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Threads Challenging Religion: Why???

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posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:24 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Boadicea

Has it ever occurred to you that you are discussing religion here on ATS— in the context of CONSPIRACIES, on a site dedicated to CONSPIRACY THEORY?


I believe Disraeli answered your question for me.




posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Utnapisjtim


We need to distinguish, because there are two forums involved.


Thank you for answering so eloquently. Your answer pretty much sums up my position and so I will let it stand on its own merits!



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
This forum used to be tucked away in something called BTS, it was sort of separate from ATS, it attracted less attention from the skeptics and more attention from the faithful to discuss religious based topics...

The key element in the change, I've always thought, is that BTS did not have a Recent Posts page. So nobody even saw a thread in the Religion forum unless they made a special point of entering the forum.
One of the first effects of having a Recent Posts page was that critics of religion began complaining that religious topics had "suddenly" increased in number and were beginning to take over (and we had to explain that these threads were just becoming more visible to the casual browser).
Anti-religion threads are now possibly a slight majority in the forum, which has almost overcome the tendency to complain about an excess of religion.
edit on 28-8-2015 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I guess you could call me an Atheist. I don't believe that a God exists. But I wish God did exist.


May I ask if you believe in any higher power or intelligent design or anything like that? I know that many atheists are not a-spiritual so to speak. One poster called it a "cosmic consciousness."


Not the God of any religion, but what an all-powerful, omnipotent, loving God would be to his/her children (us). I would assume this God would destroy man made religion (which they all are) and in turn, end most wars. Slap us away from our reliance on wasteful technology and our selfishness. Remove our need to label others and maybe even our ego. In short...fix what we have made and become, and place us in true peace with everything.


That would indeed be wonderful. But that is apparently not how it works. Mankind was given free will and this is how we choose to exercise that will.


Why argue religion??? It is pointless.


Yes, indeed, it is. By definition, faith cannot be quantified or measured or even sensed by any of our physical sense. It is elusive and intangible. It cannot be proven or disproven. We can only accept that some have "it."


And I'll quote myself from a band I was in long ago..."My love of God dictates my hate for religion".


I like that -- thank you!


To specifically answer the question of why argue religion. I believe it is most likely a bunch of scared people worried that their God will not be recognized. People who have devoted their lives to something, believe in something being told they are stupid. Them's is fightin' words...as they say.


True, but that goes both ways. On the opposite side of the coin, there are a bunch of scared people worried that God will be recognized. But in both instances, it speaks to their own doubts and insecurities.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Boadicea

This forum used to be tucked away in something called BTS, it was sort of separate from ATS, it attracted less attention from the skeptics and more attention from the faithful to discuss religious based topics without every third person coming in and saying, the bible is a myth, and God equals the the flying spaghetti monster in the sky.

Actually I wish the MODs would enforce the T & C rules posted for this forum shown at the beginning, if we want proper discussion in this forum these trolling post need to be purged. As per the comments below they are in fact trolling this particular forum, there are two other forums mentioned where they would not be considered trolling.

I would love to be a moderator just to moderate this forum alone




Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being? Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.

Don’t forget that there are several other forums that deal heavily with religion were the existence of a God isn’t taken for granted. Conspiracies in Religion constantly deals with the issue of religion being simply a fictitious control mechanism for manipulating the masses (Sheeple to some). Origins & Creationism Conspiracy is a fantastic forum for debating evolution vs. intelligent design. These two forms regularly deal with most of issues that usually distract from deeper topics in this forum. These two forms regularly deal with most of issues that usually distract from deeper topics in this forum.


let me see if i understand correctly here. the religious forum of ats is the ONLY forum, according to you, that is exempt from the encouraged practice of vigilantly sniffing out BS wherever it may be found and calling it on the spot for the benefit of those unable to discern it for themselves? if i may be so forward, it seems your distaste for skepticism is less out of concern for the integrity of the site and more out of concern for the integrity of the BS.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33


Actually I wish the MODs would enforce the T & C rules posted for this forum shown at the beginning, if we want proper discussion in this forum these trolling post need to be purged.


That would be great -- one forum for discussion and one for debate. But I don't fault the mods. They have a fine line to walk in trying to moderate those who do not want moderation!

And even the trolls and their snarkiest comments serve a valuable purpose, though not the one they think. As someone once said, "Everyone we meet gives us a gift... sometimes that gift is simply showing us who we do not want to be."



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


The key element in the change, I've always thought, is that BTS did not have a Recent Posts page. So nobody even saw a thread in the Religion forum unless they made a special point of entering the forum.
One of the first effects of having a Recent Posts page was that critics of religion began complaining that religious topics had "suddenly" increased in number and were beginning to take over (and we had to explain that these threads were just becoming more visible to the casual browser).


Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know that, and it explains much for me.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea


That would be great -- one forum for discussion and one for debate. But I don't fault the mods. They have a fine line to walk in trying to moderate those who do not want moderation!


that would require splitting every forum into two - one for those interested in denying ignorance, and one for those who are not.

how does this site hope to maintain the integrity of its initial premise when it makes active efforts to undermine that premise?

because this is what you are suggesting.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
let me see if i understand correctly here. the religious forum of ats is the ONLY forum, according to you, that is exempt from the encouraged practice of vigilantly sniffing out BS wherever it may be found

I myself would be content with the enforcement of the "on-topic" rule which is supposed to be applicable EVERYWHERE on ATS.
Too many people like to think that off-topic thread de-railing is a legitimate mode of "sniffing out BS".



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm



let me see if i understand correctly here. the religious forum of ats is the ONLY forum, according to you, that is exempt from the encouraged practice of vigilantly sniffing out BS wherever it may be found and calling it on the spot for the benefit of those unable to discern it for themselves? if i may be so forward, it seems your distaste for skepticism is less out of concern for the integrity of the site and more out of concern for the integrity of the BS.


See here is an example where a poster just totally ignores the posted forums rules, this forum moves past the debate if God exists, it really is that simple. But they can't let it be, they can't let people discuss subjects in peace without ridicule, if I post in those other ATS forums I expect it, it is the nature of ATS, but this forum is suppose to be for discourse that has moved beyond that.

An example of that would be if a group of Christians are discussing the bible viewpoints on subjects like the Trinity, Resurrection, Bible prophesy, Jesus as the Messiah, and the future of our planet; and somebody does a flyby post of "the bible and God aren't real stop wasting your time it's all BS".
edit on 28-8-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

The whole BS Turd by Turd approach is a jippo that has lost its mission. You can't counter ignorance by releasing the Cerberus on the poor sods.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I don't understand what that reply is trying to say, so i won't attempt to respond.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33


See here is an example where a poster just totally ignores the posted forums rules, this forum moves past the debate if God exists, it really is that simple. But they can't let it be, they can't let people discuss subjects in peace without ridicule, if I post in those other ATS forums I expect it, it is the nature of ATS, but this forum is suppose to be for discourse that has moved beyond that.


the solution is really quite simple: alert the moderators and let them do their thing.

otherwise, quit bitching and find a creationist/ID site to post on without being fact checked.


An example of that would be if a group of Christians are discussing the bible viewpoints on subjects like the Trinity, Resurrection, Bible prophesy, Jesus as the Messiah, and the future of our planet; and somebody does a flyby post of "the bible and God aren't real stop wasting your time it's all BS".


thats the only real reason you are concerned with "flyby posts" correct?

if that flyby post said "i wouldnt trust an atheist in office because i dont trust people who dont believe in a higher power" would you star it or criticize it?
edit on 28-8-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Boadicea


That would be great -- one forum for discussion and one for debate. But I don't fault the mods. They have a fine line to walk in trying to moderate those who do not want moderation!


that would require splitting every forum into two - one for those interested in denying ignorance, and one for those who are not.


Because beating people over the head is the only way to deny ignorance and increase knowledge? Thoughtful and reasonable discussion facilitates an exchange of ideas and knowledge that is far more practical, productive and efficient than snark, insulting and bullying, which immediately tells the other person that you cannot be trusted, and therefore neither can your words -- no matter how all-knowing and all-seeing you may think you are.


how does this site hope to maintain the integrity of its initial premise when it makes active efforts to undermine that premise?


The integrity and value of ATS would only be strengthened. Again, ignorance can be denied and knowledge increased through a reasoned and thoughtful and respectful discussion. I'm rather disheartened, though not surprised, that you cannot understand that.


because this is what you are suggesting.


No. I'm saying exactly the opposite. That's what you are stating.
edit on 28-8-2015 by Boadicea because: Spelling



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Well, let me rephrase meself. There is a high level of BS here on ATS, some might go as far as saying ATS is a site dedicated to what say people considers BS. But seeing how most people would like less BS on the site (dedicated to BS), ATS staff responded by launching this whole BS campaign involving mentioned parole about searching out and rid ATS for BS «one turd at the time».

ATS should rather embrace the BS. Secrets and the Truth are in the BS, guys. All hail the BS! And by all means anything religion-related is by nature— BS.

Check out www.thenlbs.com... or simply click the Video-link to the far left in the main navigation menu.
edit on 28-8-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
ATS staff responded by launching this whole BS campaign involving mentioned parole about searching out and rid ATS for BS «one turd at the time».

Well, that campaign has nothing to do with me, so I'll just leave the ATS staff involved to take their place in the conversation.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Well, you brought the BS term up, and I commented on that. The term BS has a highly dialectical definition here at ATS. You should look into that before jumping at the bait. There is none.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Well, you brought the BS term up, and I commented on that.

No, I didn't. Look at the post again and read it more carefully.
Tzarchasm brought the term up, and I just quoted him, repeating the phrase he used and putting it in quotation marks.
You've gone off on an irrelevant tangent.
edit on 28-8-2015 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Well, exqueeze me, for I thought you mere talking of «legitimate mode(s) of "sniffing out BS"» [sic.] which caught my attention making me yet again ponder the odd overall expressed need for finding «legitimate mode(s) of "sniffing out BS"» here at this site. Like I said. ATS should embrace the BS and bring the whole BS back to basement level. Unfortunately there is a lot of sniping and bullying here and there and eversooften one must deal with trolls and noughtwits and dread through tiresome tirades of off-topic ranting and seeing your precious threads being ruined by decaying ever-respawning zombies from Dante's nightmares. That's part of the package sort of.
edit on 28-8-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Because deeply religious people and deeply atheist people are essentially the same type of person. Both over opinionated and blind to a fault.

I hate getting into conversations about religions with both these types of people because their mind is already made up. I just grab popcorn and watch the hate and hypocrisy rain.




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