The UFO Religion

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hey KPB:

so long as its actual research and
not just more religious proselytizing
with no facts being sought or
involved.

What I'm suggesting in the totality of my responses is, our idea of what is "fact" and "science" these days should be equally in question.

Which, may, in the end, lead us all back to belief and faith, in the end, after all.
tetra

Ah.

In the end will 'science discover' that we are all facets of a blob
of transtemporal metamatter/metamind and we may all just
as well have been religious?

I can't say. I don't have omniscience.

But for now, 'science' can get us to the moon and cure diseases,
while religion can't do much of anything, except oftentimes lead
to violence and mental illness.

That said.

In my heart of hearts I'm just as much a 'shaman', which by definition
is a religious practitioner as I am a technologist and amateur
science researcher.

The only reason I can function this way, is that I was born liminal
for whatever reason.

Also, Iv'e had to find the science in 'shamanism' or I would have
just given it up..

So I'm not this heartless, cruel debunker, who can't understand
the power of religion.. I understand it all too well.

But I'd rather hook my wagon to something rational, and if all
else fails -- I'll get out my shaman pipe and whoop ass on some
evil plasma spirits.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hey KPB:

so long as its actual research and
not just more religious proselytizing
with no facts being sought or
involved.

What I'm suggesting in the totality of my responses is, our idea of what is "fact" and "science" these days should be equally in question.

Which, may, in the end, lead us all back to belief and faith, in the end, after all.
tetra

Ah.

In the end will 'science discover' that we are all facets of a blob
of transtemporal metamatter/metamind and we may all just
as well have been religious?

I can't say. I don't have omniscience.

But for now, 'science' can get us to the moon and cure diseases,
while religion can't do much of anything, except oftentimes lead
to violence and mental illness.

That said.

In my heart of hearts I'm just as much a 'shaman', which by definition
is a religious practitioner as I am a technologist and amateur
science researcher.

The only reason I can function this way, is that I was born liminal
for whatever reason.

Also, Iv'e had to find the science in 'shamanism' or I would have
just given it up..

So I'm not this heartless, cruel debunker, who can't understand
the power of religion.. I understand it all too well.

But I'd rather hook my wagon to something rational, and if all
else fails -- I'll get out my shaman pipe and whoop ass on some
evil plasma spirits.

Kev

How entertaining. However, I'm not sure science got us to the moon, or cures diseases. I'm not sure of anything.
There are other suggestions for all that, as well.

If we don't know who we are, where we are, or what the real happenings have been, obviously, then, we can't know anything about any of that. Which is why I then go back to faith.

The older I get, the more I know nothing. Used to be, one day I was science invested, the next I was faith based. These days I'm trying to live through the cognitive dissonance of all the information presented when I can't possibly know the truth of any of it…….and still get up in the morning, find the strength to cry, laugh and love.
And still face I may have been wrong about everything. These days, it may even be more comforting to be wrong.
LOL.

We do what we can, friend, to live as the best people we can be. And that's pretty much the best we can do, in these times, IMHO.
But I always appreciate your searchings…
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

Post modernism really kicks your butt doesn't it?

But the essential nature of 'reality' is slippery.

Have you read this book yet, "
The Fall: The Insanity of the Ego in Human History and the Dawning of A New Era
-Steve Taylor" ?

It's the single most helpful book to cure those wounded by religion
that i know. Well it helped me a lot. I was awfully wounded too.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: tetra50

Post modernism really kicks your butt doesn't it?

But the essential nature of 'reality' is slippery.

Have you read this book yet, "
The Fall: The Insanity of the Ego in Human History and the Dawning of A New Era
-Steve Taylor" ?

It's the single most helpful book to cure those wounded by religion
that i know. Well it helped me a lot. I was awfully wounded too.

Kev

Hmm, what wounded me most, post Modernism, or religion?

Funny. Truly.
Not knowing kicks your butt, respectfully. Sometimes, we just don't know. We're debated, in essence, the same points on at least three threads right now.

Thanks for the book. I'll check it out.
I'm not sure it was religion, or people's application of it and their actions….really. Religion was nothing but a justification and rationality, afterwards, just cause they wanted to hurt someone. I don't blame any of that on religion, God or all people, specifically. Because it's even more complicated than that. All those points of convergence result in a total non sequitoir. It isn't all of them and it isn't none of them. It's many things in conversantly, convergently and conveniently applied crap.

a reply to: tetra50

I predict that it won't be long, and you'll be 'right as rain'.

Kev

Claims of religions do not have to rely soley on faith --- given the nature of the UFO phenomenon, which has been partially based on scientific evidence --- And UFO religion can be compatible with science because it does not have a supernatural causation.

"According to Lawrence Krauss...compatibility or incompatibility is a theological concern, not a scientific concern."

"I do not agree that science is incompatible with religion and vice versa. They argue that science provides opportunities to look for God in nature and to reflect on their beliefs."

"Coulson asserted that science like religion, 'advances by creative imagination' and not by 'mere collecting of facts,' while stating that religion should and does 'involve reflection on experience not unlike that which goes on in science.'"

Quotes: Relationship Between Religion and Science --- Wikipedia

originally posted by: Erno86
Claims of religions do not have to rely soley on faith --- given the nature of the UFO phenomenon, which has been partially based on scientific evidence --- And UFO religion can be compatible with science because it does not have a supernatural causation.

"According to Lawrence Krauss...compatibility or incompatibility is a theological concern, not a scientific concern."

"I do not agree that science is incompatible with religion and vice versa. They argue that science provides opportunities to look for God in nature and to reflect on their beliefs."

"Coulson asserted that science like religion, 'advances by creative imagination' and not by 'mere collecting of facts,' while stating that religion should and does 'involve reflection on experience not unlike that which goes on in science.'"

Quotes: Relationship Between Religion and Science --- Wikipedia

I like your quotes!

I'm all for creative imagination being essential for moving
both science and religion (and philosophy and other fields)
forward.

Just admit it's 'creative imagination' and not done deal, proven
to the last degree fact, or your are an infidel and will be cast
into the deepest hell of the space brothers detention block
and I'm cool!

I love hearing the words THEORY, POSSIBILITY, MAYBE,
etc. I don't hear them much in the UFO forum or many
other forums on ATS.

Kev

Due to my Foo Fighter sighting in 1976 --- and other peoples alien starship sightings as well --- I use my creative imagination too theorize how my space brothers starships tick.

You'll have to admit --- at least I have --- that these ETE's have solved the answer for interstellar travel and magnetically contained fusion plasma technology --- and I will treat them with great respect, and idolize them as my Gaods, no less...because they have the answers and the power of advanced alien scientific technology too help save our Earth and it's civilizations.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Hi,


but rather are just using
UFO's and Aliens conceptually as a source of religion
to make themselves feel better about things in a confusing
and hostile world.

LOL you can't be serious here.
This is an insult to every believer who has researched the topic.
What a joke. smh

Your name has religious connotations and you are a pretty hard core believer. Can you shed some light on that?

I'm not religious AT ALL. In fact, I don't think I've ever posted in any of the religious oriented forums since I registered.
Let's take a look at the definition of messiah:

mes·si·ah
/məˈsīə/
noun
noun: Messiah; noun: the Messiah; noun: messiah; plural noun: messiahs
1. the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.
2. a leader or savior of a particular group or cause
www.google.com...=messiah

Number 2 pertains to me. A leader of a particular cause. That cause being unveiling what I firmly believe is the truth surrounding the UFO/alien phenomenon. Nothing more nothing less.

originally posted by: Erno86
Due to my Foo Fighter sighting in 1976 --- and other peoples alien starship sightings as well --- I use my creative imagination too theorize how my space brothers starships tick.

You'll have to admit --- at least I have --- that these ETE's have solved the answer for interstellar travel and magnetically contained fusion plasma technology --- and I will treat them with great respect, and idolize them as my Gaods, no less...because they have the answers and the power of advanced alien scientific technology too help save our Earth and it's civilizations.

Well the Sentient Plasma theory can produce all the same
effects you are mentioning, and a limited form of it has
even been sanctioned by some scientists and governments
officially. I'm just taking it further.

So I have to admit no such thing.. there is no evidence for
your position - it's all religion like you honestly stated...

Now plasma-based theories may be wrong.. but there is
some evidence for it, and some people are researching
it.

I'm simply suggesting that 'some facts supporting it' with
'some people researching it' is a lot more solid and worthy
of discussion in a rational manner than a UFO religion
which has none of that.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The only reason I can function this way, is that I was born liminal
for whatever reason.

Also, Iv'e had to find the science in 'shamanism' or I would have
just given it up..

My interest is in "religious experience" which I think is different than religion. I would put shamanism in the religious experience category. So "seeing" god is different than believing in god and following rituals.

So I see Tibetan Monks and their Mandalas, visions of god, hallucinations and ufo sightings kind of all a variation of the same thing.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The only reason I can function this way, is that I was born liminal
for whatever reason.

Also, Iv'e had to find the science in 'shamanism' or I would have
just given it up..

My interest is in "religious experience" which I think is different than religion. I would put shamanism in the religious experience category. So "seeing" god is different than believing in god and following rituals.

So I see Tibetan Monks and their Mandalas, visions of god, hallucinations and ufo sightings kind of all a variation of the same thing.

So do I.

Let me add however, that there seems to be plenty of evidence,
that at times these altered states lead to actual physical phenomenon.

Now whether there really are 'sentient plasma fields' separate from
human minds or 'dimensional visitors' when the 'poltergeist type
phenomenon (plasma activity) is strong enough - it's too early
to definitively say. That's why we need more research.

If we can ever get definitive on that, then a lot of the wrong
ideas can be put to rest, and maybe the crazy factor on Earth
can settle down to a slow roar.

Kev

a reply to: TrueMessiah

Thanks, I was always curious about that.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Let me add however, that there seems to be plenty of evidence,
that at times these altered states lead to actual physical phenomenon.

I think we talked about that before. I'm not really sold on that myself though its intriguing because I sort of "get it" on some level....the altered states part and not just the drug induced ones. I had a sleep paralysis episode recently where it really felt like I left my body and could interact physically with the real world. I know that's different than what you are talking about. maybe they are related?

www.miqel.com...

Both Valle (1979) and Meheust (1988) have noticed the parallelism that can be
found between folkloristic motifs, shamanic journeys, and flying saucer
abductions. As in other parts of the world today, the Amazon is constantly
being bombarded by exotic new images and symbols that rapidly intermingle
with traditional beliefs.

As Valle (1979:209-10) has pointed out,
the UFOs are physical manifestations that cannot be understood apart from
their psychic and symbolic reality. The UFO motif is a subject that should
not be neglected by cognitive anthropologists, depth psychologists, and
people interested in the mythologies of modern man.

www.theatlantic.com...

There are many carefully documented accounts in the medical literature of intense, life-altering religious experience in epileptic seizures. Hallucinations of overwhelming intensity, sometimes accompanied by a sense of bliss and a strong feeling of the numinous, can occur especially with the so-called "ecstatic" seizures that may occur in temporal lobe epilepsy. Though such seizures may be brief, they can lead to a fundamental reorientation, a metanoia, in one's life. Fyodor Dostoevsky was prone to such seizures and described many of them, including this:


The air was filled with a big noise and I tried to move. I felt the heaven was going down upon the earth and that it engulfed me. I have really touched God. He came into me myself, yes God exists, I cried, and I don't remember anything else. You all, healthy people ... can't imagine the happiness which we epileptics feel during the second before our fit. ... I don't know if this felicity lasts for seconds, hours or months, but believe me, for all the joys that life may bring, I would not exchange this one.

..and back to complete the circle...
www.ufobc.ca...

This is a story about the one day that changed my whole sense of reality forever

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

When I'm accused of dishonesty it
always makes me smile. More than
nearly anyone I admit to all my
flaws and mistakes with no
reservation.

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my post, I didn't accuse you of anything, nor would I.

I simply quoted where you said some very negative things about UFO proponents, after you claimed you had not said anything negative about anyone.

If I made you smile by doing that, you're welcome.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Yup. Just how real all this weird stuff
can get is an unresolved issue.

That's why it needs more research.

Kev

a reply to: Afdcs

Now THAT made me smile!

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Now THAT made me smile!

Glad I could help. That's why I'm here.

a reply to: Afdcs

I simply quoted where you said some very negative things about UFO proponents, after you claimed you had not said anything negative about anyone.

That sounds like someone was being dishonest. But there was nothing negative. Sometimes people take things the wrong weigh.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Afdcs

I simply quoted where you said some very negative things about UFO proponents, after you claimed you had not said anything negative about anyone.

That sounds like someone was being dishonest. But there was nothing negative. Sometimes people take things the wrong weigh.

I suppose that is true. Thank you.