Remembering The U.S. Government's Secret Human Experiments

found this and my stomach turned.
link

originally posted by: Klassified
I'm not so sure that line of reasoning would be a comfort to the victims of these "justified" experiments on the population.

I think you're right, but it's another way to look at it. Make 1000 sick to save 100,000 over the next 50 years.

just been reading up on project 4.1 pretty disturbing what they did to the marshallese.

project 4.1

In 1963, 22 elderly patients at the Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in Brooklyn, New York were injected with live cancer cells by Chester M. Southam, who in 1952 had done the same to prisoners at the Ohio State Prison, in order to "discover the secret of how healthy bodies fight the invasion of malignant cells". The administration of the hospital attempted to cover the study up, but the New York medical licensing board ultimately placed Southam on probation for one year. Two years later, the American Cancer Society elected him as their Vice President.[51]

link

There are many known "studies", and makes you wonder of the unknown.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Klassified
I'm not so sure that line of reasoning would be a comfort to the victims of these "justified" experiments on the population.

I think you're right, but it's another way to look at it. Make 1000 sick to save 100,000 over the next 50 years.

Those people responsible could have easily asked people to offer themselves up for experimental treatments or programs, and even for payment. Plenty of people would allow themselves to be part of experimentation if they think they can be part of helping society. There is no excuse to experiment on those who have no idea what is happening to them. None.

a reply to: RobinB022

yeh i was thinking that, as kin some cases they did pay people . the amount of babies and pregnant women experiment on , totally un aware is horrific. makes me wonder what they actually put in my childhood inoculations!

a reply to: Klassified
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

"The real crazy ones were doing the experiments.
There's an irony overload."

Charlie, You hit another Nail right on Top!!



Good Thread Here Klassified!!

Such Tragedies expelled onto Humanity...
Will it ever end? (ChemTrails and Their Bio Warfare, Pollution, Etc...) ...

Alas... I'd Love to Take Flight of This Planet and Soar Away...

Yeah one of my fav threads on ATS is 'History of Secret experimentation on US citizens" or something like that. The formatting is messed up on it though

a reply to: butcherguy

I'm a little shocked that you don't know this. These are literally basics of government. But I'll answer anyway, not like I believe you'll accept the answers.

Which individual sets my rate of taxation?

Congress has 535 members, 100 in the Senate & 435 in the House of Representatives. They set your rate of taxation with a simple majority vote in each chamber, typically when passing a new fiscal budget. You do remember the Bush tax cuts right? You should probably go research the vastly different tax rates that have existed at different times in American history. Look at the tax rates under Reagan, for example.

Which individual in government can decide to abolish a law?

Depends on what kind of law it is. Any federal law can be changed by majority votes in Congress. State laws can be changed by the State Congresses. Rules & Regulations passed by specific agencies can be changed by the leaders in those agencies. Executive orders can be updated or overruled by other executive orders (or by the members of Congress if they want to override the President). Mayors, Governors, County Boards, School Boards, etc can also abolish some of their respective laws. The 9 members of the Supreme Court can abolish laws that conflict with their interpretation of the US Constitution.

But they can only abolish laws they have direct legal authority to abolish. That's why you can't blame a teacher (part of the government) for what the IRS does (part of the government). Or you can blame common soldiers (part of the government) for what an executive committee in the NSA does (also part of the government). It's called accountability.

If we were to try someone for biological testing that led to the deaths of person or persons, is there just one individual that is responsible, when this was done under the auspices of 'government'?

To try someone for human experiments, first you would have to find out which agency administered it. If it was a contractor, you find out which contractors & which agencies were supposed to oversee them. Then you do internal investigations to find out if it was it an official plan or a "rogue" agent, who was in charge of this plan, etc. You should probably look up the scandals surrounding Henry Kissinger to get a better idea of the process. You can also look into the links I listed earlier about the John Hopkins experiments & how the accountability ultimately fell on them, even though they were working a "government" contract.

I understood all of this when I was in elementary school, over 40 years ago. 535 individuals vote on a bill to enable passage into law. Which individual in the majority is responsible for the bill passing?

If you really understand this, why are you blaming everyone in government? There are several million federal government employees and several million state government employees. How can you blame everyone for the actions of 51-60 Senators (the number needed to pass something in the Senate)? You should look up the responsibilities of different high profile government jobs to get a better idea of who to blame for specific policies, such as the Attorney General, Director of the CIA, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of State, etc.

And then there were the not so secret experiments.

In the 1920's and 1930's, Eugenics was a completely legitimately practiced idea.

The idea that the NAZIs had of creating a "Master Race" came directly from the American Eugenics program.

The American Eugenics supporters thought that they could make the species better by breeding out undesirable traits. Sound familiar?

You know who's responsible for the bill passing when 535 people vote on it?

The Speaker of The House.

a reply to: babybunnies

Yep. That time period was atrocious in regards to human experiments and legal genocides. Even in America, there were mass sterilization programs against minorities, disabled people, people labeled "mentally retarded", prisoners (you'd be surprised how long this lasted in North Carolina), etc. Social Darwinism stated that those who couldn't function in society must have undesirable defects, so letting those undesirables die off would be better for the strength of the species. There are people who still believe this.

People talk about the Holocaust against the Jewish people, but never mention the 1.5 million Roma/Romani people killed the same way. Or the millions deliberately starved to death in the Hunger Plan. Or the Nazi human experiments. The European & Japanese empires also practiced mass genocides against the indigenous people in their colonies all the way through WWII. The Japanese empire did perhaps some of the worse human experiments in modern times.

originally posted by: RobinB022
Those people responsible could have easily asked people to offer themselves up for experimental treatments or programs, and even for payment. Plenty of people would allow themselves to be part of experimentation if they think they can be part of helping society. There is no excuse to experiment on those who have no idea what is happening to them. None.

Here's the problem: There's no ethical way to do some of this stuff. How do you ethically perform medical experiments on people in order to track the rate of birth defects caused by a particular chemical? That is very important information to know and you largely need real world data where you can't pick and choose people from all over the country, you have to expose towns and watch what happens. It's not fair to those people at all, but the alternative is not having the knowledge or the benefits of that knowledge and in the long run that harms far more people.

a reply to: enlightenedservant
I am shocked that you do not get my point.

You are asking me to blame individuals. There is NO individual to blame. That is the beauty of our government entity, they vote for a tax increase, yet when they run for office, they (the individual running for office) will show you where they voted for a tax cut!

No individual sets the rate of taxation.

The rates are set by a Congressional Committee, the Ways and Means Committee. A majority vote approves/disapproves their decision. I remember Dan Rostenkowski... do you?

Take me to school, eh?

You should look up the responsibilities of different high profile government jobs to get a better idea of who to blame for specific policies, such as the Attorney General, Director of the CIA, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of State, etc.

So... are you telling me that these positions are occupied by individuals with absolute power?
Once they are in there, they can do anything that they please, with no oversight by the rest of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch or the Judiciary? Really? You really think that?

a reply to: Aazadan

they still harvest organs from , Chinese activists and POW.

link

originally posted by: dingdongdoodah
a reply to: Aazadan

they still harvest organs from , Chinese activists and POW.

link

I'm sure they do. I try not to think about where black market organs are coming from, or even the ones hospitals use. It's a sad truth that I just can't deal with in day to day thoughts.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that there are farms, where humans are treated as cattle to be raised as forced organ donors. I'm quite sure these places already exist.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: Klassified

...and than some people laugh at conspiracy theories. To think no government in the world would dare to experiment on it's own citizens, engage in assassinations or plan false flag operations is being totally naïve. Just think of all the other secret experiments, government projects and cover-ups we don't know about.

Check this one out:

listverse.com...

I wouldn't be surprised if Ebola had something sinister going on whilst the "deny ignorance" crowd will try and shut down any possible discussion on a conspiracy theory site of all places. Just like they would with the examples in the OP if they had the chance.

Adding a link to a recent thread by Skeptic Overlord, that goes right along with this thread.
Declassified Video Shows U.S. Navy Chemical Weapons Tests on U.S. Citizens