Threads Challenging Religion: Why???

a reply to: Boadicea

To answer your question, I don't believe we are simply a product of untampered with evolution. There is something more to us, but I wouldn't call it God. Although some may have incorrectly interpreted it that way. I have a cool theory that is far too long to spell out here that involves something like a God and ends with everyone and everything being one...just not in a single form. I guess it is as good as any other theory or belief, and doesn't discount anyone's religion or God.

Yeah...free will. Something I would fight for and defend until the end. But something for which we have proven ourselves undeserving. Stated shortly...if were weren't the most intelligent, most powerful creature on Earth...we would likely be a lot better inhabitants. If we were busy feeding ourselves and sheltering ourselves...maybe we wouldn't be destroying ourselves. Idle hands?

I don't have much faith in "my fellow man" and none in a God. Honestly, I believe there are too many people in the same position and I believe that contributes to the state of our society. We have either lost our way...or our way itself is lost. This would probably be a very good time for either an apocalypse...or for the appearance of God. But at this point, we are our own Devil.

a reply to: Boadicea

Every single one?

Yes, every single one

Right here on ATS there are many Christians who do not resemble your remark

I suppose that is possible, but I have yet to see one.

I say this as gently as I can: Who is really being extremely judgmental?

I can be judgmental, I am not, nor do I claim to be a Christian. I do, however, have a trait that many "Christians" on here sorely lack, and that is empathy. I don't judge all Christians under one blanket, but the ones on here who call themselves "Christian" that I have seen have no problem judging an entire section of our country under one blanket, like the poor. They're ready at a moment's notice to call for blood against other countries, just look at any thread concerning Iran. They're more concerned with money, themselves and just being "better" than someone else.

Now, I don't know YOU, so I am not lumping you in with these people. For any true, or as true as can really be Christians, I respect your faith, and I respect you for doing what any decent human being should be doing regardless of religion

originally posted by: mymymy
the ones on here who call themselves "Christian" that I have seen have no problem judging an entire section of our country under one blanket, like the poor. They're ready at a moment's notice to call for blood against other countries, just look at any thread concerning Iran. They're more concerned with money, themselves and just being "better" than someone else.

Would you like to link the thread or post where I have done any of these things, or else admit that your knowledge is incomplete?

a reply to: DISRAELI

I don't judge all Christians under one blanket, but the ones on here who call themselves "Christian" that I have seen

Perhaps you missed that part. I readily admitted this

For any true, or as true as can really be Christians, I respect your faith, and I respect you for doing what any decent human being should be doing regardless of religion

I also said this, and I sincerely mean it if you are who you say you are

a reply to: mymymy
It does illustrate the point that making sweeping assumptions about "all" can be a procedural error, if you don't have the information to match.

a reply to: DISRAELI

But as I stated, "all that I have met". There are millions I haven't met and I respect that they believe what they believe. I will not put them down or anything, I'm more ( a tad more at least) mature than that.

However, if people throw stones at me I will throw them back (No not at you)

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Boadicea

I have a cool theory that is far too long to spell out here that involves something like a God and ends with everyone and everything being one...just not in a single form. I guess it is as good as any other theory or belief, and doesn't discount anyone's religion or God.

It really only has to be valid for you. In a way, all any of us really have is a working theory that we tweak with the benefit of experience, new ideas or information, etc. Do you like discussing your personal beliefs? Or to just read about others' beliefs and experiences?

If we were busy feeding ourselves and sheltering ourselves...maybe we wouldn't be destroying ourselves. Idle hands?

Idle hands and so much more. We live so far from nature and nature's laws... and each other.

I don't have much faith in "my fellow man" and none in a God. Honestly, I believe there are too many people in the same position and I believe that contributes to the state of our society. We have either lost our way...or our way itself is lost. This would probably be a very good time for either an apocalypse...or for the appearance of God. But at this point, we are our own Devil.

I cannot argue (as much as I wish I could). All the more reason we all need to learn to talk to each other and listen to each other, to respect and protect and take care of each other. But nothing is hopeless. There are some pretty amazing people all around us. We may have to hit rock bottom first, but I think we'll figure it out.

a reply to: mymymy

Now, I don't know YOU, so I am not lumping you in with these people. For any true, or as true as can really be Christians, I respect your faith, and I respect you for doing what any decent human being should be doing regardless of religion

Thank you. I appreciate that. I hope I can be a better rep for Christ than others have been for you -- and that many others will rise to the occasion as well. Just don't expect too much. I am a mere mortal!

I appreciate that you took the time to write a thoughtful and honest response -- and I thank you again for that.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Hmmm... I'm intrigued.... I'll have to watch for some of your posts. For some of us at least, we have considered and examined our faith in such depth, that while you may be able to give us something new to think about and maybe even expand our faith, there's probably nothing you can say that will change our faith. However, all bets are off when it comes to organized religion! Seeds of doubt are easily planted -- by them!

Organized religion, personal religion.. close enough to one and the same in my opinion. Depending. I see a lot of people that try to distance themselves from organized religion and point out the corruption, or enemy within. To them it's all about a personal relationship with their creator. Good for them. But for me it makes no difference in terms of what I view the reality is.

And yet you managed to be quite thoughtful and reasoned here... so I'm thinking you probably aren't too rude and obnoxious about it!

I don't think I am, usually. I definitely can be sometimes. Plus, in discussion on such a sensitive subject one can often perceive hostility that isn't there.

P.S. I don't post that often. I tend to come and go.

a reply to: Boadicea

No need to thank me, but you've actually made me see that Christians take a lot of flak for the loud minority.

a reply to: TzarChasm

otherwise, quit bitching and find a creationist/ID site to post on without being fact checked.

This poster keeps making the point that the OP was trying to make very well, THIS PARTICULAR FORUM MOVES BEYOND THAT, that issue is to be debated in the creation/origins sub-forum, and I have spent many hours posting and making threads in there. I have created 17 threads in that forum since I joined ATS, so I am well aware of where the debate needs to be on this at ATS, are you ???

You seem to be challenged in understanding this concept, and I am sorry for that.

originally posted by: Boadicea
...........
And the flip side of that coin is that every thread is an opportunity to enlighten man for there is no greater ignorance and delusion of man than their belief of "no God." Not trying to judge one way or another... just trying to look at it from different angles.
........

Enlightenment is “like” talent…it is something that is given(for an unknown reason or cause) as a state of being .Someone who is talented IS talented they don’t “have” a talent.It is a state of intuition..something they know without acquisition. The state of being in talent can’t be learned by any method.It can’t be passed from on person to another by any method.

The talented have to “practice” their gift to exercise it’s potential.When they acquire the experiential skills of their talent by experience they may be able to pass some mechanics to another person who is untalented by teaching(with a very low degree of return unless their talent is also teaching) however they cannot give or teach their talent.

I’ve never met anyone who claimed to be enlightened that was even close to being wise and had true understanding.They make a legion of claims from being born again,being awakened by the spirit,ascending to higher levels of consciousness,”being light”.etc etc….however the proof is in the putting and there is zero enlightenment “state of being” demonstrated by any person.

Here lies the problem with studying holy books.Billions say they have read or studied the holy books yet none have even put the information in them into practical practice.It is a lot of talk about “spirituality” with zero power.If someone read and studied books on body building and their body looked like Gandhi’s body I would safely assume they knew nothing about body building even though they may be able to quote from their body building books like a parrot.

The biggest disconnect of studying books is to study holy books to know a God.There are no books that can be studied in preparation because none of the books contain a knowledge of a creator God.That is the great fallacy believed by billions with their “holy scriptures” beliefs.All those scriptures can do is inform and instruct “religion” because there is no life(spirit) in them.They may as well be written in Martian because they cannot enlighten anyone no matter what the person believes.

The folly of that endeavor should be painfully obvious .The studious of holy books believe they know what the scriptures mean by their belief in faith which is completely futile.Belief in faith by it’s very function is not knowing.

The fact is the game of religion is a losing game.Religion has it’s purpose however it is not the end game at all.Religion(belief through faith) is the natural state of man to perceive their existence in the material realm.It is in effect a”precursor stage” of a LIFE not yet lived.NONE get to circumvent it.None get to “choose” when they ascend above it and stop playing the game of religion.

The God everyone believes in is not God and cannot be God.When a person thinks(… belief through faith) of a God…. that is the proof it is not a "true" God it is only a vain imagination of the carnal religious mind because that is the extent of mans mind perception…religion.The mind of man can discover how to start a fire,make tools,formulate equations of time and space however it cannot “know” a creator God by belief through faith because it is impossible function of the carnal mind(brain).In effect mans mind is geared for death not LIFE.

The fact is everything in the state of the physical realm will be in the state of death because it is part of what "this" life is…the “valley” of the shadows of death. The word Hades(Greek) and Sheol(Hebrew)are very descriptive they both mean…” the grave, the realm of death and realm of imperception”.The modern religious text has translated the word Hades to Hell and defined it as a place of eternal punishment when that is not what it is at all.

In effect all life in the material real is the valley of the shadows of death(Hades).The darkest shadow is the religion of religion.The nature of religion (sin..falling short of the mark of maturity) is the cause of the realm of imperception by”believing through faith” what it can’t know and believing it IS knowing.

There is no bigger delusion of perception than religion-religions belief in God, yet billions are under it’s influence.They cannot perceive the prison of their own making because they are bound inside of it by their mind.Each bar and brick of their religious prison is a tenant of faith in their religion God.They are in effect in Hades the realm of imperception.

They cannot free themselves from their own prison because they cannot perceive it exists and they are bound by it.That is why belief in enlightenment is nothing but darkness perceived as light because it is the pinnacle of blindness.It is a state of being perpetually blind but believing they have sight.It is one thing to believe a lion is just a pussy cat it is another thing to believe you know a supreme being God that doesn’t exist at all.

My point is it is futile to try to educate or enlighten someone of God.It only leads to more blindness and delusion because all that believe they are enlightened by God through their religion are the epitome of blindness.The only way to know a true creator God is if the true creator God reveals themselves to the person.There are no middlemen/priest.There is no choosing of sides.There is no ascension into higher levels of being by methodology of any kind.

Enlightenment is a state of being and NONE on the planet are in that state of being no matter what they believe.The evidence is everywhere though many choose to not believe what is fact.

..double post

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Usually whenever I author a religious thread (which happens to be the majority of my threads) it is to try and open up people's eyes to the conspiracy that is religion. This is a conspiracy site isn't it? Every religion believes every other religion is a conspiracy, yet when their particular belief is thrown in the same bag as the others they get offended. I find that a bit ironic personally.

There's no need for religion, finding God is a personal endeavor, and those who make us believe we HAVE to commune with one another (go to church) and give money to the communion hall (tithe) and who tell us to believe a book is the end all be all (imposing their own self-righteousness on others) in order to find God, they are usually taking advantage of us. I don't appreciate people being taken advantage of, so I speak my mind against such ideas.

If I help someone who is on the fence on such ideas, great, if not then maybe I've given them something to think about. I don't ever expect to convert anyone who is part of such cults because I believe they have been brainwashed into ignoring logic at all costs. That's their prerogative though, I feel sympathy for them but I can't really do anything for them.

Beautifully said!

May I have permission to use the post as my Christmas card this year?

On a serious note, I am truly on the fence with religion, and it is mostly due to the same reasons that you mentioned. I for one will have a better chance at finding God on a walk through the forest, than I would in a room of people interpreting a book, that can be interpreted a hundred different ways a hundred different people.

a reply to: Akragon

What makes you so sure that god was a "he" ?....Why would a being that can pull anything it dreams up out of it's ass at will have a gender at all?. Why would such a being have an ass at all, or intestines or a mouth or even resemble you or me?.

What was that thar word?, Anthropomorphisation ?....(sp)

Making some imaginary or real thing look more like us in order that we can more easily relate to this thing.

Many times for no other real reason that to make a sale.

a reply to: Rex282

Thank you for sharing this. Many wise words to consider there!

I'm going to read through your response again later so I can think on it further... but for now, I just want to say that I've made a point of trying to live my faith, and it sure ain't always easy! I know I fail miserably at times, but I'm still here so I still have to plug along, just trying to use what I learned the hard way. Hopefully, the old adage holds true: When we know better we do better.

a reply to: Boadicea

Because beating people over the head is the only way to deny ignorance and increase knowledge? Thoughtful and reasonable discussion facilitates an exchange of ideas and knowledge that is far more practical, productive and efficient than snark, insulting and bullying, which immediately tells the other person that you cannot be trusted, and therefore neither can your words -- no matter how all-knowing and all-seeing you may think you are.

The integrity and value of ATS would only be strengthened. Again, ignorance can be denied and knowledge increased through a reasoned and thoughtful and respectful discussion. I'm rather disheartened, though not surprised, that you cannot understand that.

i believe it was blue_jay33 who posted a snippet about discussing algebra while debating the accuracy of addition. much like mathematics, rigorous testing by minds much more keen than yours or mine have resulted in theorems which have yet to be demonstrated as false. the premises presented in the religious forum concern matters which are subject to these "rules", and the suspension of these rules in order to preserve the integrity of the premises is a detriment to the spirit of ATS. why bother having such a discussion on a forum dedicated to "denying ignorance" if your only efforts are to protect it? there are many, many other sites more than willing to discuss the concepts you and others seek to promote or explore here, if you wish to do so without being peer reviewed. it is your right to post here, but its not your right to declare a subject immune to skeptical analysis.

i have said my piece. have a nice day.

a reply to: TzarChasm

it is your right to post here, but its not your right to declare a subject immune to skeptical analysis.

You're right -- and I never meant to claim it was. I was only referring to the guidelines already established by ATS. And, of course, explaining the benefits of friendly discussion in the effort to deny ignorance.

i have said my piece. have a nice day.

Thank you -- same to you!

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: Akragon

What makes you so sure that god was a "he" ?....Why would a being that can pull anything it dreams up out of it's ass at will have a gender at all?. Why would such a being have an ass at all, or intestines or a mouth or even resemble you or me?.

What was that thar word?, Anthropomorphisation ?....(sp)

Making some imaginary or real thing look more like us in order that we can more easily relate to this thing.

Many times for no other real reason that to make a sale.

Lets make one thing clear... I don't think God is "human"... or even human like...

personally I think God would be incomprehensible to us, but we use the words we're given to describe "HIM" to the best of our ability...

As I've stated previously... Jesus called him Father... I'll stick to what he called God...

Notice also he didn't use YHWH... and also stated that people have not seen or heard God... Yet the OT God walked with people...

a reply to: Boadicea

It's because the motto of this site is 'deny ignorance'. And most forms of brain-washed, sheep-following religious doctrines are pure ignorance. That is all. Some people do take it too far, of course, but what do you expect?

Spirituality is welcome here in my observations. It is only organized religions that cop a beating. And for good reason in my opinion.