Refugee or immigrant?

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

Coming from Mexico, you are a refugee.

The "Cartel Wars" were concocted by the US when we decided to fund an obscure drug lord, and make him the biggest drug lord in the world. That war...it was us. As a proxy using SInaloa.

When people flee the violence of a war zone...they are refugees.

A"war on drugs" isnt a real war. mexico has not declared war against the US. A war is between nation states really. They are illegal immigrants if they cross over and dont request ASYLUM.

This isn't a "War on Drugs"...its a "Drug War".

Have you not heard about the huge piles of beheaded corpses piled up along the border, while Sinaloa and Los Zetas destroy their country to control the drug trade?

I provided plenty of information to get you started. Look back on the first page of the thread.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

When people flee the violence of a war zone...they are refugees.

That's just it, not all illegals are fleeing the violence of a war zone! I'm not saying there aren't any, but out of millions upon millions, year after year after year, just how many are actually refuggees? And...there is a proper way of coming here as a refugee. In over 30 years of working beside illegals, I have never met anyone from any war torn area.

It is tragic that anyone, no matter where they are from should have to deal with fearing for their lives. We have people right here in the USA who have children who can't even play in their own yards for fear of getting killed. We have shootings and stabbings all the time. We have poor and desperate people right here who cannot afford to move to the next neighborhood, never mind another Country. How can people only have sympathy for foreigners and not their own Countrymen?

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

When people flee the violence of a war zone...they are refugees.

That's just it, not all illegals are fleeing the violence of a war zone! I'm not saying there aren't any, but out of millions upon millions, year after year after year, just how many are actually refuggees? And...there is a proper way of coming here as a refugee. In over 30 years of working beside illegals, I have never met anyone from any war torn area.

Thank you. You said it clearer than i could had. And Thats gang violence Texan is referring to with the zetas and th eothers. If anything it should fall under terrorism.

a reply to: yuppa

Except in that case, WE are the terrorists. The Sinaloa operated under the protection of the DEA (and, using the DEA as a proxy).

The people leaving Mexico do it for 2 reasons mostly:

- the violence scares the everloving hell out of them.
- the turmoil our operations have created has made what was a growing and stable economy into a cesspool

Mexico, in the mid 90's, was a much stronger economy. By the late 90's, the value of a peso was beginning to close to within 1/3 of a US dollar (which is better than the 3000:1 exchange seen in the 80s). Then 2002 happened....and it slid off the cliff.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

Except in that case, WE are the terrorists. The Sinaloa operated under the protection of the DEA (and, using the DEA as a proxy).

The people leaving Mexico do it for 2 reasons mostly:

- the violence scares the everloving hell out of them.
- the turmoil our operations have created has made what was a growing and stable economy into a cesspool

Mexico, in the mid 90's, was a much stronger economy. By the late 90's, the value of a peso was beginning to close to within 1/3 of a US dollar (which is better than the 3000:1 exchange seen in the 80s). Then 2002 happened....and it slid off the cliff.

That was the DEA and it was later shut down from what i heard when their boys went rogue. People leave mexico to find a better life bla bla blah. No th emajority are law breakers who do not deserve to come to america,get benefits fo being a citizen without even becoming one and none of th edrawbacks. And MExicos ALWAYS been corrupt so im not buying that line at all.

a reply to: yuppa

Yes, that was the DEA. An American agency.

And it was "shut down after some boys went rogue"....meaning that after 9 years in operation, it was only stopped once details started leaking out. Like Fast and Furious. Which was the ATF doing its part in the DEA operation. All under the auspices of the DOJ.

Its all right there in the links I provided. The "rogue" agents were at the very top of the food chain, making rogue agencies. At which point...its not rogue anymore. Its official policy.

If illegals were so happy to leave their own country and have been here for years, why do you think they never even tried to become legal? Talk to them! They will tell you. People still think that the only reasons illegals come here is because they are desperately poor or in fear of their lives. Millions upon millions? When you are poor, you can't afford to save so much as one red cent to move anywhere, never mind go to another Country and pay for traveling, stolen identities and fraudulent documents! They don't get all the freebies in their own Country that they can get here. They come here, break our laws and get rewarded for it. Their children get free schooling on the tax payers dime and even get in state tuition discounts for college that our own kids don't get.

I have seen way too much, heard way too much from their own mouths and even have been friends with some of them. No one is going to tell me they are just here for innocent reasons. No one would turn their heads and excuse my breaking laws in another Country.

As for violence...How about all the illegals who have been arrested and deported numerous times only to come back and commit more rapes and murders and whatever? These are not refugees, these are not poor innocent nice folks! Not all illegals are innocent good guys!

We need to get the criminals out of our own Government, enforce existing laws, fine or imprison companies that hire illegals, get rid of the anchor babies and then maybe we can see some improvements. We need to care for our own poor and desperate people, not place foreigners above them!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Whatever man whatever. point is Illegals are not refugees no matter how you spin it. ENd of discussion. do not pass go.. do not collect 200 american dollars and send them back to mexico.

a reply to: Night Star

Well...this is kind of a "no kidding" type of thing.

When you incentivize a behavior, you get more of that behavior. Like, if i enjoy my son carrying out the trash, then I incentivize him to do it by giving him an allowance.

Give away all manner of free stuff...and you get people wanting to get free stuff. You can't pour coca cola on the sidewalk, then be amazed when it attracts ants.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Well...this is kind of a "no kidding" type of thing.

The fact that for many there is no path to citizenship puts the question, "Why don't they become legal?", in the same category.

a reply to: daskakik

There are people from all over the world who want to come here. Can we afford to take them all in? You can be the kindest, most compassionate person in the world, open up your home to all the poor people and eventually it comes down to feeding your own family and caring for their needs or ignoring them and keep taking in more people. There aren't enough jobs for the people we already have so let's just keep millions and millions of illegals flowing over. I fail to see the common sense in that.

It isn't that anti illegal folks are against race or color. It isn't that we don't have compassion or sympathize with the plight of poor and needy people. If it was possible to take in all the poor people of the world, why wouldn't we? We can't do that without taking away from or ignoring the ones already here on some level. How often do we hear about programs being cut, hospitals being forced to close, etc. etc.?

Why aren't all people accepted? There is a reason for that. Are the numbers of one culture way over that of all others? Do they have a criminal background? There is a reason why. Is it they are too poor and cannot contribute and will be a burden? Why do we have laws if some can be ignored? Why do we have laws when some are forced to follow and others are not?

If we have tax payers who have to pay for the burden of illegals yet can barely afford to survive themselves, how does that make sense?

Have to clean the turtle and fish tanks and bowls, so if anyone replies to me, I'm not ignoring you. I will be back.

a reply to: Night Star

None of that changes the fact that they simply can't become legal.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Night Star

None of that changes the fact that they simply can't become legal.

Then there is a reason why and they shouldn't be here.

There were some who could have applied for citizenship but said they got more by being illegal. Not good!

a reply to: Night Star

Still doesn't change anything.

People say a lot of things, doesn't make them true.

If our government or its agents creates turmoil in a foreign country, then whether we like it or not we (as The People) own that turmoil. Burn your neighbors house to the ground, it is your responsiblity to house them.

Mayan Jaguar, Mayan Express, Fast and Furious....these are just the things we know about and have proof of. The drug trade into the US is lucrative. And we have proof that our agents are involved, and enormous evidence that they are actually in charge on a global scale.

Means, motive, opportunity, along with the history of doing just these sorts of things....in the criminal justice system I think we would have enough evidence at the very least to secure some warrants. Since we are talking about the DOJ, i guess that notion is out the window, but you get the picture.

I just thought this would lighten things up a bit.

www.youtube.com...

Ya'll have a good nite.