It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Threads Challenging Religion: Why???

page: 5
19
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 04:18 AM
link   
I would say most people do it about Christianity because every single "Christian" I have ever met or talked to are hypocrites or extremely judgmental. They condemn certain sins and condemn people to hell for them (i.e.homosexuality) but gloss over or ignore the ones they do commit (there's a slew of them)

Basically, when they agree with the Bible, they take it literally, when they disagree with it, that's when the Bible is meant allegorically or metaphorically

Something they all need to learn is:




Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV) 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?




posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 05:09 AM
link   
The way I normally put it is if you see someone walking the wrong direction towards their intended destination, do you not want to help them? Would they appreciate your intervention for helping them get there quicker.

When you see some people's warped perceptions of history and life I genuinely want to help them. Sod the deny ignorance crap, I want to help. If you don't they spread their thoughts onto the next generation, another generation wasted that won't embrace the progression of the human race, through scientific advancement. I wish someone highlighted to me at a much earlier age the mechanismsh of religion as i could have possibly had a more "open mind" for more years, which could have dramatically changed my life and desire to help those outside my preselected group by a deity.

I admire the power of religion, but hate it and it's affects on humans that would be recognised as intelligent if it wasn't for their exposure to a book that warps their conclusions that limits critical thinking and open mindless.

Gist of the response, want to help. If you can get 1 person to reevaluate their life and religious beliefs, job done. I think alot of people on ATS who were indoctrinated at a young age are eternally grateful for such threads as it has released them from the shackles that is religion.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 05:17 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

The asking of the question is far simpler than the answering of it in this case.

Many people have been negatively affected by religious affairs, either from within their own faith, or a faith not their own. Many more still have been turned away from all religious interaction by their experiences. The reality is that there is no one good answer which fits your query, because the routes by which one might arrive at a contrarian point of view, which might lead one to bait those of a different viewpoint, are many and various, and not all alike in any way what so ever.

Some arrive at a general distrust of all religious activity by way of previous interaction with a faith or faith organisation which has failed to maintain standards, or without the sugar coating, allowed kiddy fiddlers and bastards of every stripe to infest its power base, like the Roman Catholic Church, for example. Others may have merely reached a conclusion based on their understanding of the universe and of science, that either God is non-existent, or unnecessary. Personally, I believe that view is flawed, despite my understanding of those subjects being quite advanced for a layperson.

Some further still refuse to accept the existence of God or gods, because the things which befall the innocent appear to them to be things which could not happen under the watchful gaze of a benevolent creator being, and thusly decide that either God does not exist, or is a giant bastard.

Some merely believe that there is no greater power in the universe than their own, despite the existence of black holes, magnetars, and a whole plethora of other forces in the universe far more staggering than the might of a human soul, or animus for want of a less prohibitive and faith based word. There are, likely as not, a great many routes of thought and so called logic which would lead a person to refute the idea of a higher power in the universe, which I have failed to cover in my post.

However, all of it stems from a persons individual experiences and psychological construction. The combination of the quality of their nature, mixed with the quality of the nurture they have received. Personally, I believe in God, and respect science. I also respect the fact that not everyone believes like I do, without wanting to force my beliefs on others. It is not necessary for me, that others take up my view, only that I be allowed to hold it without being chastised for it, and allowed to speak my mind upon it, and informed by it, when prompted to do so.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 06:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Boadicea

Regardless of your position, you have a a terrific thread going with your measured responses to any and all worthy of a response.


Thank you.

I have to give most of the credit to those responding though, because I've gotten some really great responses. Very thoughtful and expressive. It's given me much to think about. And appreciate



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 06:24 AM
link   
a reply to: boymonkey74


Because it needs to be fought.
It is the cancer of humanity.


Awww, you don't have to mince words... next time, tell me how you really feel! Just kidding.

I can certainly understand that and share that feeling to a great extent. Organized religions have done much good in this world, but they have also done much evil in the name of God, and continue to do so. The spirit may be willing, but the human flesh (and ego) is weak. Like anything, religion is -- and has been -- too easily corrupted.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 06:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
For me, when I do it at least, is a mixture of two things. Mostly hopes to get those of faith to consider things from a different perspective.


Different perspectives are always a good thing. Sometimes it changes your own perspective, sometimes it simply expands and tweaks your perspective, sometimes it even reaffirms our perspective. Knowledge is power.


Anything I can do to plant seeds of doubt that may grow into a more critical look at beliefs is a plus.


Hmmm... I'm intrigued.... I'll have to watch for some of your posts. For some of us at least, we have considered and examined our faith in such depth, that while you may be able to give us something new to think about and maybe even expand our faith, there's probably nothing you can say that will change our faith. However, all bets are off when it comes to organized religion! Seeds of doubt are easily planted -- by them!


Then there is that part of me that likes to rock the boat and there is some guilty pleasure in knowing how some people on here must view me as the enemy, in a manner of speaking.


And yet you managed to be quite thoughtful and reasoned here... so I'm thinking you probably aren't too rude and obnoxious about it!
edit on 28-8-2015 by Boadicea because: formatting



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 06:54 AM
link   
a reply to: NthOther


Anyway, the problem with rabid Atheists, who live to spam forums with their particular brand of nonsense, is the same as it is with rabid Statists (and they are more often than not one and the same, as many have simply substituted the state for a god)--acute sociopathy. They simply cannot stand the fact that other people believe and do different things than they, the indisputably more learned (obviously), do.


For a few, that is so very true... and so very sad. To be fair though, there are certain instances when the religious can be equally statist in attitude so to speak, but expecting the state to impose their religious will.


Egotism run amok, the hypocrisy of the so-called "tolerant" writ large. But they don't care. They'll just gang up on you and shout you down until you shut up, regardless of whether it actually makes sense or is even on-topic. Argumentation by intimidation. Childish. Nonsense.


Ah yes, the ego.... and the bully. It's ugly and hateful and hurtful. And the saddest part is that I think it hurts them most of all and they don't even realize it.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 06:57 AM
link   
Why can't people challenge religion? It's insane that people think their beliefs should be respected, beyond criticism and ridicule. Your free to challenge ridicule insult my beliefs, but I generally keep them to myself. This whole respecting others beliefs is non sensical.
Do I have to respect those with nazi beliefs, those who believe pedophilia should be legalised. Why must religion be a special case?



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: mymymy

I would say most people do it about Christianity because every single "Christian" I have ever met or talked to are hypocrites or extremely judgmental.


Every single one? Really? I suppose it is possible, but not probable. Not to say that there no Christian hypocrites or Christians who are extremely judgmental, but they cannot and do not represent all of Christianity. Right here on ATS there are many Christians who do not resemble your remark. I say this as gently as I can: Who is really being extremely judgmental?


Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV) 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


That's very good advice for us all regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:14 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Has it ever occurred to you that you are discussing religion here on ATS— in the context of CONSPIRACIES, on a site dedicated to CONSPIRACY THEORY?



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:28 AM
link   
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
We need to distinguish, because there are two forums involved.
Your comment is valid about the "Conspiracies in Religion" forum, which was set up to discuss the conspiratorial aspect of religion.
But this thread is part of the "Religion, Faith and Theology" forum, which belongs to the "Off-topic" (that is, NON-conspiracy) half of the site.
If anyone feels that religion is a conspiracy which needs to be attacked, then "Conspiracies in Religion" is the place to do it.
The "Theology etc" forum is a place to discuss what religious teaching and experience actually says.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:35 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

Fair enough. I never understood the need for this forum really. Couldn't they just have the one and just call it Religion? It's like having a forum about shoes, and another one about believing in shoes. Why both?
edit on 28-8-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:39 AM
link   
I guess you could call me an Atheist. I don't believe that a God exists. But I wish God did exist. Not the God of any religion, but what an all-powerful, omnipotent, loving God would be to his/her children (us). I would assume this God would destroy man made religion (which they all are) and in turn, end most wars. Slap us away from our reliance on wasteful technology and our selfishness. Remove our need to label others and maybe even our ego. In short...fix what we have made and become, and place us in true peace with everything.

But sadly...it ain't gonna happen. Why argue religion??? It is pointless. And I'll quote myself from a band I was in long ago..."My love of God dictates my hate for religion".

To specifically answer the question of why argue religion. I believe it is most likely a bunch of scared people worried that their God will not be recognized. People who have devoted their lives to something, believe in something being told they are stupid. Them's is fightin' words...as they say.
edit on 8/28/2015 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:45 AM
link   
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
The whole "Off-topic" half of the site is for people who just want to talk about things which don't have a conspiratorial aspect.
There is an automobile forum for people who like cars, and just want to talk amongst themselves about cars, and a TV forum for people who like TV, and want to talk about TV programmes, and a religion forum for people who like religion and want to talk amongst themselves about what it says.
"I don't see the necessity" is not a valid reason for objecting, on its own. What injury has it given you?



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 07:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: rossacus

The way I normally put it is if you see someone walking the wrong direction towards their intended destination, do you not want to help them? Would they appreciate your intervention for helping them get there quicker.


Your premise is valid; it's natural (at least for some of us) to want to help those we see heading for trouble. I'm not sure how much success you have convincing others that your way is the right way though!


When you see some people's warped perceptions of history and life I genuinely want to help them. Sod the deny ignorance crap, I want to help. If you don't they spread their thoughts onto the next generation, another generation wasted that won't embrace the progression of the human race, through scientific advancement.


Yes, but there will always be those who resist change, not just for religious reasons. And there are those who will not let people of faith embrace scientific advancement. I have just recently been told that it is disgusting and unethical for me to integrate modern scientific advancement into my faith. Apparently, some people have decided it's an either/or situation... either I accept their version of religion or I accept their science, and never the twain shall meet.


I admire the power of religion, but hate it and it's affects on humans that would be recognised as intelligent if it wasn't for their exposure to a book that warps their conclusions that limits critical thinking and open mindless.


I would suggest that it's not the book that warps minds.... but rather that the mind warps the book -- at least the wisdom and virtue within that book. People see and believe what they want. Take the Proverb, "Spare the rod and spoil the child." Are we being instructed to spare the rod and to spoil the child? Or are we being warned that if we spare the rod then we will spoil the child? I'm sure some child abusers would use that Proverb to justify their violence and abuse.


Gist of the response, want to help. If you can get 1 person to reevaluate their life and religious beliefs, job done. I think alot of people on ATS who were indoctrinated at a young age are eternally grateful for such threads as it has released them from the shackles that is religion.


Yes, the shackles of organized religion can bind the mind and heart, and to be liberated is indeed a blessing. But I would remind that there is a very big difference between religion and faith or spirit, if you will. Only those shackled to a book could be liberated... those of true faith do not put their faith in a book or in a religion, and it is impossible to "liberate" one from the true freedom of faith in spirit.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Boadicea

The asking of the question is far simpler than the answering of it in this case.


So true!!!

And the rest of your post was spot on and beautifully said. I have nothing to add except well done! And thank you!!!



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:02 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

Generally I don't like schism and divisions, for it contributes to faster fragmentation and decay, but yeh I see the point. It's also a site for the supernatural and the unknown, and I guess these discussions are relevant from other viewpoints than purely through the spectacles of a conspiracy theorist. I still don't see the need for two forums about religion, there aren't that many people discussing it anyway.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:16 AM
link   
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I'll give you a couple of other examples.
There is a forum on "Diseases and pandemics", which is conspiracy, and another forum on "Health and wellness" which is not.
There is a forum on "Cryptozoology", which is conspiracy, and a forum for "Pets", which is not.
"Education and Media" is conspiracy, "Television" is not.
We have two forums for "Predictions"; "Predictions and prophecies" is supposed to be about predictions which have been published elsewhere, while "Dreams and predictions" (which is technically an off-topic forum) is for the predictions which members have come up with themselves.
Anyone who wants to talk about the environmental disadvantages of car ownership can probably do it in one of the conspiracy forums like Peak Oil. I don't suppose they start aggressive threads in the automobile forum itself (though I haven't actually checked).
Perhaps the best example yet; the Off-topic section has a forum on "Politicians and people". You would have thought THAT was adequately covered in the conspiracy forums, but perhaps they just want a place to discuss the non-conspiracy side of things, eh?

And the two "religion" forums are not occupied by the same people. I, for one, don't normally start threads in "Conspiracies in religion".


edit on 28-8-2015 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:26 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

My point is still that when you discuss religion here on ATS you're bound to be ridiculed by some who consider the whole religion business to be a turkey. Worthy a few rants every now and then. It's a tough world out there, and even with the good lord himself around you were sheep among wolves, so in stead of moaning and gnawing teeth about the bad atheists expressing their dismay, rather— be ye wise as serpents and humble as doves.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:08 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

This forum used to be tucked away in something called BTS, it was sort of separate from ATS, it attracted less attention from the skeptics and more attention from the faithful to discuss religious based topics without every third person coming in and saying, the bible is a myth, and God equals the the flying spaghetti monster in the sky.

Actually I wish the MODs would enforce the T & C rules posted for this forum shown at the beginning, if we want proper discussion in this forum these trolling post need to be purged. As per the comments below they are in fact trolling this particular forum, there are two other forums mentioned where they would not be considered trolling.

I would love to be a moderator just to moderate this forum alone




Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being? Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.

Don’t forget that there are several other forums that deal heavily with religion were the existence of a God isn’t taken for granted. Conspiracies in Religion constantly deals with the issue of religion being simply a fictitious control mechanism for manipulating the masses (Sheeple to some). Origins & Creationism Conspiracy is a fantastic forum for debating evolution vs. intelligent design. These two forms regularly deal with most of issues that usually distract from deeper topics in this forum. These two forms regularly deal with most of issues that usually distract from deeper topics in this forum.

edit on 28-8-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
19
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join