Occasional dissolution of the universe and the Mothership

a reply to: Kantzveldt

to me it looks like an allegory about a single person. Sort of like the bible with 7 churches 7 angels 7 stars..
This has 7 sages.
I can't help but think about 7 colors in a rainbow, or rainbow bridges or 7 chakras.

the horn of the fish is like enlightenment, or uppermost point of the head, or power, courage, strength..
Fish is sometimes used as a symbol of the soul.

I don't know I'm just thinking out loud.
I also don't believe in belief..
I think this is describing quite real things that need to work right in order to cross the void..
Physics.


Just thinking out loud. I really havn't studied any of this at all.

a reply to: lostgirl

But of course it depends what the faith is in, in the case of Matsya it is the power of Vishnu, or perhaps more in particular Narayana;

Narayana is The One who rests on Water. The waters are called narah, for the waters are, indeed, produced by Nara-Narayana (the first Being); as they were his first residence [ayana], he is called Narayana. In Sanskrit, "Nara" can also refer to all human beings or living entities. Therefore, another meaning of Narayana is Resting place for all living entities. The close association of Narayana with water explains the frequent depiction of Narayana in Hindu art as standing or sitting on an ocean.

Narayana himself sustains, maintains and preserves the universe as Vishnu when he accepts sattva guna and annihilates the universe at the end of maha-kalpa

Narayana's eternal and supreme abode beyond the material universe is Vaikuntha which is a realm of bliss and happiness. It is also known as Paramapadha, which means final or highest place for liberated souls, where they enjoy bliss and happiness for eternity in the company of supreme lord. Vaikuntha is situated beyond the material universe and hence, cannot be perceived or measured by material science or logic

Narayana

Narayana is a close equivalent of Enki and his Fish star, faith in such Deities would be a pre-requisite for the continuation of life in a material sense and the righteous would be the one's that got that.


a reply to: Reverbs

Like all good stories it can be looked at from several perspectives, a point that does intrigue me being naturally lazy is why Manu didn't just hitch a ride on top of the fish, but no you have to build your own Ark it seems...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

New age yoga practitioners, at least if they've done their
homework, would make the assertion that the 'cosmic ocean'
is a metaphor for consciousness, which reigns supreme, and
is presumed to be personified as Shaiva, the 'supreme
male power'.

Now of course those who are followers of Shakti/Durga/Kali/
Parvati, etc. might disagree vociferously, and would state
that it is Shakti who sets the bounds for "Shaiva" with the
power of time.

This is to mean that it is not consciousness which reigns
supreme, but substance or structure (the female divine
attribute).

Now there are many other traditional explanations
(exoteric ones), but I believe this is "a" "true"
or at least a better one.

Now here is one sample picture:

www.exoticindiaart.com...

You will note this one has a watery theme..very interesting, no?

Time does indeed bound the 'great waters', as time is an artifact of matter
(through the second law of thermodynamics).

Now this one is a bit more traditional:

www.pinterest.com...

This is the one where Kali and Shiva are in the charnel house,
which fits Kali's motif very well.

But it too is the same metaphor, namely that death sets the
boundaries for consciousness.

While the more intelligent sorts would then bring up the ying/
yang nature of consciousness, and say that neither is supreme,
all the new age light/awareness/consciousness is all addicts
(advaita) which is so common these days harp on just a piece
of the metaphorical puzzle and miss the entire point of the
lesson.

I like to extract the wisdom from Kali astride Shiva .. it is
a truly splendid metaphorical lesson, if you go for that sort
of thing that is.

Kev

originally posted by: Kantzveldt

a reply to: Specimen

I don't know, Jonah being swallowed by the whale and resurrected or more properly reguritated after three days is an allegory of faith and would seem to owe everything to a common source with the Indian fish mythos and that became also a Christian insight.

In that scenario the giant fish or whale is representative of Divine agency and the inevitability of fate, horns generally related to expression of Divine power at the most rudimentary and archetypal level.

Who knows, maybe that where the expression "Being in the belly of the beast" may have came from, or was that Pinocchio? It is quite interesting how heavily revered fish are in this sect of mythology being for what ever reason it is, and I don't think they believed in macro evolution ether at the point since Darwin wouldn't be around for a few thousands years, so I doubt they would have gotten the idea that all life started or came from the sea.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot more legends in other culture relating to fish representing divinity or calamity, like a few in Japanese legends.
I've though about a Japanese myth that could possibly be a parallel, but unlikely, where Koi are revered as well, and one supposed story of Koi being able to become dragons.Koi fish meaning...

Also, the pic does look kind of similar to that Vishnu painting...

a reply to: Specimen

that picture does look like the other one. I see the "fish angel." Also something keeps popping in my mind about separating the waters from the waters.. Also noticing the lines connecting the angel to the man. I am not sure they are separate, or either they are directly affecting each other by their "fruit" they bare, or by frequency of what? Something..

Space Ship.. We even call it a ship that goes into the heavens.

Like in Aladdin only the "Diamond in the rough" can pass through the gates of the cave of wonders. Like star gate mythology, only the pure heart can pass without being destroyed. usually burned off if I remember. That's also in "The never ending story" movie. The kid passes through 2 angels like statues that awaken and shoot lasers from their eyes killing all the brave souls trying to pass, but the boy makes it. A lot of that movie is based on Faith. The nothing is destroying the entire universe, until the kid gives the princess a name. "You have to believe!" she keeps screaming..

Never ending story. Pretty apt name. The cover is like 2 dragons intertwined to make the infinity symbol.

But as I think I said before, I don't think of it like a place you can get to in 3d. I think it's a place in the heart/mind. Inside out.

My last name is like Fish or Fisherman. Just random thought.

a reply to: Specimen

Well snakes were revered for millenia
as they represented renewal and immortality
(they shed their skins and become 'new').

Likewise as denizens of 'the waters',
which many ancients believed filled
the heavens above - fish and watery
creatures were by sympathetic
magic conflated to be divine
symbolically.

I'm highly curious why the ancients
thought the way they did regarding
the 'cosmic waters' presumed to
be above.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Sometimes mythologists get carried away, the Feminine may in essence be substance in Metaphysical terms but certainly not structure, so remove Masculine archetypes and Kali isn't going to be standing over anyone or anything, mutual dependency is all important.


a reply to: Specimen

The Japanese have the Dogu creatures of the watery abyss which are actually the same creatures that form the basis of the Indian tradition of aquatic emergence, which weren't actually fish but more like amphibious mammals in terms of appearance.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Indeed.

I love the ying/yang symbol as it demonstrates that at the heart of the
feminine is the male (the dot) and at the heart of the male is the feminine
(the dot).

Now the universality of myth causes some to say that consciousness
is universal and thus myth; while that may be sufficient, that is not
actually necessary.

What is necessary is that the human brain (and whatever else we are
if anything) is roughly the same world round, and nature and animals
which were ever in front of the eye of the ancients were roughly
universal as well (air animals, water animals all in their same niche),
so add the two together, and you will get roughly the same kinds
of myths.

Add in travel, which was a bit more common than people may
realize and there you have 'universal myths' without a lot of
metaphysical baggage, which may or may not be true.

But of course the relationship between myth and 'truth',
other than the famous remark "mythology is truer than
truth' (more emotionally compelling and viral is what
that means to me) is most hard to ascertain.

Kevin

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Of course it's fun to fancifully take
myth 'straight up'. But s lot of folks
would call myth the surviving exoteric
form and then rattle on about the
supposed esoteric forms - the so
called inner alchemy argument.

For example in the Tantric traditions
the outer waters might map to the
'inner waters' such as amrit,
soma and retas. The boat could
correspond to various metaphysical
organs...

in the left hand path of Buddhism
you might reference the red and
white dots (also body fluids)
and might throw in a rainbow
body as a boat analog.

Are you into this kind of stuff or
just the 'exoteric tales'?

Kev

a reply to: Reverbs

I kno eh, the resemblance is almost uncanny.
What lines are you talking, the one with the Angel at the top and the fish between all the other figures on the first page?

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Reverbs

I kno eh, the resemblance is almost uncanny.
What lines are you talking, the one with the Angel at the top and the fish between all the other figures on the first page?

your picture above..

The "monks" hands are attached to the angels..
As are his feet,
As is his heart..

It's a good clue..

The other dude is reading a book and has no halo...

a reply to: Reverbs

I never noticed that in the picture since it quite faint till you pointed it out. The lines to connecting the feet are much more prominent then the lines connecting the upper body but I can see that. Maybe the idea of synchronization is being presented here in this picture of St.Francis and the angel in the picture, a Seraphim.


Also, how Vishnu and the Seraphim are presented kind of remind of how Djinn/Genies are portrayed with their ghostly legs being attached to a lamp, or maybe even a lantern?

Also does this still look like a fish?


This is definitely fishy...

a reply to: Specimen



Some of the lyrics are wrong, but anyway.

a reply to: Reverbs

Great, now I gotta whole another respect and reverence for goldfish, thinking they are guardian spirits, watching me, patiently, waiting to strike.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No i don't really have any interest in the mystical doctrines of physiology i prefer to look outward rather than inward i guess, i don't even like to think about what i'm into...just what i need to know.

I don't worry too much about myths being untrue because they will always reveal a truth at some level, and of course they tell us what others thought we needed to know...ever a need to know basis then.

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Reverbs

Great, now I gotta whole another respect and reverence for goldfish, thinking they are guardian spirits, watching me, patiently, waiting to strike.

LOL

watch out now..

scale ing the back of a giant fish story..
Fisherman men tell tall tails from the top,
of the bottom of the well,
oh well.

sry lack of sleep..
you made me laugh though.
thx.

cool song comparing your brain to a compartment.. It continues into two other parts called powdered water 1 and 2.
the fish is just an allegory in the song, much like this thread. The fish tank was his head. And the fish being able to move in 3d compared to the human stuck on the ground, was a way of saying the next freedom level "up." Oh and he was created in the fishes image.

"your mind is your own monster and if you take it away you're just a fish like me swimming in the powdered water."

it is relevant to the thread. I think
Here is all of it.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No i don't really have any interest in the mystical doctrines of physiology i prefer to look outward rather than inward i guess, i don't even like to think about what i'm into...just what i need to know.

I don't worry too much about myths being untrue because they will always reveal a truth at some level, and of course they tell us what others thought we needed to know...ever a need to know basis then.

;-)

Good answer.

Looking 'inward' is a trap in any case.. a golden chain..

Obsession with the 'self' which does not truly even exist
is the mental illness of our human species at the current
time;

all the woes of pandoras box flow out from this one
flawed tendency (of constructing 'selves').

I enjoy nearly all your posts.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear


all the woes of pandoras box flow out from this one
flawed tendency (of constructing 'selves').

I enjoy nearly all your posts.

Kev

You mean selves as bodies or as spirits or souls? Egos, or consciousnesses?

Sometimes people create selves as Teams. Countries. species..

Others (others I just made them small selves again).. Others might Identify with all of it all.. But then you can't have opinions and can't talk, and don't mind anything because, It IS what it IS..

I like to flow between different states. I like seeing how far I can get with me (not my ego me).. As in how big I can be as one, while still also being me. Just a game I play.



Can I stab you in the back now? It won't hurt, you don't have a self.
joking of course, but, you shouldn't mind.


actually loving other's as yourself lets other people exist and lets you not open pandora's box of woes...

The entire point of the Fish is to cross the Void without becoming the Void.






I mostly agree with the feel of your post, so, I don't know how to explain that after what I just said, so I will just star you and say good post.

a reply to: Reverbs

All selves are contextual.

So when the context changes, and
it does moment by moment, the
'self changes'.

This isn't just Buddhism and
metaphysics 101, it is basic
neurology.

Of course I'd hurt. But in 60
seconds it's a different person
hurting.

Kev
Kev2
Kev3
...