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Refugee or immigrant?

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posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:14 AM
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a reply to: iDope

Many of the people that I know who fled as refugees fought until they couldn't anymore. Please tell my friend Phat that he's a coward for fleeing Vietnam, he fought 'til his family were all killed, and he was tossed into a "reeducation" camp until he escaped. Or my friends who fled Castro's Cuba because they were denounced by their neighbors.

What were they supposed to do? Enlighten me, so I can tell 'em how wrong they were to flee.




posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?


I love how people romanticize the native Americans as peace-pipe smoking pacifists. In reality, the separate tribes were constantly at war with each other and committed horrendous atrocities against each other. The 'evil' European settlers were the only ones that brought some semblance of peace to the continent.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Vector99

No, they might go home a little better off but they are not rich.


If you can go from cheap housing and welfare benefits to living on a big ranch with a nice house and animals and lots of land, or a big house by the ocean, you're doing pretty well. Our money is worth so much more in other Countries.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.



Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?


I love how people romanticize the native Americans as peace-pipe smoking pacifists. In reality, the separate tribes were constantly at war with each other and committed horrendous atrocities against each other. The 'evil' European settlers were the only ones that brought some semblance of peace to the continent.


Though I love Native Americans, I can say that you are right and they were not always peace loving. I have some Native ancestors whose tribe was almost wiped out by another tribe. They fought over land and food. They were humans beings like anyone else and fought for their survival.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Vector99

No, they might go home a little better off but they are not rich.


Oh how wrong thou art. MExicos exchange rate makes it so a poor class citizen can go baCK AND be considered upper middle or better. Dolalrs are at leat 4-5 times more than the peso. Ill post a link to th eother countries where you can live liek a king if you sve Dollars to go there.

Living like a king with american dollars abroad.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

you complain about Mexico...but what of India? One of the primary exports from the US to India is wealth.

You should read up on EB-5/EB-6. its a great program for wealthy foreigners to buy citizenship. Monies earned are then leveraged off shore, or used to prop up families. The business I am in has no shortage of indian folks invested in the US, but funneling tens of thousands back home. Or "loaning" it to cousins to participate in EB-6.

Not that it isn't helpful to us in the US as well. EB-5/EB-6 programs are a key element in capital stack plans among many entrepreneurs.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

you complain about Mexico...but what of India? One of the primary exports from the US to India is wealth.

You should read up on EB-5/EB-6. its a great program for wealthy foreigners to buy citizenship. Monies earned are then leveraged off shore, or used to prop up families. The business I am in has no shortage of indian folks invested in the US, but funneling tens of thousands back home. Or "loaning" it to cousins to participate in EB-6.

Not that it isn't helpful to us in the US as well. EB-5/EB-6 programs are a key element in capital stack plans among many entrepreneurs.


OH yeah we have tons and i mean tons of stores bought and paid for by the feds that Indians from India own and run and they dont pay taxes and normally run it as cheap as possible. Almost all of these foreighners who come here normally abuse the system.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: yuppa
Ill post a link to th eother countries where you can live liek a king if you sve Dollars to go there.

Sorry but I live in Central America.

The exchange rate of the peso is 10 to 1 but that has nothing to do with the cost of living.

I don't know what you think a king lives like but it isn't being middle class in a third world country.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

The irony of an American complaining about immigration and "foreigners" may never cease to amuse me.

Coming from a town near the Quanah Parker trail, the irony is almost palpable.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

The irony of an American complaining about immigration and "foreigners" may never cease to amuse me.

Coming from a town near the Quanah Parker trail, the irony is almost palpable.


Ironic how? I was born here. And i never heard of that trailer park. You do know i live in South carolina right?

My family has no foreign start i looked it up on ancestry before as well. My complaints come from Observations first hand dealing with many sorts of illegals and those of other nationality. I used to work beside them in the chicken processing plant in Sumter SC.
Alot of them had nice cars were on welfare and foodstamps and would brag about it openly. Every once a while though there would be a bunch of them caught using the same SS number and they would get detained by ICE but for th e most part they didnt pay taxes(except on that one SS number) and th e majority went back to mexico an d other countries with western union.

@daskakik-----
WEll since you are not in the US that info i posted will not do you any good. those are rates of return VS local currency. as in how much th edollar is worth more than the local currency IE leading to a better life that can be afforded.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

So the issue is that people are not honest enough, and abuse the system?

That's like being mad at a snake for biting you. Its just what a snake does. People will abuse whatever system is in place. And the no so great secret here is: welfare, on the whole, costs you maybe $200/year. At most.

Meanwhile, the military apparatus that we have allowed to be used to ruin their country costs each taxpayer an average of $3000 per year.

Seems like the "illegals" and you both have a common enemy: your government.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The United States military has ruined Mexico and the Central American countries?

To your previous post about irony....
You are doing something that I see often. You are lumping in all forms of immigration into one to (whether intentionally or not) make people out to be essentially racists.

I have come across a few people that sincerely want ZERO immigration of any kind. That being said, I think a more realistic assessment of the public's sentiment is:

Legal "regular" immigration: No issues

Legal "guest worker" immigration: Depends. Stories like the one out of Disney where about a thousand IT workers were fired and forced to train their H1B Visa replacements in order to get their severance package causes some concern.

Illegal immigration: THIS is the real topic at hand.

No matter what the topic is, we are always told we don't have enough money. Not enough money for schools. Not enough money for hospitals. Not enough money to maintain parks. Not enough for anything. So why in the world would we allow an unfettered stream (to put it mildly) of people to enter the nation illegally to further tax the system?

We hear all the time that there aren't enough low skill jobs for people. So why have an influx of even more low skilled employees?

Last autumn (and what I expect this coming autumn) there were reports around the country of so-called "mystery" illnesses affecting young children as the school year started. We are supposed to believe that had nothing to do with the influx of non-vaccinated "unaccompanied illegal minors"? (I know first hand about the medical exams and vaccination schedules that legal immigrants must submit to and provide documentation for).

Even if we take at face value that "most come here to work," it's impossible to ignore all the gang members that do, in fact, slip through the border time and time again. If anyone has even a passing interest, it is not hard to find stories on a daily basis of illegal immigrants committing horrible crimes. And please don't tell me that "the ration of illegal alien crime compared to the overall crime" nonsense.... If the borders were secure and we tracked those here visiting.... the crimes committed by illegal aliens should be exactly zero.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa
@daskakik-----
WEll since you are not in the US that info i posted will not do you any good. those are rates of return VS local currency. as in how much th edollar is worth more than the local currency IE leading to a better life that can be afforded.

I grew up in the states and I know exactly how the exchange rates work.

What you are not factoring in is how much things cost in other countries.

A little more buying power doesn't not mean that you live like a king.
edit on 26-8-2015 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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a reply to: eluryh22

I won't share the anecdotes gathered by myself. Mostly because an anecdote without evidence is nothing but a yarn. But the anecdotes would imply that we have operated in Mexico and Costa Rica in the 90's in support of crops.

But beyond that, you don't roll the Marines into Grenada, Columbia, Nicaragua, and Panama without creating upheaval. And when you hear about how the "illegal immigrants" are just as often passers through from South America...you can see the correlation between our presence in latin America in the 80's (that is known/documented, anyway) and the flight of people up through Mexico into the US. It would be insane to think that we could forcefully install dictators, and end up with a happy ending.

Here we have a 2013 article discussing the US Military going to do battle with the "drug lords":

www.wired.com...

Drug lords installed by DEA/CIA/ICE, and supported with our weapons.



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

So the issue is that people are not honest enough, and abuse the system?

That's like being mad at a snake for biting you. Its just what a snake does. People will abuse whatever system is in place. And the no so great secret here is: welfare, on the whole, costs you maybe $200/year. At most.

Meanwhile, the military apparatus that we have allowed to be used to ruin their country costs each taxpayer an average of $3000 per year.

Seems like the "illegals" and you both have a common enemy: your government.


LAst time i checked we have not done anything liek Iraq or Ghanistan to Mexico or any of those countries. The U S hasnt bombed india has it? Your complaint about the MIlitary is moot. Syrians are fighting other syrians as well. Currently its all ARAB vs arab and as such is not our fault. its the dummies who lived there and who didnt have the guts to die for their country.



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

So are you denying that the purpose of Afghanistan was to control the opium? Or the purpose of Vietnam was to control the Laotian opium? Or that we weren't in Columbia to control the coke?

Because I can promise you we have been in Costa Rica for the crops. My source still wakes up screaming with cold sweats from that time of his life.
edit on 8/27/2015 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

So are you denying that the purpose of Afghanistan was to control the opium? Or the purpose of Vietnam was to control the Laotian opium? Or that we weren't in Columbia to control the coke?

Because I can promise you we have been in Costa Rica for the crops. My source still wakes up screaming with cold sweats from that time of his life.


Sometimes a conspiracy is just someone saying its something its not. Official purposes of Ghanistan was ouster of the taliban as controllers. ANything after that is coincidental. The Ahghanis control their own fields now and if they want to be a narco state so be it. Its not always a conspiracy.

And youre sure your source isnt waking up because he migh thad done something bad to someone and lied so he would not be prosecuted? Its his fault and he is paying his penance for it. Vietnam if i remember was a request for aid by a ally to stop the russians/chinese moving in. The drug trade wa sa side effect yet again.
Now for columbia... i see no good reason for that at all. id let the country burn myself.

Still thats OFF TOPIC and this is about IMMIGRANTS or REFUGEES correct? COming from Mexico, youre not a refugee. coming from india? not a refugee. ANy country other than one currently in a war with itself or its neighbors is not a refugee. Ive stated this before. i t may be cruel but Logic dictates you cannot support another countries people when your own country is in trouble and your own people are starving or in trouble.
They need to head back home and face their ends with some dignity.



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Coming from Mexico, you are a refugee.

The "Cartel Wars" were concocted by the US when we decided to fund an obscure drug lord, and make him the biggest drug lord in the world. That war...it was us. As a proxy using SInaloa.

When people flee the violence of a war zone...they are refugees.



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: yuppa

Coming from Mexico, you are a refugee.

The "Cartel Wars" were concocted by the US when we decided to fund an obscure drug lord, and make him the biggest drug lord in the world. That war...it was us. As a proxy using SInaloa.

When people flee the violence of a war zone...they are refugees.


A"war on drugs" isnt a real war. mexico has not declared war against the US. A war is between nation states really. They are illegal immigrants if they cross over and dont request ASYLUM.



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