Presidents Whom Owned Slaves: 4 Are on Currency

originally posted by: Wildmanimal
a reply to: iDope

HooHaa are you kidding?
To the 0.01 % We are all slaves.
Right Now, at this very Moment.
In the year of Our Lord 2015,
the majority of the population
of Planet Earth are slaves.

Quit being distracted by the
Divide and Conquer tactics
that are being employed to
confuse you/us from the facts
and matters at hand.

S&F for your research.
Yet if your as smart as I think
you are, I believe you have the ability
to come up with a truly pertinent topic.
Maybe consider modern day slavery /human trafficking/
income inequality/social injustice/ or propaganda for starters.
Best to You,

I have no doubt that we are slave in some fashion, well I don't have to say how many her because noone on this site is in the %1 or .01%. I am stating this for the reason that us "sheeple" should not fall for this propaganda, it is a way to erase history, for our children to never learn about our mistakes, for us to see and respect the hypocricy that is abundant. I get sooo F'N tired of trying to get my point of views across to those who don't have the patience to listen, and that is not you, it is those that wan't to argue but don't want to hear the argument. Such as certain faily members and peers of mine. So eager to discuss something that when information disregards their facts they can only say, "well Brian Williams said that racism ...turns milk into moldy cheese...when my helicopter crashed on some cows."

I would love to talk about oher subjects but I don't think many people realize what they are dealing with if they want to ban a flag, a flag that one of the victims wanted to be flown (supposedly). I will start burning every flag that isn't the stars and stripes becaus eit is racist against the country if so. Halloween flags? against Jesus, Easter bunny flags? Pagan. Christmas Presents? Pagan Consumerism. Random Flowers? Hippy non GMO tree huggers. I take offense to them. Ban All Flags. Wait...Waiit, did the shooter have clothing made in other county's besides U.S., must be their fault to for outfitting his terroristic act. Weapons of low thread count.

a reply to: iDope

Fair enough assessment and I'm starting to get a clearer picture of what you're getting at here.

Some groups are already calling for the boycott of the Stars and Stripes because they feel "offended". I kinda want to smack my head into a brick wall repeatedly because public education and homeschooling isn't working on so many levels, kids jump to these irrational conclusions with the best intentions but a poor argument of justification, and everything is happening so fast and furious it's hard to maintain one's sanity in the light of it all. As such, I apologize profusely for my initial irreverence in responding to your thread with my prior contributions as they were.

I read recently online that they were in talks to give Harriet Tubman a portraiture on the Twenty I think. I have no idea if that's moving forward or not, but I'm a bit of a collector of certain things and my first thought was - grab 'em when you see 'em and don't spend them if you ever get ahold of one kid! I'm pretty dead broke most of the time and I had to piece out my Susan B. Anthony's and Sacajawea dollars a long time ago. I've always regretted having to have done that, but sometimes food is more important than keepsakes.

Maybe we could give all Historical Personages of American Influence equal face time on modern monies? We could celebrate everyone from Eli Whitney and Edison to Ms Tubman and Martin Luther King and Chief Seattle and the Native Tribes and...well, you get the general idea. Everyone could purchase or trade their "unwanted imagery" in to the Mints in order to get their favorite American Heroes? I dunno....just a random thought. I don't know if Tesla would make the cut but I know my husband would totally dig on that idea.

Never, in all my years on this planet have I been able to wrap my head around racial disparages. In my eyes, there are nice people and there are mean people. That's it. Simple. I don't blame the actions of the bad on everyone fitting any sort of visual cue. I have lived in multi-cultural communities my entire life and met both beautiful people and ones I hope to never cross paths again with.

True Human Beings look one another in the eyes and communicate beyond class and cultural barriers. We've all known pain, unfairness, harsh treatment at the hands of others at some point in our lives. It saddens me beyond measure that there are those out there who either have dealt with such turmoil for so long that they are convinced that everyone is the enemy who fits a certain profile, or else that erasing one culture or groups history will somehow erase all hostilities.

I think the value is in proactive compromise. Where I live currently, there is a war memorial downtown for those soldiers who fought in the war on the Confederate side. The community here is currently discussing what action - if any - should be taken regarding this recent tragedy in South Carolina and the ensuing calls to arms over the Stars and Bars. Many people are adamant that the flag is of historical importance because they have ancestors who fought in the Civil War and that it bears no racist or "slaver" overtones....others are adamant that the symbol is that of oppression and hatred against others.

Having grown up in the South, I have seen people use and abuse their positions and stations of influence on every side of the fence imaginable. Once again, race isn't a determining factor...I've seen cruelty go both ways when it comes down to it....but in the interest of Goodwill and Humanitarian Efforts I don't think it would be harmful to take down and retire a public display of a symbol that has - unfortunately - been stripped of it's original connotations and been co-opted by hateful and violent individuals over the years.

...at least until we can all sit down together as AMERICANS and have an honest an open discussion about the the Past without letting it dictate our Present and Future.

If Violent Extremist Hate Groups have shown any trends over the years, they're gonna just co-opt the next symbolic thing they can to fly under the radar for as long as possible anyway. It's a sad reality as such, but that seems to be their general m.o. from what I've seen and I shan't elaborate further for space considerations.

The positive thing is that young persons are having these discussions and expressing their opinions and perspectives, and engaging in open debate on the issue. There is no doubt in my mind that symbols are very powerful things for a lot of folks out there - they can either bring us together in a beautiful way or pull us apart when there isn't positive communication.

America was founded upon democracy - equal voice and equal vote - I suppose those with the power to dictate the eventual fate of this particular issue are well aware of these principles and the broader considerations and concerns implicit.

May Peaceful Resolution Prevail.
Forever Forward Come What May and Hand in Hand.
Brothers and Sisters United by the Human Spirit.
In Peace or Come Hell and High Water.
A Brother and Sisterhood of Many Nations and Peoples.

UNITED WE STAND.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: iDope

I read no further than "delusional since her son...".

Thank you! As a mother who is all too familiar with the losing a child/ren, yeah, people probably think I am a bit nutty, due to trying to cope with something a mothers mind really can't cope with.

As for the OP, how many slaves do you own?slaveryfootprint.org...

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

but in the interest of Goodwill and Humanitarian Efforts I don't think it would be harmful to take down and retire a public display of a symbol that has - unfortunately - been stripped of it's original connotations and been co-opted by hateful and violent individuals over the years. AT least until we can all sit down together as AMERICANS and have an honest a

I a not trying to say that the swastika and bars and stars are similar, but the swastika goes back thousands of years, and deals with peace, yet when people see it now it deals with racism and hatred. I drew a picture about 5 years ago with the original backwards swawstika (as we know it today) and I almost was stabbed for srawing it, literally. It had nothing to do with racism or fascism, but the same reason someone would draw a pyamid or a spiral, it seeed mathematicaly perfect and beautiful to me, and it also dates back thousands of years before Hitler used it. Yet If I draw a swastika today I could easily be portrayed as a racist, facist, nazi sympathizer, etc, when it goes back much further. If a group of terrorists that only targeted single mothers and beheaded their children and placed their infant heads on a cross, and went by a a symbol of a black cross on a white flag, would the cross be banned? Would all Christianity have to change their emblem?

This is one of the points I am trying to suggest. Just like ISIS, the Egyptian God of Fertility and renewal, Related and associated with Osiris and RA, do we also change that history so it doesn't mix with today's influence? to be PC.

originally posted by: calstorm

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: iDope

I read no further than "delusional since her son...".

Thank you! As a mother who is all too familiar with the losing a child/ren, yeah, people probably think I am a bit nutty, due to trying to cope with something a mothers mind really can't cope with.

As for the OP, how many slaves do you own?slaveryfootprint.org...

Why can't a mother's mind cope with it? Can a Father's just the same? Miscarriages happen at an increasing rate, are you saying that women are increasingly becoming delusional?

What I am saying is that my aunt also quit her job, went into hiding and barely does anything, three years later. It is besides the point of the OP, but I am sharing how she ties herself up into news and what is displayed on TV because she does nothing else. She only argues what has been told for her to argue about, and I can defeat that every day. but it is sad to see it in her.

a reply to: iDope

I'm going to be honest....I have a stylized swastika on my arm surrounded by a Lotus Flower. I did so because the literal Sanskrit translation of the word swastika means "to be well". I needed a gentle and healing image to help me through times when I find myself in inpatient stays without so much as my wedding band to keep me focused.

Getting a tattoo seemed the most reasonable manner by with to keep a symbolic reminder of health and well-being come what may. It's a layover from my studies of the Vedas in my twenties. I'm still learning because it's such an intensive and in-depth culture that goes back so very long in it's recorded texts and philosophies. I may never fully explore all it's incarnations.

Oddly enough, the last time I was in the hospital, a young boy (who was African-American) came up to me and asked what my tattoo meant. I told him the origins of the word, and how the motion of the arms represented everything from collecting water to tilling the fields, and the cycles of Brahmani Creation and Destruction, depending on direction and willful intent.

He was very polite and thanked me for explaining.
Most people just jump to worst case scenario conclusions and start attacking.


Unfortunately, I have run into other persons who think just because bear that symbol that I am some sort of "white power whatever have you nonsense" and somehow "on their side". Their history doesn't really go back any further than a high school textbook. It's sad.

I have listened to more nasty things than I care to reiterate here, and when such discussions arise I do my best to remain polite and considerate of their perspectives because we all need to vent sometimes and I never judge another person especially not when they're letting off steam about things they've dealt with regarding those types of people who just make things harder on all of us for whatever reason....so many people have gone through so much pain and persecution for all manner of things the least I can do is listen sympathetically to them and offer a bit of beauty and hope and positive perspective when possible.

My husband was punished severely for drawing the same imagery on his graph paper in high school while working out visual mathematical variations of symmetry. He wasn't even thinking about Nazi Ideology but the teachers and staff flipped out and accused him of every horrible name in the book and wouldn't accept his explanation as truth because of their educational "authority". After all, they were adults, right? Adults are automatically right about everything 100% of the time about everything? Oh my gods don't get me started on that tirade!

Anyway, he was picked on and bullied so much by his classmates and the institutionalized prejudice against him because he was - (according to them) - "just a poor white kid with nothing valuable to offer society and a closet neo-nazi racist". It got so intolerable at school that he dropped out just to get away from the insanity. Stopped playing violin, stopped his drafting classes and just gave up on anything to do with that entire town and their rabid hatred. He's still suffering from that type of treatment from all angles and rarely leaves the house because of it.

His future and faith in people was destroyed early on. What if we were able to stop that from happening to another sensitive brilliant child? Maybe we'd find a cure for cancer or alternative fuels or.....the possibilities are endless. But I digress somewhat.

Also....(sorry I'm totally rambling right now)

The fact that the Goddess Isis has been co-opted by militant radicals saddens me as well. Egyptian history and mythology is absolutely fascinating and full of so much beauty and mystery that I can barely wrap my head around the level of awesome that they brought forth into the Ancient World. I adore meeting people who have a keen grasp of cultures that extends beyond a hyperbolic paragraph or two talking all sorts of nastiness and persecution and he said she said they did nonsense because horror stories get a rise out of some groups and they love to keep war fires burning at every turn possible.

Even some of those who claim Political Correctness fall victim to the same hypocrisy they're trying to stamp out with radical and intolerant preaching and calls to arms over the smallest trifle of things. I've seen people get absolutely irate over a picture of a freaking pomegranate on certain websites because they have "bad associations" with that fruit and claim it "triggers their PSTD".

I mean, come on and for real? Either they'r totally trolling because they're so bored they've started making mountains out of molehills or else they spend so much time surrounding themselves with self-diagnostics in order to feign an illness to avoid responsibility and get a free ride on the public dole.

I think this recent upsurge of Hyper-PC activity is the result of too much free time brought upon the majority of out of work Americans who have no sense of personal direction, but actively feel that they can "change the world" by harping on incessantly about banning pomegranates.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe it's just hyper-vigilant idealism - and good for them for caring - but unfortunately when it comes to Proper Social Activism and Proper Technique, these kids are hardwired for the freaking nuthouse....and it's bleeding over to some of the adults as well.

I know we, as a Nation, are in a great period of flux and transition right now....but we can only move so fast in covering all the bases when it comes down to the PC movement. It's just s shame sometimes that they very behaviors they're seeking to eliminate become the platforms by which they themselves operate.

We can take signs and flags down left and right, all day and all night.....we can write revisions for schoolbooks every new year, but no matter how much we try to accommodate everyone's individual preferences and sensibilities into the shared common landscape - someone will always find fault in something that doesn't suit their aesthetics and tastes.

Where does it end?

I mean don't get me wrong, I genuinely want the American Landscape to be kind and gentle and accommodating to all persons regardless of this, that or what have you....but at what expense is this makeover going to come at?

Legions of Future American Citizens who aren't able to cope with anything because they're strung out over everything?

I mean yeah, I have my own sensitivities as well but I don't get furious and angry over things and start demanding the world change every single instance of artistic representation just because I find something within it that affects me adversely. I learn to adapt and deal with my own weaknesses and freaking get over bad mental associations and replace them with understanding and deeper positive insight.

Most rational people do the same thing, some go inward - others go outward.
We're seeing a huge surge of the latter types.

My gods.

No wonder the pharmaceutical industry is in full tilt!
This is insane!



(Sorry about the long-winded rambling....)

So lets say for a moment that smoking pot is legal. Doesn't matter what you substitute there...just using pot as a hypothetical. Some people smoke it...some don't. Then, a few years from now pot is made illegal. So...do you then, when pot is illegal go back and condemn people who smoked it when it was legal? Of course not. How many President's wives couldn't vote in the past? Are they bad people too?

What do they say about hindsight? This is all getting ridiculous. If someone follows the rules of law, and then the law changes, you can't go back and call them guilty of something that wasn't illegal.

And I'll take that one step further. If someone does something illegal today and it gets legalized a few years from now...I say they are still guilty not because of the specific act, but of breaking the law at the time.

originally posted by: iDope
As an introduction to why I am making this thread, it has to revolve around the idea to ban the Confederate Flag, Civil War History, Southern Heritage, etc.

None of this is happening. Banning is not happening. The first amendment is intact.

People who owned slaves when slavery was legal and socially acceptable are not at issue. The confederate flag represents TO SOME a war fought for the right to keep slaves as it was becoming socially unacceptable.

If we live in a free nation, as we are led to believe, why can't anyone fly a flag that resonates with them?

THEY CAN!

I understand that many people through out history owned slaves as it was free labor for the most part. Many didn't resonate with the ideal of owning human beings but it was the prosperous thing to do at the time, I mean what company wouldn't love free labor? But how can we glorify those that did?

They are not glorified FOR OWNING slaves. They are on currency because they were an important part of our history, not because they happened to own slaves when it was legal and considered moral by the society of the time.

How can one argue that the Confederate Flag should be banned, burned, berrated, removed from history etc.

I don't know of ANYONE who is arguing that. If they are, it's just an opinion and not a threat.

a reply to: iDope

Doesn't seem to stop the drug dealers.

a reply to: iDope

I am opposed to the idea of banning the flag, BUT I think all free men should recognize that the Southern aristocrats were people who believed in enslaving other people for profit…AND spreading this idea as far as possible, even though it actually hurts the economy and trades. Even Biblically, slave owners were lying to themselves that they did not have to free their slaves after 7 years, as required by the OT Laws… and many slave-holders regretted slavery on their death-beds, which might explain why some Founders freed their slaves on theirs:


"If slaveholders are permitted to take their slaves into Nebraska and Kansas, the inequality and injury are to the free white men of the North and the South who go there without slaves…

The effect of slave labor is always to cheapen, degrade, and exclude free labor… The introduction of slavery will retard the prosperity of the State. Slave labor converts the richest soil into barrenness; free labor causes fertility and vegetation to spring from the very rock."

--Richard Yates, House of Representatives, Illinois, Sounding Forth the trumpet p. 376

What cracks me up (and confuses me a bit) is how everyone's bashing the South. When....prior to the Civil War the North owned slaves too. And if you read the Emancipation Proclamation (1863) carefully you will notice that Lincoln was freeing the slaves IN THE REBELLIOUS STATES, which he had no control over at the time. And where did all these slaves come from? Captured and sold to traders by AFRICANS. If you go far enough back, everyone has been oppressed by someone else at some point.

Slavery is obviously super messed up, but it was the way of the times. After the Civil War when all the slaves were free a lot of them CHOSE to remain on their plantations doing the exact same jobs as they did before. Only they were given tokens in exchange for their work and could use the tokens to buy things at the plantation store.

AND the stars and bars that everyone recognizes wasn't even the Confederate flag! It was a battle flag. The real flag has a blue field like the US flag but with 7 stars in a circle and then 2 red stripes and a white stripe instead of the 13 stripes.

People are so ignorant it drives me nuts. See Answer's thread about 'You are being manipulated'. The reason all this flag hoopla is going on (and possibly the shooting in the first place) is because the Trans Pacific Partnership just got fast tracked. They need people looking at one hand while they're doing something shady with the other.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It is an issue: Confederate cemeteries and monuments are being vandalized. A police officer was fired because he posted a pic of himself wearing Dixie cross boxers (stupid on his part I will fully admit, but unless he went on a racist tirade to go along with the pic this was an overreaction and a violation of his First Amendment rights)

Herd mentality is causing people to flip the f**k out.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
What cracks me up (and confuses me a bit) is how everyone's bashing the South. When....prior to the Civil War the North owned slaves too. And if you read the Emancipation Proclamation (1863) carefully you will notice that Lincoln was freeing the slaves IN THE REBELLIOUS STATES, which he had no control over at the time. And where did all these slaves come from? Captured and sold to traders by AFRICANS. If you go far enough back, everyone has been oppressed by someone else at some point.

Slavery is obviously super messed up, but it was the way of the times. After the Civil War when all the slaves were free a lot of them CHOSE to remain on their plantations doing the exact same jobs as they did before. Only they were given tokens in exchange for their work and could use the tokens to buy things at the plantation store.

AND the stars and bars that everyone recognizes wasn't even the Confederate flag! It was a battle flag. The real flag has a blue field like the US flag but with 7 stars in a circle and then 2 red stripes and a white stripe instead of the 13 stripes.

People are so ignorant it drives me nuts. See Answer's thread about 'You are being manipulated'. The reason all this flag hoopla is going on (and possibly the shooting in the first place) is because the Trans Pacific Partnership just got fast tracked. They need people looking at one hand while they're doing something shady with the other.

I happen to agree with you but love where you said "Slavery is obviously super messed up". The key word being "is". At the time, in those days...it wasn't. At the time, taking land from Indians wasn't messed up nor was dropping a huge bomb on Japan. At the time going to war in Iraq wasn't messed up and at a time women and blacks not being allowed to vote wasn't messed up. Today...maybe a different story.

But what we did in the past, in a different time is just that...the past. Same as you can't go back and sue a doctor from ten years ago for doing a surgery that today looks like butchery due to technical advances...you can't go back and judge people because the times have changed. For the better? Up for discussion but in general...yes.

I understand what is going on, and that scares me. We are knee-jerking, we are not thinking logically and we are supporting an idea that will ultimately destroy us all. That is that anything that offends anyone needs to be terminated and that history isn't important. What do they say...those who don't learn history are bound to repeat it? We are going in the right general direction, but we are going to extremes and following the dream of a utopia that is based upon untruths, lies and that is opposed to logic.

America is being destroyed and recent events signal a ramp-up in the speed to which it will fall. My prediction...especially if another "progressive" gets into office...no American flag, people who support themselves will be demonized, people who solve problems instead of symptoms will be called bigots and America will become Russia. You may see in your lifetime a President that acts as a King...ruling as they want as opposed to as the people want (may already be there) and a government that enslaves the citizens. Maybe worse than Russia.

Ban the President!!! That office represents the painful memory of slavery!

While we're at it, how many members of Congress owned slaves in the past? Maybe we can ban them too...

a reply to: iDope

Ugh, these confederate flag threads never end. Just goes to show ya how much attention many of us on ATS pay attention to the media and those that follow it blindly.

First of all, is it really being banned or are we still upset some stores are no longer selling it?

Are we all aware the confederate flag we know now isn't the original flag? The one no longer being sold at some retail stores was born out of pure racism against black people during the Truman era and well into the civil rights era. It's that simple. So why the big to do? The American currency wasn't born out of racism so I'll be just fine with it in my pocket. In fact, I couldn't care less about whether this flag is sold or not, but I'm a damn Yankee so...

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
Ban the President!!! That office represents the painful memory of slavery!

While we're at it, how many members of Congress owned slaves in the past? Maybe we can ban them too...

Or as someone else said recently...ban cotton.

originally posted by: iDope

originally posted by: calstorm

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: iDope

I read no further than "delusional since her son...".

Thank you! As a mother who is all too familiar with the losing a child/ren, yeah, people probably think I am a bit nutty, due to trying to cope with something a mothers mind really can't cope with.

As for the OP, how many slaves do you own?slaveryfootprint.org...

Why can't a mother's mind cope with it? Can a Father's just the same? Miscarriages happen at an increasing rate, are you saying that women are increasingly becoming delusional?

What I am saying is that my aunt also quit her job, went into hiding and barely does anything, three years later. It is besides the point of the OP, but I am sharing how she ties herself up into news and what is displayed on TV because she does nothing else. She only argues what has been told for her to argue about, and I can defeat that every day. but it is sad to see it in her.

I want to vomit over your lack of empathy, and your attempt to twist my words. My entire life was being the best mother I could be to my children. They died because of judge, who was disbarred a little to late for my kids, forced me to allow their dad to drive drunk with them. So, yes, I can understand what your aunt is going through. It's called do what ever you can to distract yourself form the grief. No, I am not in a place where I can work right now either. I have been known to break down in line at the grocery store because a child reminded me of my own. Someday are ok, other days I find in near impossible to go out in public and see parents with their kids who don't realize they need to cherish their kids more because life is fragile.

I don't judge your aunt. Let her grieve in peace. It's been a little over a year and a half for me, but it still feels like it just happened. I hope you never have to experience the pain of losing a child. If you are any kind of decent human being you'll go out and get your aunt a card or gift, just to let her know you are thinking of her and care that she is still in pain. Even f you don't feel it.

a reply to: iDope

That's it, I'm burning my money, everyone burn your money.

originally posted by: thesaneone
Technically the presidents still own slaves.

We The People.

it's true

I have deja vu