Brothers Beat Homless Man With Pipe, Urinate on Him, Claim Trump Inspired Attack

a reply to: theantediluvian

So no real response to the point, then?

Noted.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Actually, we got the point, but your point is not VALID.

And neither is it valid to use this news article to make your own point, i.e. that Trump is somehow appealing to some isolated conservative base with vague racial and xenophobic references.

America is not controlling immigration, even worse America has put in place preferential policies that allow those who come in from other countries illegally to take a shrinking supply of jobs from those that are already here - namely citizens. Further, the government is bringing in MORE legally to take even MORE jobs from citizens.Too many people see it, and are suffering for it, and until mow they have been silenced because 'oh its cruel to the oppressed peoples'.....now it is our citizens being oppressed.

If two psychos became unhinged because of that, well, that does NOT represent some movement, it represents two psychos becoming unhinged.

Further, off the point but to address your off-topic point, Trump's appeal is NOT some small segment of conservatives either, and that lie got snuck in just to further distort the picture you are trying to paint. That picture being one of a small hateful group of supporters trying to stir up trouble because of a political message.

Ain't flying this time around. The majority of the middle and lower class see thru it this time, and that is what is driving this train.

Responsibity is a word people seem to have forgotten, these 2 clowns did something really dumb, on top of it there blaming trump.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Responsibity is a word people seem to have forgotten, these 2 clowns did something really dumb, on top of it there blaming trump.

Fully agreed.

Second line.

a reply to: Shamrock6

They don't like immigrants. Trump doesn't like immigrants. They did something they have a history of doing, but this time they said Trump's name after they did it. Obviously the solution is to silence Trump because I don't like his message.

What am I supposed to be responding to?

They don't like immigrants? I assume that's the case; it would be a little awkward to urinate on a friend and beat him with a pipe.

Trump doesn't like immigrants? Says you. I'm not convinced that he hates immigrants at all — illegal or not — and in fact, I think he's simply saying what people like these morons wanted to here.

The solution is to silence Trump? That's some pretty overtly loaded and vague phrasing. How about disagree with? Openly oppose? Denounce? Ridicule? Call him out? Reject? Eschew? I can think of maybe a dozen other terms and phrases for what I might recommend and strangely none of them are "silence." I'm not for silencing anyone.

a reply to: theantediluvian

So we can use the actions of two people to denounce a third party who never told them they should do what they did?

So I suppose by that logic, we can denounce all of Islam because of radical Islamists. We can denounce all of Christianity because it's against abortion. But at the same time we can denounce all of the pro-life movement, because a few of them have shot up abortion clinics.

The list goes on and on.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Shamrock6

The solution is to silence Trump? That's some pretty overtly loaded and vague phrasing. How about disagree with? Openly oppose? Denounce? Ridicule? Call him out? Reject? Eschew? I can think of maybe a dozen other terms and phrases for what I might recommend and strangely none of them are "silence." I'm not for silencing anyone.

Denounce the violence against the homeless.

Otherwise, cheer Trump on, celebrate his exposure of the hypocrisy on the left and right, his willingness to challenge the establishment, to tear down the Republicans and expose the Democrats, to take on the 'third rail' issues, to not apologize for anything....

Maybe I ask too much....but what da hell thought I'd try.

Wow, Obama liberals are desperate.

You cannot even make this crazy stuff up by trying. but they do somehow and act upon it.

This is just so backwards,what happened to personal responsibility ?...oh wait of course if you are nasty enough psychotic kinda person behavior like this is kinda normal......

a reply to: lakesidepark

Actually, we got the point, but your point is not VALID.

Funny, you're the first to actually address the point which tells me the other people weren't in fact getting it. Either way, you're giving me entirely too much credit. I wouldn't say that the segment he intends to appeal to with "vague racial and xenophobic references" is small. In fact it's quite large and it's been around for a long time:




I imagine he appeals to you. Are you part of the "silent majority" who want "their country back?"

America is not controlling immigration, even worse America has put in place preferential policies that allow those who come in from other countries illegally to take a shrinking supply of jobs from those that are already here - namely citizens. Further, the government is bringing in MORE legally to take even MORE jobs from citizens.Too many people see it, and are suffering for it, and until mow they have been silenced because 'oh its cruel to the oppressed peoples'.....now it is our citizens being oppressed.

I think you perhaps don't understand economics. Given your illogical hypothesis, the answer to unemployment would be to have less children. Except that's not how economies work at all. People don't just occupy jobs, they create jobs by being consumers of goods and services. Furthermore, illegal immigration stalled out at the beginning of the recession which makes no sense if employers are increasingly trying to replace American labor en masse with lower paid labor from illegal immigrants. The simply fact of the matter is that illegal immigration numbers track pretty well with employment statistics and immigrants move in to fill a vacuum at the bottom percentile of employment when better paying jobs are being created and the least paying jobs are being vacated.

a reply to: Shamrock6

So we can use the actions of two people to denounce a third party who never told them they should do what they did?

Ha. I used the words of one of these two morons to give an example, albeit an extreme example, of somebody to whom Trump's message resonates.

So I suppose by that logic, we can denounce all of Islam because of radical Islamists. We can denounce all of Christianity because it's against abortion. But at the same time we can denounce all of the pro-life movement, because a few of them have shot up abortion clinics.

The list goes on and on.

We do denounce radical Islam. Hell, we collectively embraced the term "radical Islam" so that we could denounce a specific subset of Muslims. If I feel that Donald Trump's message is one of "radical Conservatism" and that it fosters hatred and appeals to xenophobes, then why shouldn't I also denounce that message?

Is it not politically correct?

What really makes this ironic to me is that according to YOU, Trump and the attackers share a common hatred of immigrants.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I just wrote a tell all essay of all the top secret things Ive ever done or imagined I did and sent it to 30 newspapers.
Hillary inspired me.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: lakesidepark


I think you perhaps don't understand economics. Given your illogical hypothesis, the answer to unemployment would be to have less children. Except that's not how economies work at all. People don't just occupy jobs, they create jobs by being consumers of goods and services. Furthermore, illegal immigration stalled out at the beginning of the recession which makes no sense if employers are increasingly trying to replace American labor en masse with lower paid labor from illegal immigrants. The simply fact of the matter is that illegal immigration numbers track pretty well with employment statistics and immigrants move in to fill a vacuum at the bottom percentile of employment when better paying jobs are being created and the least paying jobs are being vacated.

I didn't attempt to marry your cartoons to my post, because I see them as just another attempt to make your point, i.e. trying to continue old tired arguments of the Left to tarnish anyone arguing against their progressive attempts to destroy this country and make it into some sad version of a European socialist hellhole.

I dispute your statistics, because the statistics are flawed.

First, the current unemployment numbers represent a manipulation of statistics to garner favor for Obama's policies. The number of 'citizens' (note the distinction) that are unemployed is around 10%, for minorities even higher.

Now, if you look at the numbers of jobs created since 2005, and marry those numbers to the number of immigrants (legal AND illegal) that have taken jobs in the U.S. since 2005, it marries VERY WELL, showing that ALL NET GAINS in employment made in this country have went to non-citizens, while the citizens continue to suffer.

Better paying jobs are being taken by H1-B visa holders, and the lower-paying jobs taken by illegals. And citizens are suffering.

I disagree with you assertion that the flood of illegals stopped with the recession, no it didn't. Further, Obama is bringing in as many 'refugees' as he can from the Middle East to further change the demographics of this country, and doubling down on the H1-B visas as well, to continue to suck up every job that we can possibly create here.

Consumption is down, look at factory orders for the last quarter, look at the extreme drop of goods being shipped here in the last quarter. That money being made from all those wonderful jobs you note is leaving the country.

Those are simple facts, not the fantasy you insist on painting with your wide brush.

Now, make your own thread, and I'll post on it, as this thread was originally about two psychos beating a homeless man, not Trump's campaign nor Obama's failures.

I get the feeling if those two brothers were black, the homeless man was a vet, and they blamed it on Sharpton...

This thread would have a billion stars and flags full of people dehumanising those responsible saying they're "savage beasts" & "monkeys"...
That's not hyperbole it's an actual quote from the other thread.



But unsurprisingly, the opprobrious have left us to listen to the crickets in this case.




I don't blame Trump either...
But I know people ignoring this thread would jump into this discussion at light speed if it was a scenario like I proposed above.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I get the feeling if those two brothers were black, the homeless man was a vet, and they blamed it on Sharpton...

This thread would have a billion stars and flags full of people dehumanising those responsible saying they're "savage beasts" & "monkeys"...
That's not hyperbole it's an actual quote from the other thread.



But unsurprisingly, the opprobrious have left us to listen to the crickets in this case.

I don't blame Trump either...
But I know people ignoring this thread would jump into this discussion at light speed of it was a scenario like I proposed above.

Some would. There is always those that try to make a case of something that it isn't, from whatever side of the political spectrum they come from.

With that I agree.

But, for the record, I would NOT, I would just as quickly label them as psychos too.
(but also for the record, Trump didn't advocate killing Latinos, but Sharpton....that's still up for some other discussion)

a reply to: lakesidepark

I'm with Ante to be honest...

Trump faces none of the blame, but a minutia of the responsibility...


His "anti-Political correctness", or more aptly, his own personal conservative correctness has paved the way for this to happen...

He could have been smarter in his rhetoric, his broad brushing is as Ante said, no better, or worse, than a radical cleric trying to inspire an uprising...

& let's not be mistaken, when someone says "we are taking our country back", that's left up to the listener to decipher, these two pricks deciphered it wrong, but as I say, responsibility is partly Trump's for not being elaborate or detailed in his invectives.

In my opinion, he is still not to blame, this attack is solely the fault of the two brothers, it's the warcry that Trump needs to own and reinvent.


Fair play to him calling this attack out though.

That's where the Sharpton comparison ends in my opinion, he'd likely ignore it completely after the fact.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I would disagree with the statement that Trump bears even a minutia of responsibility.
I would also disagree with the statement about 'conservative correctness'.
He just made passionate statements about real issues, and didn't try to avoid offending anyone.

Otherwise I would agree there are too many people that distort the messages from leaders and personalities, and use that distortion to justify their vile actions.

a reply to: lakesidepark

I didn't attempt to marry your cartoons to my post, because I see them as just another attempt to make your point, i.e. trying to continue old tired arguments of the Left to tarnish anyone arguing against their progressive attempts to destroy this country and make it into some sad version of a European socialist hellhole.

It takes a lot of gall (and a considerable melodramatic bent) to criticize somebody's argument as "old" and "tired" and in the same breath spout off the oldest and most tired of nonsense arguments about "progressives attempts to destroy this country." In fact, you're using EXACTLY the SAME, purely xenophobic arguments that were popular with nativists a century and a half ago. When are people going to learn? Never if they keep ignoring the lessons from history that are staring them directly in the face (just like the American born descendants of all those much hated immigrants).

I dispute your statistics, because the statistics are flawed.

First, the current unemployment numbers represent a manipulation of statistics to garner favor for Obama's policies. The number of 'citizens' (note the distinction) that are unemployed is around 10%, for minorities even higher.

Actually, I didn't present any specific statistics on employment let alone the current unemployment numbers. What you're arguing against isn't even germane to the discussion. In fact, what your saying is that unemployment is worse than reported which only tends to further support what I said about the correlation with the influx of illegal immigrants.

Now, if you look at the numbers of jobs created since 2005, and marry those numbers to the number of immigrants (legal AND illegal) that have taken jobs in the U.S. since 2005, it marries VERY WELL, showing that ALL NET GAINS in employment made in this country have went to non-citizens, while the citizens continue to suffer.

This statement is false. First and foremost, the study from the CIS — THE SINGLE SOURCE for this particular line of rhetoric — is highly misleading. It counts all illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, workers on visas, refugees, etc. Basically everyone in the US who isn't native born. Secondly, you're really painting yourself into a corner choosing 2005 as the starting year because the CIS and all the derived statements from Santorum and the like start with 2000 and the bulk of the employment growth for non-American born workers cited was occurring from 2000-2007. Not only was the CIS report misleading, they cherry picked employment data to exclude two and half million jobs held by American-born workers over the age of 65. So even if you accept the methodology of the CIS and don't exclude these jobs, their own figure has to drop to something like 70% of net job growth. That's in "simple (read: stupid) math" terms which assumes an inability to consider such factors as what sectors job growth was in and where this job growth was occurring. For instance, if a huge chunk of the job growth from 2000-2007 was in agricultural labor in California, what does that have to do with an out of work carpenter in NJ? Nothing. He's not going to pack up and move across country to get one of those super awesome, much sought after, lowest paying jobs imaginable.

Furthermore, since 2010, the trend has changed drastically with American-born workers picking up nearly 60% of jobs. There are relevant case studies showing how local and regional economies have dealt with large influxes of immigrants (which again is NOT what is happening now) so we don't have to speculate. Here's one about the impact of the 1980 Mariel Boatlift's impact on the Miami Labor Market published in Cornell University's Industrial and Labor Relations Review.

I disagree with you assertion that the flood of illegals stopped with the recession, no it didn't. Further, Obama is bringing in as many 'refugees' as he can from the Middle East to further change the demographics of this country, and doubling down on the H1-B visas as well, to continue to suck up every job that we can possibly create here.

You can disagree all you want, but all the data from every source points to the same conclusion. Instead of just disagreeing, perhaps you can try proving me wrong? I love this statement:

"Further, Obama is bringing in as many 'refugees' as he can from the Middle East to further change the demographics of this country"

How can you argue that your emotional reaction isn't based on xenophobia? You're also making up things. Where are these hordes of middle eastern refugees? As of the end of 2014, we'd only admitted about 300 Syrian refugees out of an estimated 3.2 million, despite our involvement in destablizing Syria. IIRC, we pledged to take in something like 10,000 this year. Don't trust me? Maybe you'll trust the frothy mouth far-right lunatic propagandists at WND:

Until now, the U.S. had accepted only 300 of the more than 3.2 million refugees created by the Syrian civil war in which ISIS, El Nusra and other Sunni Muslim jihadist rebels are locked in a protracted battle with the Shiite regime of Bashar al-Assad.

Meanwhile, Germany took in 30,000 Syrian refugees in the same time frame. In fact, according to the same story, we took in a total of 70,000 refugees in 2013 from 70 countries (obviously not all Muslim). To give you some idea how that stacks up against the American-born population growth, based on the most recent data we have about 11,000 births a day. That means that even if everyone one of those refugees settled permanently in the US, it only accounted for about 1.7% of the population growth.

I hope you also understand that Donald Trump has no interest in stopping work visas. So if that's a big issue with you, you're throwing your support behind the wrong person. Finally, lets not ignore Trump's actual history in terms of his support for American workers because of some crap he's saying to get elected. It's been pointed out numerous times that he outsources production of his own merchandise to foreign countries and he's confirmed it. Yet HE'S going to bring our jobs back from China, Mexico, etc. He could bring back some of those jobs at ANY MOMENT just by... NOT OUTSOURCING TO CHINA TO MAKE AN EXTRA BUCK FROM EVERY STUPID TIE HE SELLS. Yeah, he loves American jobs. Anybody can step up to a podium and start blabbering nonsensically. Lets see "the Donald" actually act on his rhetoric and bring some jobs back to America starting with the manufacturing he outsources to foreign countries.

Now, make your own thread, and I'll post on it, as this thread was originally about two psychos beating a homeless man, not Trump's campaign nor Obama's failures.

You're a wealth of misinformation right down to the fact that you failed to notice that I STARTED THIS THREAD.

a reply to: theantediluvian

You're a wealth of misinformation right down to the fact that you failed to notice that I STARTED THIS THREAD.

Hahaha.

That was some classic icing on a beautifully crafted cake.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I see that he started this thread. And very well proved that his intention was tie the beating of a homeless man to politics. Now he can't even stay on his own topic.

I will address the statistics later. In some other thread.

To address them here is to FIRST buy into the OP's delusion he is trying to create by linking the actions of two psychos to political speech, and trying to attack a candidate he disagrees with by using propaganda with linking this horrific crime to that candidate's positions.

The OP not only failed to keep the thread on-topic, but intentionally baited to pull everyone OFF-TOPIC to make a false political argument, creating the appearance that the first premise he presented has merit.

Shouldn't have fell for the trap, as now the OP has his political platform and makes the impression his first premise (that two psychos beat a homeless man inspired by Trump) is true. IT is not.