All beatings are hate crimes.

Yep, I am making an assertion in my title, all beatings which are not a course of action to protect oneself or others are hate crimes.
Hate crimes in the UK are described briefly as follows from the UK government website link and quote:
www.gov.uk...

Crimes committed against someone because of their disability, gender-identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation are hate crimes and should be reported to the police.
Hate crimes can include:

threatening behaviour
assault
robbery
damage to property
inciting others to commit hate crimes
harassment

I know it's similar in the US so I wonder why the focus on these 5 social groups?
If say an emo gets beaten up, you know, their face stoved into the floor, multiple broken teeth, nose and jaw, while the attacker is shouting abuse about them solely for being an emo, is that not a hate crime?

Beating anyone up when they've done nothing is a hate crime to me, regardless of the reasons for the hate.
If someone can dehumanise another enough in their mind to wish to hurt them solely for being part of a social demographic then I don't see the distinction with the 5 protected groups and everyone else.

I've had a couple of unprovoked beatings to unconsciousness in my life, just a face in the wrong place at the wrong time, and none of them were inspired by love but they were apparently not hate crimes.
All beatings and killings are hate crimes if they are not in defence, or inspired by uncontrollable fear.
Why do so many ATS members focus on the race element?

Hate is hate as far as I see it.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

...drive by OP I'm afraid, I just wanted to share my thoughts before I go out.
I won't be posting anything until tomorrow so please do post your opinions if you feel strongly enough and argue among yourselves if its on-topic about the definition of what is a 'hate crime'.

I've shared my thoughts and I'll reply tomorrow if anyone is interested in this discussion topic.

originally posted by: grainofsand

If say an emo gets beaten up, you know, their face stoved into the floor, multiple broken teeth, nose and jaw, while the attacker is shouting abuse about them solely for being an emo, is that not a hate crime?

that depends.
is the emo black and the people doing the beating white?
if yes, then yes

if no then it is just a plain old crime....
strange huh

For sure, if you are going to beat the living daylights out of somebody there has to be some hate there, I was actually an emo in my teen years, skinny jeans, pink belts, black dyed hair the lot, and I had a few scuffles with individuals that hated me just because of the way I dressed/acted, hate is not confined to race, it can be anything really, just that our over liberalized politicians think hatred only involves someone's race or religion, which is false

good post

The whole idea of 'hate crimes' is stupid. It reminds me of going to the store to buy a diet coke and then getting charged more because I am going to put Mentos in it to watch it explode instead of drinking it myself.

The price is the price and the punishment is the punishment.

a reply to: grainofsand

That's not accurate , I've beaten the crap out of people that I've liked and gotten along with pretty well because I got paid to.

I certainly didn't hate the guy.

Ive been in a few fights, with family, friends and strangers, not one of them was a hate crime, just boyz behing idiots.

a reply to: grainofsand

Beating someone is already a crime, don't you honestly think making it illegaler will change anything?

Your kind also thinks making it illegaler to shoot people will stop shootings.

Your lack of logic is...... Just not giving me much hope for humanity.

There will always be violence and violent people, lumping regular folks who just lost it for a few in with the hardcore criminals, will not stop hardcore criminals.

You cannot legislate human behavior, no matter how hard you try.

originally posted by: Metallicus
The whole idea of 'hate crimes' is stupid. It reminds me of going to the store to buy a diet coke and then getting charged more because I am going to put Mentos in it to watch it explode instead of drinking it myself.

The price is the price and the punishment is the punishment.

Yes, all of these modifications and qualifications are being added to existing terms which have unassailably clear meanings.

(insert something irrelevant here) Justice comes to mind.

Soon, we will have love crimes and hate justice.

a reply to: greencmp

Orwellian dreams coming true, I always think of thought-crimes when reading this hate-crime crap. Now imagine the possibilities! Hate-thought crime and (good)thought-hate crime, consider me guilty. In both cases.

Next item on the list: greed-crime... ha! Just joking, why should they.

I need one of those big ass flatscreens with cam and face-recognition now...

a reply to: grainofsand

Crimes committed against someone because of their disability, gender-identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation are hate crimes and should be reported to the police.

www.gov.uk...


All the other crimes are well within the shouldn't-report-scale then, specifically love-crimes maybe? WTF?

Are we just supposed to get headaches reading this bureaocratic nonsense, is that intentional or just plain incompetence? Kinda funny after all, in a strange way.

originally posted by: johnwick
a reply to: grainofsand

Beating someone is already a crime, don't you honestly think making it illegaler will change anything?

Your kind also thinks making it illegaler to shoot people will stop shootings.

Your lack of logic is...... Just not giving me much hope for humanity.

There will always be violence and violent people, lumping regular folks who just lost it for a few in with the hardcore criminals, will not stop hardcore criminals.

You cannot legislate human behavior, no matter how hard you try.

Did you not read my post?
I am actually questioning why 5 specific groups are protected under hate crime laws when others are not. I stated that it is no more hateful to commit an unprovoked attack upon say an Emo than someone who is of a different skin colour, or any other social group you can think of.

Please do explain where my logic is lacking?
Beating anyone for any reason is not an act of love, it is either inspired by fear if one is protecting oneself, or hate to hurt them.
I personally would wish all this silly 'hate crime' rubbish removed from legislation. An unprovoked beating is as hateful and against common law as any other.

I made this thread because I'm kind of sick of reading topic after topic where the race of attackers and victims is the focus of discussion. I live in a 97% white region, we have beatings every week for a multitude of reasons but rarely over skin colour for obvious demographic reasons. A guy beaten for being in the wrong neighborhood is no less a victim than if he was beaten for being the wrong skin colour. The crimes are equally as hateful.

I just cannot understand why people think crimes inspired by skin colour/gender/sexual preferance/religion are more hateful than those committed against any other social demographic group.

Emo is a choice.

Those listed are not -- except for religion/belief.

Doubt Emo can be considered a belief.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Haha, yes it is strange that the govt website says the should be reported to police on the 'hate crime' page, as if other crimes do not necessarily need to be reported.
It's ridiculous in fact, hate crime, and a specific 5 protected groups?! I can't think of any crimes that do not involve some hate or complete disregard for the victim of the crime.

originally posted by: Annee
Emo is a choice.

Those listed are not -- except for religion/belief.

Doubt Emo can be considered a belief.

What has choice got to do with protecting specific groups?
I can taunt and beat up a white Hungarian in my street and I will only be charged with assault, even if I'm shouting "I hate Hungarians" while I'm doing it. (I don't hate Hungarians for the record)
The Hungarian didn't choose to be that nationality.
Why would a hatred for Hungarians be less hateful than hatred for someone of a different skin colour?

'Hate crime' is a ridiculous concept if only 5 social demographic groups are protected.

a reply to: grainofsand

You've taken the phrase "hate crime", which, like it or not, has a LEGAL definition and you've given it a layman's definition (a crime carried out with hatred). So, naturally, the two are going to disagree.

The reason hate crimes came into existence is that there were certain groups of people who became victims of violence for no other reason than people's hatred of the group they belonged to.

In the US,

A hate crime is defined as any wrong doing perpetrated against a particular group of people. It is a form of prejudice directed at a group of individuals based on their ethnicity, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, religious preference, or any other defining characteristic.

Source

The origin of hate crimes dates back to ancient civilizations. One of the earliest examples is from the Roman Empire, which was well known for persecuting various religious groups. According to several historical documents, Christianity was largely tolerated by Emperor Nero until the year 64 AD, when a tremendous fire destroyed a great portion of Rome. The Emperor felt he was being blamed for the damage, so he shifted the guilt to the Christians and called for anyone who followed the religion to be punished. This led to years of hate crimes against anyone who followed the beliefs of Christianity as well as several other religious groups.

I am neither defending or criticizing the existence of hate crime legislation.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yes, I know it is a legal definition and I am questioning the specific social groups which are protected over others.
I think the whole 'hate crime' legislation is ridiculous and refer you back to my white Hungarian example.
Eastern Europeans are beaten in the UK by people who hate immigrants. They are not protected under hate crime legislation.
Surely you must see how this legislation is questionable?
Layman opinion you may say but I was paid to interpret statutory law and make/sign decisions on behalf of secretaries of state while in senior Crown service for many years.
My question is valid. But if you have no opinion you wish to share on 'hate crime' I wonder why you responded here?

originally posted by: grainofsand
But if you have no opinion you wish to share on 'hate crime' I wonder why you responded here?

Jesus! I didn't know there were specific criteria required to post in your thread... I thought this was an open discussion...

In your OP, you said: "I wonder why the focus on these 5 social groups?" And I answered that. Sorry you didn't like my response...

I think it's an interesting subject and I do understand your objection to the UK definition. I would discuss it more, but I don't need this kind of attitude.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

No need to blaspheme, although as you know I don't believe in any spiritual things! lol

You made a point of hiding your opinion regarding the definition of 'hate crimes' and I wondered what you were doing here if you had no interest in sharing your opinion. Sorry if you find some insult in that.

And your reply answered nothing, why should it be a hate crime to beat up someone because of their skin colour but not a hate crime if you beat them up for being an immigrant or say a homeless beggar?

I am questioning the law here, but if you do not share your opinion on this legislation I can't imagine we'll have much of a debate.
No offence so no need to get emotional BH.

Misunderstood, feared, hated, murdered or whatever....
What would you call it then?.
- Misunderstanding crime?
-Fear crime?
-Hate crime?
-...worse crime....?
This legislation regarding so many things for the last 40 years or so is in response to the economic situation that has been developing for at least that long.

It's just a bunch of corrupt little weenies doing favors for other corrupt weenies by creating the bureau of this or that to create another market for the courts to exploit.

Self propagating bureaucracy.

The sheep believe it is real, so it must be.....

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

I agree, crime is crime, regardless of the hate involved.
A white guy who beats up homeless white Eastern Europeans in the UK is no less hate filled than a guy who beats up people over their skin colour.
An assault is of equal consequence to the victim regardless of the claimed reason for the attack.