All beatings are hate crimes.

originally posted by: grainofsand
No need to blaspheme, although as you know I don't believe in any spiritual things! lol

I don't keep track of people's beliefs, so I don't know yours. But that's how I talk. It's just a word.

You made a point of hiding your opinion regarding the definition of 'hate crimes' and I wondered what you were doing here if you had no interest in sharing your opinion.

I am not hiding anything. I have said before what I think. I didn't see you ASKING for people's opinions on hate crime, so I didn't bother.

Again, here is what you said: "please do post your opinions if you feel strongly enough". I don't feel strongly one way or another, so I didn't post my opinion... Perhaps you should re-read your OP... I responded to what you SAID, maybe not what you were thinking. I can't read your mind.

You DID ask: "I wonder why the focus on these 5 social groups?" and I talked about the history hate crimes, how they originated and why these groups are the focus.

And you chewed me out for responding!

And your reply answered nothing,

My reply DID answer the only question you asked!!!

why should it be a hate crime to beat up someone because of their skin colour but not a hate crime if you beat them up for being an immigrant or say a homeless beggar?

It shouldn't! And if you had asked that earlier, I would have answered, but you didn't. I can't read your mind... I'm done.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Ah, I thank you for your contribution to the thread but it's just a pity you seem annoyed. I didn't realise I had to ask specific questions for you to share your opinion. Have a cup of tea maybe, it's all good at my end, I'm not annoyed, just looking for interesting discussion but it seems to be difficult between ourselves.
Especially when in your first reply you said:

I am neither defending or criticizing the existence of hate crime legislation.

Why make a proclamation that you intend to sit on the fence?

I'm interested in discussion about how ridiculous I am asserting that 'hate crime' is.
If you wish to contribute your thoughts then please do, I am in a happy mood and welcome your on topic thoughts.

You can't back a single word of this OP with facts.

Do you have studies or any facts ?

No just making up more stuff to try to get noticed.

Sheesh.

a reply to: whyamIhere

Lol, are you making the case that some beatings are not inspired by hate then?
You know, not defending oneself, beating them in an attack, that a position of love or hate?
Come on, you're being a silly billy now.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: whyamIhere

Lol, are you making the case that some beatings are not inspired by hate then?
You know, not defending oneself, beating them in an attack, that a position of love or hate?
Come on, you're being a silly billy now.

When a parent beats a child is it hate ?

When a boxer beats an opponent is it hate ?

So see, you think you know it all. But, you don't.

a reply to: whyamIhere

You are just being silly now. It is fairly obvious the type of unprovoked beatings I was on about, you know, how I said about beating someone for their skin colour is no more hateful than beating someone because they identify as an Emo.

You've already stated in another thread that you will communicate with me in every subject I comment on, I'm still loving it, never had my own online stalker before lol


*Edit*
Oh, and I have never hit any of the children I've raised.
I'm surprised you used it as an example, sounds a bit Dickensian to me.

So, anyone out there who can offer a reasoned explanation how beating someone solely because of the colour of their skin is more hateful than beating someone for their nationality or say being an Emo?

I moved to England when I was 16, I had two particularly bad beatings before I reached adulthood (18) just because I was from Wales, Welsh, not English.
I still remember the shouts of "Die, you #ing sheep shagger" before I lost consciousness.
That would not be classified as a hate crime though, bizarre don't ya think?

I got smacked round the back of the head from behind once by some guy, not because he hated me, but because I told his girlfriend who was also a Friend of mine from school, that he cheated behind her back. It wasn't a hate crime, just an idiot wanting to prove he was a tough guy and a bit of revenge. He didn't hate me just felt the need for retribution. There's no such thing as bad thoughts only bad actions. If I hated man united fans and beat someone for being a United fan that would be a hate crime

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
I got smacked round the back of the head from behind once by some guy, not because he hated me, but because I told his girlfriend who was also a Friend of mine from school, that he cheated behind her back. It wasn't a hate crime, just an idiot wanting to prove he was a tough guy and a bit of revenge. He didn't hate me just felt the need for retribution

Retribution is the public manifestation of hate though, don't you think?
He certainly didn't feel love for a fellow human when he attacked you.
I think the whole 'hate crime' legal definition is ridiculous, why is it hateful to beat a person for skin colour but not hateful to beat up Eastern European white immigrants?

a reply to: grainofsand I think the motive behind the beating is important.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: grainofsand I think the motive behind the beating is important.

I agree.
It is why I ask is beating someone for being Welsh, an Emo, or being a homeless immigrant not as hateful as beating someone because of the colour of their skin or gender identification?

The 'hate' laws as I see them currently written are questionable at best.
Do you disagree?

You'd best ask a judge, but if the motivation was because you were Welsh and the offender was a known well hater, then maybe it was a hate crime.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
You'd best ask a judge, but if the motivation was because you were Welsh and the offender was a known well hater, then maybe it was a hate crime.

No it wouldn't in current law.
There are only 5 protected groups remember.
It's not a hate crime to beat up an Emo, just regular assault actual/grievous bodily harm stuff. So what are your thoughts about that may I ask?
Do you support the current 'hate crime' laws as they are currently written? I don't.

*Edit*
Nationalities are not protected in UK law, only race.
You can beat up a Welsh or Hungarian bloke just for being Welsh or Hungarian and it is not a hate crime so long as you didn't beat them because of their race.
Nationalities are not protected groups in UK law.