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Refugee or immigrant?

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posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:01 PM
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Recently I came to the realization that immigrants are more like refugees. For the most part they are fleeing their countries.

What this perspective has done has helped me understand where most of the people coming here we're thinking and how we should really address the issue of people flooding our borders.

Maybe we should start trying to help solve the problems in these countries. I bet it would actually benefit us financially enabling another country to prosper. I know it's selfish to think of it in terms of economy but that's the only thing Americans see is wealth and the numbers in their bank accounts.



+5 more 
posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Haven't we been trying to help other countries prosper since WW1? Government policing, government overhauls, globalization of free market, etc? Not every country can be democratic, it causes too much corruption. Every known form of government causes corruption. It is a money game, and refugees go to nations that have money, and their goal may be to not make that money legally, which most don't since they don't pay taxes and are often not even on the employers workforce. Thus no government would know they exist or work for anyone but they took another persons job for a lesser wage and get paid under the table and the employer doesn't have to supply any sort of insurance to them. Ya, refugees is like a slave trade in a way, unless they become citizens.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:13 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



I like it! But, they can't fix it. They would rather run away. Then they will bring the same proble from where they came, because it is not the system it is how they percieve the system.

If they were worthy U.S. citizens, they should have fought to some degree to change their own country they were born and raised in. How many countries where the refugees mainly come from even have a powerful military? None, but it's not the governent or military they are fearful of, it is mob organizations, that own the government. So take that mentality and incorporate it into the system we have, and they will bow down to a government that won't kill them on the street, but will imprison them in a life of servitude as long as votes and taxes are promised in return.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?


Was it just for them to displace the Natives? No. But is it just for illegal immigrants to displace American workers? Both can't be just. One happened hundreds of years ago and the other is happening now. So why shouldn't Americans fight the immigrants? Americans are like the Natives and the Immigrants are like the pilgrims, Right?



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I have worked with many "legal" immigrants in my field of work. Many from former communist countries and banana republics.

Want to know what's funny.... Many want to instill the values, dictatorships, and corruption of their former country they fled here.

Authoritative Socialism is a common theme (Along with a never ending stories about Tito the peoples dictator). It is insane. Everything should be free. Everyone should be equally poor, etc.

The gentlemen I work or have worked with seem to idolize authoritarian political leaders and police states.
edit on 24-8-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-8-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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I have worked beside and known many illegals over the years. People seem to think that it is only poor and desperate people coming here. It cost these people a lot of money for transportation, stolen identities and fraudulent documents. Our own poor citizens can't even afford to move to the next neighborhood, never mind flee their own Country.

Many have no intentions of staying and becoming citizens, they save money only to return to their Country of origin well off. Many have one person working a regular job and their spouse works under the table yet they claim a one income household and get welfare, cheap housing, food stamps etc. All the while, their combined incomes are well over the poverty limit. Many have said that they get so much by being here illegally. They tell you how easy it is to get away with things. I got along well with them but they knew of my disapproval of what they were doing. They just shrug their shoulders.

I have seen with my own eyes how citizens that were qualified for a job would get turned away while an illegal waltzes in and gets hired instead. With millions of unemployed people, no illegal should be holding a job instead. We have our own poor people needing to feed their families. We have people choosing between life saving medicines or food etc, but all we hear about are the poor illegals. I am so tired of people ignoring their own Countrymen in favor of illegals. If we can't afford to care for our own, we have no right placing anyone else above them.

Most pro illegal people will continue at every turn to defend illegals and completely ignore the plight of their own poor and jobless people.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: muse7


Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?


Those immigrants made the USA what it is where people come from all over the world to be.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 12:38 AM
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originally posted by: iDope

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



I like it! But, they can't fix it. They would rather run away. Then they will bring the same proble from where they came, because it is not the system it is how they percieve the system.


My wife was a refugee from Cambodia in the 70's. She survived for 6th months in the jungle on her own at age 6. She and her family survived years in the Pol Pot death camps till they escaped into first Vietnam, then to Thailand. To say she ran away and did not fight implies she and her family and the rest were cowards. Far from it. Sometimes situations are beyond individual control.

What problems did her family bring? They were on welfare for EXACTLY 8 months then got on their feet and never looked back. Worked hard and bought a home. Essentially the American Dream. My wife became one of the first in her family to graduate from a University, Paid taxes, contributed to the community etc etc etc.

This country was built on immigration. Now words like immigrant and refugee have become pejoratives .
edit on 8/25/15 by FredT because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

If you are referring to Mexican immigrants you are wrong, the majority move back after saving money for 10-15 years, while paying little to no taxes, and often using government funded welfare programs in the process.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 01:00 AM
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A refugee is someone who moves from one country to another because they fear for lives.

An immigrant is someone who moves so they can relocate and start a new life in a better country.

At the moment, in Europe, there are huge problems with both. There are people displaced by conflict in the Middle East mixed with people who just want a slice of European money and opportunity. It's a very mixed bag, very confusing and highlighting a number of concerns.

Perhaps we need a new word - an "immigee"!



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 01:00 AM
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originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: onequestion

If you are referring to Mexican immigrants you are wrong, the majority move back after saving money for 10-15 years, while paying little to no taxes, and often using government funded welfare programs in the process.


I have known illegals who have done just that. One has a huge farm and nice house and the other has a big house by the ocean back in their own Country. I have heard of others doing the same. And yes they do get welfare and take advantage of the system. They even tell you how easy it is to do.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 01:11 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

Europe has a real and huge immigration problem at the moment. The biggest issue not being the economics of it but the political/religious issues of it.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 01:27 AM
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originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: iDope

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



I like it! But, they can't fix it. They would rather run away. Then they will bring the same proble from where they came, because it is not the system it is how they percieve the system.


My wife was a refugee from Cambodia in the 70's. She survived for 6th months in the jungle on her own at age 6. She and her family survived years in the Pol Pot death camps till they escaped into first Vietnam, then to Thailand. To say she ran away and did not fight implies she and her family and the rest were cowards. Far from it. Sometimes situations are beyond individual control.

What problems did her family bring? They were on welfare for EXACTLY 8 months then got on their feet and never looked back. Worked hard and bought a home. Essentially the American Dream. My wife became one of the first in her family to graduate from a University, Paid taxes, contributed to the community etc etc etc.

This country was built on immigration. Now words like immigrant and refugee have become pejoratives .


So your wife is what every refugee consists of? Or at least more than half? No, you can't say that.

This country was built on immigration? Sure. But will more immigration keep building the country? Why go to a country that exports more jobs than any other? It's going to keep driving up poverty and that is obvious.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 01:31 AM
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a reply to: FredT

Your wife was a real refugee. We have some illegal immigrants claiming to be refugees because they were told to say they were. Huge difference! Your wife has my respect.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: paraphi

Europe has a real and huge immigration problem at the moment. The biggest issue not being the economics of it but the political/religious issues of it.


Agreed. Also, while many are fleeing conflict they are bypassing refugee camps set up for them where they will be safe. In doing this they are making a conscious decision to move to Europe and so can be classified as immigrants.

The problem for Europe is whether we actually need a million young men who expect to recharge their smartphone for free. Young men, many of whom have no clue or association with European culture and have no education to speak of.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 02:19 AM
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according to the UNHCR. Just under half of them are from Syria and Afghanistan. Places that could be deemed war torn, so that would make them refugees. I doubt you risk your life and that of your family in dangerous methods if your country is stable. The other half are probably economic migrants looking to improve their lives. All of them are humans in desperate situations. It's a humanitarian crisis, not an invaision


edit on 25-8-2015 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 02:38 AM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



just like you folks are fixin' 'Merka...right???



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:35 AM
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I have been a legitimate refugee in the US from a Soviet-ruled country in the eighties and so are some of my relatives. I have a grown up daughter who prefers to speak and write English (even science fiction), another one goes to school. We are all citizens now, one of my relatives pays more property taxes per year than what middle class people earn in my country of birth. We are all paying US taxes and no one thinks the US is a free ride. No one was on welfare, out of ten people one accepted food stamps for a few months - and this is about several decades.
I have worked with other refugees to the US, Canada and Australia back in the eighties in my native language and still know many people who moved back and forth after the fall of the Soviet system.
I see the point of infolurker, and let me add that language competency is a great part of this. Many people bring biases or expectations from their home countries (and I am not talking about illegals here, only legitimate recipients of asylum). The next wave (of folks with a strong accent) usually brings an extreme swing to the right, everything that is the opposite of the Soviet model.

Those of my relatives who learned to speak pretty much accent-free and get by with their peers (and those who, like me, have raised children partly in English) are usually moderate and found a balance and they understand the idea of social responsibility like voting and paying taxes etc. Some are critical of capitalism some advocate it but no one holds extreme views.

Those (among the refugees and immigrants from my country of birth) who are the best in language competency are usually those with the most open mind.




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