If oil was diminishing, we wouldn't have the rise and fall in pricing.

Oil comes from abiotic hydrocarbons from the Mohorovičić discontinuity.

Do your research folks.

a reply to: thestillborn1

The peak oil theory went bust in 2005 when reports came out about the largest reserves were increasing in output.

Please link to a report from an industry source that claims that this is due to the existing reserves being replenished, rather than advancements in extraction technology. I can wait while you do your own research.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: thestillborn1

The peak oil theory went bust in 2005 when reports came out about the largest reserves were increasing in output.

Please link to a report from an industry source that claims that this is due to the existing reserves being replenished, rather than advancements in extraction technology. I can wait while you do your own research.

Goes back even further.........Here's an early article from 1995 that leads up to the current theory.

www.nytimes.com...

..............just Google it! Oil comes from abiotic hydrocarbons from the MOHO...........that's why BP Oil was drilling into it in the Gulf and caused their disaster. You don't believe it? Listen carefully to the interview that the BP engineer gave to 20/20 about that disaster.

Do your own research next time.

a reply to: thestillborn1

Do your own research next time.

As a matter of fact, I've read Gold's "Deep, Hot Biosphere" and found it very persuasive. It still remains unproven, however. Most of the anecdotal evidence of reservoirs replenishing can be explained by subsurface leakage through porous strata. You are welcome to accept the theory on faith, however.

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: jinni73

huge methane lakes were found.

the composition of crude oil has differing complexities of hydrogen & carbon = hydrocarbons

I think you are trying to argue that because Oil [contains methane] therefore methane = Oil, or something. Im not quite sure. If you could elaborate.

In any case, anyone who is familiar with fractional distillation will be well aware why there is a huge difference between the hydrocarbons in space and crude oil found on Earth.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Think you might of got the link wrong but are you trying to tell me an atom is different on another planet or just the way it bonds?

The way I picture the creation of longer chain hydrocarbons in nature is that it's not really all that far removed from the Fischer-Tropsch chemistry. You got heat, pressure, a catalyst, a good carbon source, some oxygen, and a source of hydrogen. Methane may be one thing, but if you find geothermal activity on another planet, and both methane and water, then chances are it also has various grades of petroleum as well. (So you could count methane as being a marker to the availability of other possible resources.)

Bio-source may be partly true. But I don't think of it as the only source, I just think it's a fairly rich feed-stock for the geothermal catalytic process. Decaying biomass is full of carbohydrates that can be cracked and cooked into hydrocarbons with plenty of heat, pressure, and exposure to the right mineral beds.

a reply to: pauljs75

Bio-source may be partly true. But I don't think of it as the only source, I just think it's a fairly rich feed-stock for the geothermal catalytic process.

Ethane and methane are extremely simple molecules that have been found all through the Solar System. Crude petroleum is an extremely complicated combination of molecules, the composition of which varies from place to place. It can be refined to produce a variety of useful hydrocarbons. The simple molecules on other planets formed as hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon atoms bumped in to one another. The sticky black ooze that is pumped out of Earth's crust must have had a more complicated origin.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: pauljs75

Bio-source may be partly true. But I don't think of it as the only source, I just think it's a fairly rich feed-stock for the geothermal catalytic process.

Ethane and methane are extremely simple molecules that have been found all through the Solar System. Crude petroleum is an extremely complicated combination of molecules, the composition of which varies from place to place. It can be refined to produce a variety of useful hydrocarbons. The simple molecules on other planets formed as hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon atoms bumped in to one another. The sticky black ooze that is pumped out of Earth's crust must have had a more complicated origin.

The Earth has Plate Tectonics, which is proof that there are antagonistic gravitic forces or forces other than gravity working in Earth's planetary mass. No other planet has motion or variation of forces in its body. The motion causes or is associated with heat and pressure which can put energy into chemical bonds and lock in high energy low volume arrangements of atoms. A single carbon chain takes up less space than several methane or even CO2 molecules.

Petroleum takes up less volume than an equivalent number of carbon atoms in methane. In the high pressure subterranean space evolution tends to favor higher density arrangements of molecules.

By evolution, activation energy, and statistical probability, the abiotic process is very likely.

Biomass is another way to make petroleum, not the only way. The pooling is due to cap rocks, not massive deposits. The massive deposits are older, from the Carboniferous which was plants alone, and are usually coal rather than petroleum. If all petroleum came from biomass, then the Carboniferous deposits would have more oil in them.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

The Earth has Plate Tectonics, which is proof that there are antagonistic gravitic forces or forces other than gravity working in Earth's planetary mass.

Please explain.

No other planet has motion or variation of forces in its body.

There is evidence of volcanism and cryo-volcanism on nearly every planet or large moon in the Solar System, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

More variation of the locations of pressure and heat means more opportunities to make petroleum from new rock than is found on other planets and moons. During the process of motion acutely high pressures and temperatures, maybe higher than on any internally still body, might be the major factor.

Plate Tectonics is evidence of the subterranean motion.

a reply to: billyjack

So it was $35 at XMAS, but it's 30-day trailing average is under $30. Off by a month. I'll be more precise next time

try to turn this in my head, giving all possible meaning of "petroleum", or cutting trought the bad use of word and trying to make sens of the incomprension of the people. Even with all that, the only answer I get is: The article is bull#ing a proof for an unproven theorie, and it does it maliciously. If you whant to prove something you have to work harder than that

a reply to: AnnaDanishek

lets go another route shall we and look at the creation of carbon dioxide and hydrogen oxide which is formed when oxygen interacts with methane

another route which implies you have to have the simplest form of petroleum before plants can even be formed.

Sorry, got 5 pages in and realized it's an old thread.

Talking about methane, apparently there is a couple ways it can be made.

Is the Red Planet giving off methane? The question has taunted scientists for nearly 50 years, ever since the Mariner 7 spacecraft detected a whiff of the gas near Mars’ south pole. Researchers retracted the finding a month later after realizing that the signal was in fact coming from carbon dioxide ice. Then in 2003 and 2004, earthbound telescopes and orbiting spacecraft rekindled the mystery with reports of large methane clouds in Mars’ atmosphere.

Most of Earth’s methane comes from living organisms, though a small fraction can form when rocks and hot water interact. A burp of methane on Mars would indicate that the planet might be more alive than previously thought—whether biologically or geologically. But the “plumes” mysteriously vanished a few years later, sparking intense debate over whether they might have been seasonal, or the results of flawed measurements. NASA’s Curiosity rover would resolve the matter, everyone hoped. The rover sampled Mars’ atmosphere six times for methane between October 2012 and June 2013—and detected none.

But the case for Martian methane remained far from settled. A few months later, Curiosity detected a sudden burst of the gas in four measurements over a period of two months. - See more at: www.astrobio.net...

There is another probe on it's way there, designed to detect life.

A joint European and Russian space mission is heading to Mars.

Launched from Baikonur in Kazakhstan, the ExoMars Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO) will study methane and other rare gases in the Red Planet's atmosphere, and also drop a lander on its surface.

The cruise to the Red Planet is a seven-month, 500-million-km journey. And even when it arrives, the TGO will take the better part of a year to manoeuvre itself into just the right position around Mars. So, in reality, the satellite's observations will not start in earnest until late 2017. But when they do, they will represent the first life-detection investigations made at Mars in more than 40 years. The TGO's instruments can sense the smallest components in the air with remarkable fidelity.

www.bbc.com...

Ok, so they will try to figure where it's coming from and hopefully figure out how it got to other places.

It would seem logical the biotic theory would gain initial acceptance. The climate of 17th and early 18th century chemistry suggested life was essential to the production of carbon-containing compounds similar to those found in living organisms. It was also recognized that many minute life forms are found in sedimentary layers within the earth. Pressure, percolation, and other processes might well lead to pooled oil deposits.

Also there are some bacteria that are capable of living entirely in the deep underground, feeding on radioactive decay.

www.universetoday.com...

But I somehow doubt anything that deep can produce oil faster than we consume it.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: pauljs75

Bio-source may be partly true. But I don't think of it as the only source, I just think it's a fairly rich feed-stock for the geothermal catalytic process.

Ethane and methane are extremely simple molecules that have been found all through the Solar System. Crude petroleum is an extremely complicated combination of molecules, the composition of which varies from place to place. It can be refined to produce a variety of useful hydrocarbons. The simple molecules on other planets formed as hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon atoms bumped in to one another. The sticky black ooze that is pumped out of Earth's crust must have had a more complicated origin.

The Earth has Plate Tectonics, which is proof that there are antagonistic gravitic forces or forces other than gravity working in Earth's planetary mass. No other planet has motion or variation of forces in its body. The motion causes or is associated with heat and pressure which can put energy into chemical bonds and lock in high energy low volume arrangements of atoms. A single carbon chain takes up less space than several methane or even CO2 molecules.

It's probably caused by the Moon and its tides. The oceans aren't the only thing that rises and falls. The Earth itself is squeazed and pushed by it too.

No other planet in the Solar system has a moon that is so large proportional to its own size, and which orbits faster than its own rate of spin. (Pluto and Charon are probably the closest example, but they are "tidally locked" meaning they rotate exactly as fast as they orbit so the same side is always facing each other, which prevents any tidal effects.)

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Petroleum takes up less volume than an equivalent number of carbon atoms in methane. In the high pressure subterranean space evolution tends to favor higher density arrangements of molecules.

By evolution, activation energy, and statistical probability, the abiotic process is very likely.

Biomass is another way to make petroleum, not the only way. The pooling is due to cap rocks, not massive deposits. The massive deposits are older, from the Carboniferous which was plants alone, and are usually coal rather than petroleum. If all petroleum came from biomass, then the Carboniferous deposits would have more oil in them.

It can also be produced purely synthetically. The "Reverse water gas shift" process can convert CO2 into CO, which can then be mashed together with Hydrogen via Fischer Tropsch to form any petroleum fuel you want.

Trouble is, it takes more than four times as more energy to do this than what you will get back when you burn it.

So if solar and wind ever become a serious thing, humanity will have petroleum fuel available until the end of time. Natural oil is just cheaper and easier to get.